Princesss fined $40 million for pollution

[billco]

The underlying morality of this crime is what is most disturbing. Princess touts themselves as environmentally friendly. They proudly declare it every time we as passengers assemble for the muster drill.

 

This revelation is a blatant betrayal of trust to both patrons and shareholders

 

I'll try to restrain myself from a loud BOO!at the next muster drill I attend.

[chengkp75]

When I was on Regal transatlantic this year as we were about to have a sanitation inspection at 8am all the coffeemakers in the HC were out of service with a sanitizing cycle going on and placards marked do not use hung on them.

Crew said the machines were a favorite target for inspection and often failed so they rendered them inoperable.

 

That doesn't really work. If the equipment is installed, it must be functional, or it becomes an observation on the inspection, and details of what is wrong with it, how long its been out of service, when the repair is expected to be completed, why it hasn't been completed to date, and when required but not on hand parts are to be delivered. If equipment is to be down for extended times, it must be removed, shrink wrapped, marked as under repair, and stored away, not in food prep or service areas.

[JimmyVWine]

Somebody needs to be made an example out of! I hope they get it and get it good!

I suspect they already did. The consent judgment and the fine are the tail end of the story. But I am sure that Princess/Carnival has been handling its internal affairs throughout this entire mess. They wouldn't keep the offending employees around until the time of the guilty plea and then discipline them. They would discipline them first, if for no other reason than to show the DOJ that they are taking this matter seriously, taking critical steps to address the problem, and making corporate changes for the better. All of this would factor into the ultimate fines, penalties, probationary periods, etc.

[Skai]

it especially surprises me that a cruise line would do this today, since as a whole they are far and away better than most cargo ship operators in environmental compliance.

 

Understood.

[Musky Ike]

It's too late to cancel now, but I wish that we had not booked with Princess. I feel like it will be a long time (if ever) before I will want to "come back" again...

 

I had a similar initial thought. Now upon refection, I think that in light of the ongoing compliance inspections in this settlement, Princess (CCL) is now in compliance on this issue for the near future. Other lines, I just don't know about their practices and cannot believe their promises. Princess lied. So the ethical dilemma is to give up cruising entirely or continue to support a former violator. Tough call either way. We will continue to sail Princess for now.

[El Crucero]

In the same way that every time you drive a car you are contributing to pollution,

 

Not necessarily. I drive an electric car and I produce my own electricity via solar panels on the roof of my house.

[JimmyVWine]

I had a similar initial thought. Now upon refection, I think that in light of the ongoing compliance inspections in this settlement, Princess (CCL) is now in compliance on this issue for the near future. Other lines, I just don't know about their practices and cannot believe their promises. Princess lied. So the ethical dilemma is to give up cruising entirely or continue to support a former violator. Tough call either way. We will continue to sail Princess for now.

 

This is exactly where I come out. If I modified my behavior today based on violations that corporations committed in the past, there is virtually no product or service that I could purchase or consume in good conscience. The "magic pipe" at sea is no different than the outflow pipe to the Passaic River, or the illegal landfill in Toledo, or the midnight dumping in Palo Alto. Every Fortune 500 company has a long list of environmental sins in its past. All we can do is hope that they have changed their behavior. If we learn that present practices are still inappropriate, then we can act. Right now, I don't have any reason to believe that Princess is non-compliant. If I were to find out that they are, I'd be done with them. But boycotting a company for past violations means that you could never buy a car or a pharmaceutical product, just to name a couple.

[mugtech]

I'm just guessing, but wonder whose cruise fares will be increasing!:rolleyes:

 

Where else is the $40m coming from?

[azbirdmom]

Somebody needs to be made an example out of! I hope they get it and get it good!

 

It's already happened per the Princess FAQ's posted yesterday:

 

How could this have happened, and why would your employees do this?

We believe these actions were taken to save time and that those involved thought they were saving the company money, but since they violated our policies and the law it was not savings we incentivized, directed, nor approved.

The senior officers involved have been fired

.

 

Their entire statement is posted here: http://www.princess.com/news/notices_and_advisories/cbresponse/

[Musky Ike]

If Princess lied about this,,,,,,what else are they lying about but just haven't been caught yet?

 

True for all. They are all "sorry" when caught.

