Muster Stations...Why Outside??

[bajae]

Thanks, I've wondered why there are so few lifeboats hanging off the sides of those large ships.

 

 

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[Underway53]

Approximately how long is muster?

[hard_eight]

Depends on how many people try t sneak out of it...

 

Never want to find out how small the holds in the life boats are!

[chengkp75]

Muster station location is determined by the class society (think insurance underwriters) at the design stage of the vessel, and is based on crowd and crisis management computer paradigms. To change muster locations would involve considerable expense in the required studies and then in the printing of new signage, building new lifejacket and emergency equipment storage, etc, so the muster locations will not change over the life of the vessel. Even those ships that hold muster indoors may actually have sufficient space on deck for all people onboard, but not enough room to prepare the boats at the same time, and also to allow for passage of people past a muster station to get to another one. SOLAS prefers the locations nearest to the boats, but recognizes that newer ships don't have the required space on deck to hold everyone. This is a revenue decision in vessel design, the outdoor promenade deck does not generate revenue, while increasing the interior volume creates space that does.

 

You must also remember that the passenger muster really has nothing to do with the lifeboats, it is about accountability. In any emergency, even when the Captain has no inclination to abandon the ship, having the passengers in known locations, and accounted for, assists the emergency teams to focus on the emergency, rather than having to hunt down and evacuate stray passengers. In many cases in the past, passengers have been mustered, and never left the ship, once the emergency was over, they returned to their vacation. As a PP noted, in the event of an evacuation, groups would be taken from the muster station to the boats, to be loaded into boats which are then launched, and then the next group is taken to the boats.

 

To the poster who said you would board the boat as you arrived, this is not correct, as again the main reason is to have accountability, so it takes time to get everyone accounted for, and anyway, with one exception that will probably never be repeated, the muster is signaled well in advance of the time to abandon the ship, so you would all be standing there waiting until the decision is made to proceed to the evacuation.

 

Muster stations inside the ship cause their own set of problems, while alleviating passenger discomfort. The spaces must be designed for adequate ingress and egress, and paths to the boat stations, while the outdoor stations only require ingress, and are at the boat stations. Also, if the emergency is in the same fire zone (a section of the ship running the full vertical height from keel to funnel) as the indoor muster station, all ventilation in that zone will be secured, so that muster station would likely be moved to its alternate, most likely outside.

 

As for boats, most hold 150 people, and only have 2-3 crew assigned as the boat crew. The newer megaships have 346 person boats, and I've heard that RCI assignes 12-16 crew to each boat. The boats are only for the passengers and the assigned boat crew. The remainder of the crew are assigned to life rafts. Also, remember that if and when the passengers are evacuated in the boats, the only crew leaving the ship at that time will be those boat crew, the remaining crew are still at their emergency stations, dealing with the emergency, and the Captain will only sound the abandon ship signal (which is not the signal that passengers think is the abandon ship signal) once the passengers are away, since the life raft stations are intermingled with the boats, and you could not have passengers and crew mustered under them on any ship.

 

As for how small the boats are, the stated capacity is based on a 75kg person (165 lbs), and each seating area is 24" from knees to back of butt, and 18" wide. Since shoulders are wider than hips, this requires most people to alternately lean forward or back to get everyone in.

[BG18]

Do they hold the drill outside if it's raining outside?

[SadieN]

Do they hold the drill outside if it's raining outside?

 

 

 

Yep

Been there, done that during a Coast Guard reviewed Muster. That one took 50% longer. One of the few musters we made sure we arrived before the horns.

[Boston Mom]

This is our first CCL cruise, but on all of our previous cruises (RC) muster has been outside in the blazing hot sun - although on our Bermuda cruise there was one really elderly couple that got moved inside because it was quickly apparent that sitting in the sun that long would be too much for them. Muster didn't start on time because one group of people was super late. I personally think they should give a 5 minute grace period and then start for everyone else, so the rest of the group isn't standing there unnecessarily waiting for the latecomers.

[CruiseBride926]

Has anyone done outside muster with a toddler that has any tips? We did last year when she was about 15 months and while holding her while standing still that long was less than comfortable it was still doable. Now she's a little over two and is at an age where I wouldn't think she'd stand still that long on her own but also would be a squirmy mess being held that long. I could deal with it but I worry more for those people next to us. Would arriving late and staying towards the back make any difference?

 

 

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[broberts]

chengkp75, always nice to read one of your very informative posts. Thanks.

[Organized Chaos]

Has anyone done outside muster with a toddler that has any tips? We did last year when she was about 15 months and while holding her while standing still that long was less than comfortable it was still doable. Now she's a little over two and is at an age where I wouldn't think she'd stand still that long on her own but also would be a squirmy mess being held that long. I could deal with it but I worry more for those people next to us. Would arriving late and staying towards the back make any difference?

