Oasis of the Seas Person overboard

[BeagleOne]

Someone did touch a little bit on this earlier .. and its something I wondered about too -- why isn't this guy's partner more of a focus in this investigation ?

 

After all he WAS in the same cabin as this guy who jumped off his balcony ... and the jumper was screaming something like "its because of you that I'm out here ..."

 

Seems pretty suspicious to me that this dude is off that ship and suing already ... when he could have been involved.

 

Good point, although I think the man who was screaming was the surviving husband, not the jumper. By "you" I was thinking he was referring to the crew members who came to the cabin...but he could have been referring to his husband (the one on the davit).

Edited November 8, 2015 by BeagleOne

[A&L_Ont]

It should be locked. Not because of him, but this thread is done, imo.

 

Only the mods will determine when it is done, otherwise it will slide down the boards when it is no longer relevant. If one chooses to click on it , it is there own choice.:)

[renech]

Ummm .. youre kidding, right ? Indefinitely cancel subsequent sailings of a 5,400 passenger ship that some damn fool elected to jump off on his own ... ?

 

Come on now.

 

(And .. how do you "ground" a ship anyway?)

 

Wow. I'm not sure how to take your response.

 

I would think that the investigation requirements over the death of a fellow human being would prioritize over the ship leaving on time the next day.

[Fury1995]

Someone did touch a little bit on this earlier .. and its something I wondered about too -- why isn't this guy's partner more of a focus in this investigation ?

 

After all he WAS in the same cabin as this guy who jumped off his balcony ... and the jumper was screaming something like "its because of you that I'm out here ..."

 

Seems pretty suspicious to me that this dude is off that ship and suing already ... when he could have been involved.

 

Why would his husband be a focus of this?

 

All accounts including the statement issued by Royal Caribbean have said that cruise staff (whether security or otherwise) were present when he went over the railing. That should indicate that Mr. Albaz was witnessed by at least one crew member and was present with both spouses prior to Mr. Albaz going over.

 

The "dude" is angry and his husband is presumed dead. He witnessed it, of course he is angry and want to lash out and blame someone or something.

 

Of course lawyers are all over this. Who doesn't remember George Smith.. I was here when that went on FOREVER on this board.

[F27TW]

Wow. I'm not sure how to take your response.

 

I would think that the investigation requirements over the death of a fellow human being would prioritize over the ship leaving on time the next day.

 

Clearly you're wrong.

 

And there is no reason for an entire ship load of passengers to have their cruise disrupted because of the choice made by this man.

 

Plus, they could always send investigators along with the ship. What would holding the ship in port accomplish ? This man's dead body isn't going to be found anywhere on the ship anyway. He's been chopped up by a propeller or chewed up by sharks by now anyway.

 

Cancel the next sailing? Please. :rolleyes:

[nelblu]

Wow. I'm not sure how to take your response.

 

I would think that the investigation requirements over the death of a fellow human being would prioritize over the ship leaving on time the next day.

 

Reality check.

[cello56]

We all need to remember that while many of us have viewed the YouTube video shot by another passenger from what looks to be their balcony, RCI most definitely has video too. Shot from likely a better angle. Of course they are not able to share that with media, but you can bet they will use it in any potential court case. They also likely have footage of any altercations that took place too.

[chengkp75]

 

Of course a full inquiry of actual facts is needed to get to the bottom of what actually happened that resulted in this man's death. I'm no investigator, but I would think that will take quite a while. I'm wondering if they ground the ship until this is done? Anyone know if it's the Miami police who are in charge of this kind of onboard investigation?

 

Some one said the Broward Sherriff was lead, but I think the FBI is the lead agency, as Broward would only have jurisdiction if it happened within the 12 mile limit of home port.