[thinfool]

Where else is the $40m coming from?

 

The money will come from Carnival Corp coffers. It has very deep pockets.

 

To any large corporation these days, this is the cost of doing business. Look at the astronomical fines paid by Volkswagen, BP, Wells Fargo.

 

Missing from many posts on this thread is an insight into corporate/executive mindset. Just from the list above it is not hard to conclude that the mindset is to lie to the consumer, screw the environment and retire with a golden parachute.

 

Corporate morality and ethics is that there is no morality and ethics. Read up on the history of the oil companies, steel companies, timber companies, railroads.

 

Finally, the illegal activities that brought about this fine for Princess ended about 3 years ago when they were brought to light. There is no way that Princess or any Carnival line was just caught a couple of days ago. There is little doubt that they have been like choir boys for the last 3 years or so.

Edited December 2, 2016 by thinfool

[mugtech]

I had a similar initial thought. Now upon refection, I think that in light of the ongoing compliance inspections in this settlement, Princess (CCL) is now in compliance on this issue for the near future. Other lines, I just don't know about their practices and cannot believe their promises. Princess lied. So the ethical dilemma is to give up cruising entirely or continue to support a former violator. Tough call either way. We will continue to sail Princess for now.

 

The old Nixon argument "They all do it, he just got caught."

:D

[SteelMagnolia9]

I have completed two cruises with Princess, one in 2015 and one in 2016. I have a cruise booked with Princess in spring 2017 with my flights already paid. Moving forward, I would not consider them for future travel.

[Aquahound]

I completely agree with you, and have not been trying in any way to downplay the seriousness of this or Princess' culpability in it. In fact, my point, which I must have seriously mangled, was that it especially surprises me that a cruise line would do this today, since as a whole they are far and away better than most cargo ship operators in environmental compliance.

 

You know Chief, I used to think the same thing. Unfortunately, these magic pipes and the bypassing of OWS systems have become so common these days, and the cruise lines have not been an exception. With the awards being paid to whistle blowers, the CG gets more and more reports from engineers, oilers, etc, as time goes on.

[gymswim]

Here are some of the specifics as reported by the Washington Post. What is deeply troubling is the reported extent to which Carnival Corporate leadership not only encouraged the policy, but engaged in a cover up.

 

At the heart of the criminal case lies one ship in particular, the 3,192-passenger Caribbean Princess, which prosecutors said used a “magic pipe” to bypass the ship’s usual equipment and illegally discharge thousands of gallons of oily waste into the ocean. The practice came to the attention of authorities after an engineer on the ship reported the problem to British investigators in summer 2013. The ship was sailing off the coast of England at the time, and the whistleblowing engineer quit his job when the vessel reached Southampton, England.

 

Officials from the Justice Department said the ship’s chief engineer and senior first engineer tried to cover up the practice, removing the magic pipe and ordering subordinates to lie to authorities. Upon the ship’s arrival in New York the following month, U.S. Coast Guard investigators conducted an examination of the Caribbean Princess, during which some crew members continued to mislead them about the illegal dumping practice.

 

[We’re trashing the oceans — and they’re returning the favor by making us sick]

 

Investigators eventually determined that the ship had been making illegal discharges since 2005, the year after the ship was put into service. They also discovered a handful of other illegal practices taking place on the Caribbean Princess and four other ships — the Star Princess, Grand Princess, Coral Princess and Golden Princess. The practices included allowing salt water in to prevent alarms from sounding when too much oil was being discharged, and discharging oily bilge water when storage tanks overflowed in the engine room, according to the Justice Department.

 

Carnival’s Princess Cruises will pay a $40 million fine for dumping oily waste into the ocean – the largest penalty of its kind in history. The company also pleaded guilty to seven felony charges.

 

A whistleblower discovered the elaborate workaround system three years ago and alerted investigators. Investigators charge the cruise line had been dumping thousands of gallons of contaminated water for at least eight years, reports CBS News’ travel editor Peter Greenberg.

 

“Our open seas are not dumping grounds for waste,” said Miami U.S. Attorney Wilfredo Ferrer.

 

According to the Justice Department, ship engineers aboard the Caribbean Princess repeatedly polluted the ocean and went to great lengths to cover up their criminal actions.