 

There is no need to stop the ship. There is no physical evidence needed from the ship, the crew is available for statements, and will return in a week, the ship's surveillance video will be made available, and technically the death did not happen on the ship. The Feds may put a couple of investigators onboard to continue taking statements, but unless there is something broken like a balcony railing that contributed to the man falling overboard, there is no "crime scene" needing the ship to remain in port.

[pinguy]

We all need to remember that while many of us have viewed the YouTube video shot by another passenger from what looks to be their balcony, RCI most definitely has video too. Shot from likely a better angle. Of course they are not able to share that with media, but you can bet they will use it in any potential court case. They also likely have footage of any altercations that took place too.

 

When I toured the bridge of the Oasis two days ago, an officer told me there are over 1500 cameras on board and they can cover almost every square inch of the public areas of the ship.

[Fury1995]

We all need to remember that while many of us have viewed the YouTube video shot by another passenger from what looks to be their balcony, RCI most definitely has video too. Shot from likely a better angle. Of course they are not able to share that with media, but you can bet they will use it in any potential court case. They also likely have footage of any altercations that took place too.

 

Probably looks something similar to this:

 

[Alison9899]

I was actually at the Solarium and there was no fight. It was half empty. I got back to my cabin right when the Oscar Oscar Oscar went out so not even sure how they made it back to their room for this all to unfold so quickly.

 

I am not a lawyer but call this ambulance chasing at its finest.

[renech]

Clearly you're wrong.

 

And there is no reason for an entire ship load of passengers to have their cruise disrupted because of the choice made by this man.

 

Plus, they could always send investigators along with the ship. What would holding the ship in port accomplish ? This man's dead body isn't going to be found anywhere on the ship anyway. He's been chopped up by a propeller or chewed up by sharks by now anyway.

 

Cancel the next sailing? Please. :rolleyes:

 

I don't believe I said "cancel" the sailing, however I was wondering about the physical investigation that seems warranted in this type of situation.

 

Your descriptive comment about the deceased is unnecessarily crude.

[renech]

Some one said the Broward Sherriff was lead, but I think the FBI is the lead agency, as Broward would only have jurisdiction if it happened within the 12 mile limit of home port.

 

There is no need to stop the ship. There is no physical evidence needed from the ship, the crew is available for statements, and will return in a week, the ship's surveillance video will be made available, and technically the death did not happen on the ship. The Feds may put a couple of investigators onboard to continue taking statements, but unless there is something broken like a balcony railing that contributed to the man falling overboard, there is no "crime scene" needing the ship to remain in port.

 

Very informative. Thank you for your response.

[Tura Lura]

It sounds like the husband is blaming whoever separated them, pulling him out of the room, for the other man going overboard. Perhaps thinking if he had remained in the room he could have had influence over keeping him from going over the balcony. I'm sure he feels horrible, thinking he could have somehow prevented this if he hadn't been out of the room.

[Aquahound]

Some one said the Broward Sherriff was lead, but I think the FBI is the lead agency, as Broward would only have jurisdiction if it happened within the 12 mile limit of home port.

 

There is no need to stop the ship. There is no physical evidence needed from the ship, the crew is available for statements, and will return in a week, the ship's surveillance video will be made available, and technically the death did not happen on the ship. The Feds may put a couple of investigators onboard to continue taking statements, but unless there is something broken like a balcony railing that contributed to the man falling overboard, there is no "crime scene" needing the ship to remain in port.

 

There's actually a little known Florida law called Stepansky, coined by case law from the Appeals Court (State v. Matthew Stepansky). The court upheld a Florida law that basically says certain state statutes can be applied to cruises that both start and end in the state of Florida. So as long as this didn't occur in the waters of a foreign state....as long as it occurred in Florida waters or on the high seas, the state can take lead if necessary. Typically, the state is better suited for death cases anyways. All of this is backed up by the U.S. Special Maritime and Territorial Jurisdiction (SMTJ) that grants jurisdiction to the next port of call.

 

As you know, jurisdictions can be confusing and sometimes cross but in this case, I can see how Broward County can have a stake based on Stepansky.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Aquahound

[A&L_Ont]

We all need to remember that while many of us have viewed the YouTube video shot by another passenger from what looks to be their balcony, RCI most definitely has video too. Shot from likely a better angle. Of course they are not able to share that with media, but you can bet they will use it in any potential court case. They also likely have footage of any altercations that took place too.

 

I've been thinking about that as well. It would show how the deceased ended up, ironically, on life boat. Did they climb over or where the pushed onto it? Were they on it prior to security even knocking on their door, for example? Did the altercation happen at the bar? Was the one spouse solo in the cabin while the other was out? Their video will provide answers to these type of questions.

 

There are so many things that will never reach the public's, unless this goes to trial. Most likely RC insurance provider will settle well before this gets to the court, as that will be cheaper than the lawyers fees. Unless the spouse that is alive had mor to do with how their husband onto the life raft.

 

I think we all know a couple who has an reactionary spouse or mate. We personally know one couple that just loves to fight with one another. Some are more reactionary than others, and perhaps this couple had one that was over the top?

 

No one ever just falls off of their balcony. However, this man ended up on the life raft by some means. Whatever the case, it is an unfortunate story.

[yj2cute]

It sounds like the husband is blaming whoever separated them, pulling him out of the room, for the other man going overboard. Perhaps thinking if he had remained in the room he could have had influence over keeping him from going over the balcony. I'm sure he feels horrible, thinking he could have somehow prevented this if he hadn't been out of the room.

 

This is the way I'm taking it as well. It's been stated that a domestic dispute was going on in their cabin, which a neighbor called security about. It was going on on the balcony. Maybe the victim had already threatened to go overboard, and his partner was trying to physically restrain him from doing so. When security came and forced the partner away from the balcony, is when the victim went over. He said security was to blame because they made him come to the door. I realize now the partner was doing all that yelling from the balcony. Originally I thought he was down at the rail with the victim, but we was above on his balcony yelling for them to hold on to him. That's why he's heard so clearly on the tape. She was only a few cabins down.

[xxHadleyxx]

This is the way I'm taking it as well. It's been stated that a domestic dispute was going on in their cabin, which a neighbor called security about. It was going on on the balcony. Maybe the victim had already threatened to go overboard, and his partner was trying to physically restrain him from doing so. When security came and forced the partner away from the balcony, is when the victim went over. He said security was to blame because they made him come to the door. I realize now the partner was doing all that yelling from the balcony. Originally I thought he was down at the rail with the victim, but we was above on his balcony yelling for them to hold on to him. That's why he's heard so clearly on the tape. She was only a few cabins down.

 

That sounds very possible, and would just be so very horrific for that poor surviving spouse. Doesn't make security in the wrong for how they responded, but it sure would be heartbreaking (well, no matter what led to this, it must be heartbreaking and horrible for the spouse).

 

I know on our Splendour cruise last week we were friendly with people in a cabin next to one where someone was "held" in their interior cabin with security outside for 24 hours. We were told he got upset and threatened to go overboard and they do not mess around with that or risk it being a joke. (we did not witness this, only heard about it second hand--but I believe it).

 

It must be so hard if someone is already at that point, and at the rail, when staff arrive and are trying to take stock of a loud, difficult to read situation. I am sure everyone involved will deal with guilt and second guessing actions and wishing they could have done more.

[UK Cruiser2]

This is the way I'm taking it as well. It's been stated that a domestic dispute was going on in their cabin, which a neighbor called security about. It was going on on the balcony. Maybe the victim had already threatened to go overboard, and his partner was trying to physically restrain him from doing so. When security came and forced the partner away from the balcony, is when the victim went over. He said security was to blame because they made him come to the door. I realize now the partner was doing all that yelling from the balcony. Originally I thought he was down at the rail with the victim, but we was above on his balcony yelling for them to hold on to him. That's why he's heard so clearly on the tape. She was only a few cabins down.