 

“There was a campaign of obstruction in an effort to hide the deliberate pollution of our seas with oily waste,” Ferrer said.

 

Cruise ships store so-called “bilge water” -- a mixture of water, oil and other chemicals below deck. They’re required to filter it and store it until they get to port, which can be expensive.

 

The DOJ said Princess Cruises used what’s called a “magic pipe” connected to a hose, to feed the dirty water into a tank that holds water from the ship’s sinks and showers. In some places, cruise lines can dump that water at sea.

 

A whistleblower turned over pictures from inside the ship. Investigators said the cruise line used illegal practices on five of their ships over the eight-year period.

 

“We are very sorry for any harm done to the environment and regret the actions of our employees,” said Princess Cruises President Jan Swartz.

 

Swartz said several employees were fired and many retrained.

 

“We have worked very hard to improve and strengthen our operations and learn from our mistakes,” Swartz said. “We’ve dramatically changed our shipboard and shore-side fleet operations, organizational structure and leadership. We invested millions of dollars upgrading our equipment.”

 

It’s not the first time a cruise line has been hit with big penalties for similar charges. In the late 1990s, Royal Caribbean paid $27 million in two separate cases and three of the ship’s engineers were indicted.

 

“We’re sending a strong message in this case to the entire industry. The message is that lying to the Coast Guard and polluting the environment will be identified, investigated, and vigorously prosecuted,” said Assistant Attorney General John Cruden.

 

The plea agreement also requires all Princess ships to participate in a court-supervised environmental compliance program. Ten million dollars of the settlement will go toward community service projects to benefit marine environments.

 

 

 

 

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[takeadip]

whistleblowers typically get 15 to 25% of the awarded fine that the at fault company has to pay. This guy who squealed on Princess just hit the lottery!!!!

[plane2port]

Exactly. Its time the USA adds another penalty... if your cruise line is found guilty of pollution discharge into the ocean, your line will be banned forever from doing business in the USA as well as banned from ALL US ports. Also step up funding for the Coast Guard to do more random inspections and surveillance. I would like to see part of the billions that go to drug interdiction be funneled to protecting the sea.

 

Exactly! Spend the money where it will do some good!

 

I'm hoping that Princess will lose their concession to visit Glacier Bay after this. Would serve them right!

[bUU]

I'm hoping that Princess will lose their concession to visit Glacier Bay after this. Would serve them right!

I would rather see the company put into receivership and the cruise lines operated by court-appointed masters. That way, it is the company and its management instead of us passengers.

[CruiserBruce]

Not necessarily. I drive an electric car and I produce my own electricity via solar panels on the roof of my house.

 

If you think only the gas/oil in a car pollutes, you are sadly mistaken. Virtually all components of a car were, are, or will be hazardous to the environment in some form or manner, at some time during their life span of use.

 

Solar power is great, and I highly recommend it. But to think it absolves you on any impact on the environment just in the use of your car alone, is not correct.

Edited December 2, 2016 by CruiserBruce

[pablo222]

I have completed two cruises with Princess, one in 2015 and one in 2016. I have a cruise booked with Princess in spring 2017 with my flights already paid. Moving forward, I would not consider them for future travel.

 

Royal Carribbean did the same about 10 years ago.

Caught and fined.

 

You are not going to have many cruise lines to choose from...

[chengkp75]

You know Chief, I used to think the same thing. Unfortunately, these magic pipes and the bypassing of OWS systems have become so common these days, and the cruise lines have not been an exception. With the awards being paid to whistle blowers, the CG gets more and more reports from engineers, oilers, etc, as time goes on.

 

Yes, it amazes me the number of cases I read about each month, but I can thankfully say that I have never heard of a US flag vessel (ocean-going) that has been convicted of a "magic pipe" violation in decades (you may know of some, but I can't think of any). Having worked, as I've said, for two companies that were under DOJ probation for MARPOL violations (NCL and my current, unnamed tanker company (you'll probably figure this out)) caused by our foreign flag fleet, it irks me that I and my fellow US officers have to jump through the same hoops as the guys at fault. I've been on my current tanker for 6 years now, and we have only once had to deliver waste oil/slops ashore from the engine room, and that was just prior to drydocking. Effective use of the oil water separator and incineration of waste oil means we have zero discharges ashore. While we don't have the ultimate in oil water separation technology, and therefore practice much more stringent bilge management (limit the oil in the bilge), when I was at NCL, the equipment there was truly amazing in its ability to separate oil and water, and we had to have two of them treating the water right after the other. In other words, the first separator would only pass water that had 15ppm or less, then it went to another tank, and then it went to another seprarator that would only pass 15ppm or less, and finally through a third oil content meter set at 15ppm or less. So, any one of three sensors could stop bilge water discharge and send it to be processed again.