 

"She was only a few cabins down" was there a woman involved,I thought it was two males ?

[Reader0108598]

"She was only a few cabins down" was there a woman involved,I thought it was two males ?

 

The lady filming and yelling "Stop yelling, let them work"

 

Reader

[Fury1995]

"She was only a few cabins down" was there a woman involved,I thought it was two males ?

 

 

There was someone earlier in this thread that was onboard. She stated she was a few cabins away on the same deck.

 

We are also on board - we were at Sorrentinos having some late night (early morning) pizza that we didn't really need when the "Oscar-Oscar-Oscar-port side" call came over. I knew immediately what that was and said to my wife let's go upstairs to our cabin on Deck 7 to see what's going on. As we approached the port aft elevators we saw crew members running out the doors to where the lifeboats are. When we got upstairs, there was a ruckus in our hallway about 5 cabins down (we are in 7224 and project the family to be in a cabin between 7212-7216) - it was the family - the wife (we think) wanted to go back outside to watch rescue operations but they wouldn't let them in the cabin. There were some other words said - we thought security accused someone of "pushing" the victim - maybe the father - but it's unclear if they meant a physical push or a fight which emotionally "pushed" the victim to jump over.

 

When we got in our cabin, they were releasing the port side rescue boat just below and left of us. It took them a few minutes to get the boat down and they immediately zoomed over to a beacon (life ring?) out off port side aways. The water was somewhat choppy and it was pretty dark (some cloud cover at times and littl if any moon light). The rescue boat from starboard side was visible to us about 5 minutes later. We stayed up as the ship went slowly back and forth - turning 180 degrees every 10-15 minutes or so.

 

I did see the video this morning. Tough to watch. Tough night. Not a ton of sleep, although I got more than my wife.

 

Alex

 

The other woman mentioned could be the woman who was taping with her cell phone. She was above the two.

Edited November 8, 2015 by Fury1995

[lyss77]

http://www.nuggetsworld.com/?p=89

 

from someone on the ship witnessing 1 level below the bridge.

[disneylover89]

It sounds like the husband is blaming whoever separated them, pulling him out of the room, for the other man going overboard. Perhaps thinking if he had remained in the room he could have had influence over keeping him from going over the balcony. I'm sure he feels horrible, thinking he could have somehow prevented this if he hadn't been out of the room.

 

That is how I interpreted it to be too. That is why the spouse was not arrested. His husband jumped on his own and the security crew saw that.

[chengkp75]

There's actually a little known Florida law called Stepansky, coined by case law from the Appeals Court (State v. Matthew Stepansky). The court upheld a Florida law that basically says certain state statutes can be applied to cruises that both start and end in the state of Florida. So as long as this didn't occur in the waters of a foreign state....as long as it occurred in Florida waters or on the high seas, the state can take lead if necessary. Typically, the state is better suited for death cases anyways. All of this is backed up by the U.S. Special Maritime and Territorial Jurisdiction (SMTJ) that grants jurisdiction to the next port of call.

 

As you know, jurisdictions can be confusing and sometimes cross but in this case, I can see how Broward County can have a stake based on Stepansky.

 

Thanks, my investigative friend. Learn something new everyday. Interesting that the Feds allowed that to stand, with state trumping federal.

[Fury1995]

That is how I interpreted it to be too. That is why the spouse was not arrested. His husband jumped on his own and the security crew saw that.

 

I'm not entirely convinced the husband saw this.

 

It seems from his reaction in the video and the actions he is taking post incident that leads me to believe he possibly was not witness to how exactly his husband physically came to be on the life boat support.

 

It would make sense as to why he is reacting the way he is. If the cruiseline security does indeed show Mr. Albaz climbing the rail on his own accord and placing himself on the life boat support, it may calm things down.

 

I don't believe he has been presented any video of the events yet. Royal's legal council and the authorities are probably vetting the video first.