[Aquahound]

I'm hoping that Princess will lose their concession to visit Glacier Bay after this. Would serve them right!

 

If memory serves me right, RCCL brand ships haven't received permits due to an incident(s) several years back of RCI dumping their pool water while in Glacier Bay.

 

Caribbean Princess has been dumping oil through an illegal magic pipe for 11 years.

 

Trust me, I'm sure RCCL has taken notice.

[cruisemom42]

I had a similar initial thought. Now upon refection, I think that in light of the ongoing compliance inspections in this settlement, Princess (CCL) is now in compliance on this issue for the near future. Other lines, I just don't know about their practices and cannot believe their promises. Princess lied. So the ethical dilemma is to give up cruising entirely or continue to support a former violator. Tough call either way. We will continue to sail Princess for now.

 

I agree it is a tough call indeed.

 

But for me, until other cruise companies plead guilty to seven felony counts and agree to pay what is acknowledged as the largest fine of its kind for these activities, it is not up to me to find them guilty. I can only act on the knowledge and certain facts available.

 

Thus, I will likely not sail Princess again -- unless they can somehow demonstrate to me, via probably years of validated good behavior, that they have changed.

 

As an aside, having worked in corporate communications, I enjoy the irony implicit in Princess's FAQ statement posted by azbirdmom above (Post 184). Masterful work. :rolleyes:

Edited December 2, 2016 by cruisemom42

[redtogo]

Princess has changed drastically in the past few decades. We were told on one cruise that gray water was dumped in the ocean. I never thought that they were bypassing the system to extract the oily chemicals from it.

 

Shame on Princess. Shame on their management team.

 

We need upper management to admit that the "buck stops here" (with them). They are in charge and it happened on their watch.

 

Why has this taken so long to be reported to the public?

 

"Princess Cruise Lines will pay a $40 million fine for "deliberate pollution of the seas and intentional acts to cover it up," according to the Department of Justice, which calls it "the largest-ever criminal penalty involving deliberate vessel pollution."

 

The California-based cruise operator also agreed to plead guilty to seven felony charges over illegal practices on five ships dating back, in at least one case, to 2005.

 

The Justice Department said in a statement that Princess illegally dumped contaminated waste and oil from its Caribbean Princess ship for eight years — a practice that was exposed by a whistleblowing engineer in 2013.

 

The engineer quit his job over the dumping when the ship docked in the U.K. and alerted British authorities, who notified the U.S. Coast Guard. He said other engineers were using a device called a "magic pipe" to bypass the ship's water treatment system and unload oily waste into the ocean."

[psujmatt]

(1) It is very disappointing to hear this went on for so long and so deliberately, and it does seem the fine is small for something like that. That may not be a strong enough disincentive to prevent other companies from breaking rules.

 

(2) Taking your business elsewhere makes sense in that it sends a message to ALL cruise lines that if you do bad things and get caught, there is a consequence to your business revenue and reputation in addition to the fine. Doing it to think you will have less environmental impact at this point does not make sense to me, since it is possible (likely?) that the alternative cruise lines either are doing bad things or have done bad things in the past. I fully understand people cancelling or foregoing Princess on their next cruise, but swearing off of them forever might be too much if you like their product.

 

(3) If this really upsets you, spend some time writing letters to encourage anti-pollution laws and enforcement in other industries. For example, several years ago the AP estimated that over 25,000 oil wells are leaking petroleum products into the Gulf of Mexico because they are not required to be inspected after they are taken off-line and supposedly sealed. I'd guess that is much worse damage than whatever Princess did. There are more and more reports about the consequences of micro- and nano-plastics in the sea disrupting food chains and possibly starting to harm humans. Perhaps send some $ to an organization that collects plastic from the sea.