If you're muster station is outside on deck, arriving late would put you closer to the front of the pack. The earlier you arrive, the farther back in the group you'll be. Some people like to be against the wall because they can lean on it, but being in the back surrounded by people, crammed in like sardines probably wouldn't be ideal for a two year old. It can be miserably hot and if you're surrounded by a large group of people, it's worse. Now imagine being a youngster standing down there on their own. So if it were me, I'd try to get in the front. If you happen to be inside, you'll be much better off. Does she have a favorite small toy that makes her feel comfortable and could entertain her? Nowadays, a lot of people have apps on their smartphones & tablets that are designed for toddlers. I don't know if that's your thing, though.

[Boston Mom]

 

Has anyone done outside muster with a toddler that has any tips? We did last year when she was about 15 months and while holding her while standing still that long was less than comfortable it was still doable. Now she's a little over two and is at an age where I wouldn't think she'd stand still that long on her own but also would be a squirmy mess being held that long. I could deal with it but I worry more for those people next to us. Would arriving late and staying towards the back make any difference?

 

 

 

 

I would say DON'T show up late, it just delays the whole thing for everybody else if people don't show up on time. You also might greatly delay yourself too, as I have heard that there is "remedial muster" for people that skip their assigned muster or show up significantly after it has started.

 

As a mom of 3 who has been stuck waiting with toddlers in many places - I can say that my kids always did better at that age when they were up front, where they could see what was going on. If they were in the back they would get whiny and start squirming and wanting to wander off. Snacks always worked wonders, as did toys that they had never seen before. If it was me I would show up right on time, with the child dressed in really comfortable clothing, and armed with drinks and a couple of snacks (ideally something that she can eat herself with her fingers and that takes a long time to eat). I would position myself as close to the front as possible and have my husband and I taking turns supervising the new toy and the eating.

 

This strategy has gotten me through many airports/plane rides, long doctor appointments, and long lines at Disney and other vacation destinations. I would be what would have worked best with my kiddos on a cruise muster at that age.

[BenjiRodney]

The Fantasy class starts inside and then they walk you to the lifeboats.

 

 

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[MissyMac13]

If you ask to go inside and sit down, they will allow it. I had to do this once in the extreme heat and there were a number of handicapped folks who were seated inside as well.

[rangerdog]

We were just on the Freedom 2 weeks ago and all their Muster station drills are outside on the deck. However, I told them I was claustrophobic, which is a true statement, and they allowed me to sit in the dining room with the handicap people. If you have any issues or medical issues, just say something to a staff member and they will always politely accommodate you :)

[SadieN]

Has anyone done outside muster with a toddler that has any tips? We did last year when she was about 15 months and while holding her while standing still that long was less than comfortable it was still doable. Now she's a little over two and is at an age where I wouldn't think she'd stand still that long on her own but also would be a squirmy mess being held that long. I could deal with it but I worry more for those people next to us. Would arriving late and staying towards the back make any difference?

 

 

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Use a stroller.

[TravelLots]

Muster station location is determined by the class society (think insurance underwriters) at the design stage of the vessel, and is based on crowd and crisis management computer paradigms. To change muster locations would involve considerable expense in the required studies and then in the printing of new signage, building new lifejacket and emergency equipment storage, etc, so the muster locations will not change over the life of the vessel.

 

 

Thank you! That explanation is really helpful.

 

 

 

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[Havingfun2010]

Hi everyone,

So, I just got back from the Carnival Dream where all muster stations were inside the theater or bar, etc. - FABULOUS. When I sailed the Carnival Valor in the Spring, we were outside on the hot, miserable deck:mad:! Who gets to choose if passengers are inside or outside for muster drills? :confused: Why can't we stay inside as a general ship-wide practice?

 

In the event of an actual emergency, you would be outside also. Maybe it is for good practice? At work, a person wanted to know why we needed to use steps in a fire drill? Maybe because the sign on the elevator says do not use when the building is on fire? Drills are drills, and it's really not that hot.

[Doggielover68]

Other lines do, no idea why carnival doesn't. Have cruises Norwegian and celebrity and never had to do a mister drill standing outside. We did one on the carnival glory and it was miserable; everyone had to stand in a line silently while they went through instructions. If anyone sat down or talked they stopped to tell people to stand back up

 

 

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In the event of an actual emergency, it is good to know where you're supposed to go. It's both a drill for both the guests and the crew. Just think of school fire drills. Everyone lines up outside where they are expected to go if there is a fire, attendance is taken, etc. For those who have special needs, you can attend a seated muster drill.

 

 

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[winddawn]

Hi everyone,

So, I just got back from the Carnival Dream where all muster stations were inside the theater or bar, etc. - FABULOUS. When I sailed the Carnival Valor in the Spring, we were outside on the hot, miserable deck:mad:! Who gets to choose if passengers are inside or outside for muster drills? :confused: Why can't we stay inside as a general ship-wide practice?

 

You are asking a great question. On more than one occasion, I've seen people faint during the muster drills when it is so hot and muggy. I think Carnival should make every effort to hold their muster drills indoors. Packing a whole bunch of people in like sardines in the heat on deck is very difficult for passengers. As long as passengers know what to do and where to go, I think Carnival should make every effort to keep passengers comfortable.

[ccruisequeen]

Depends on what the Powers That Be determine for each ship. Have been on several HAL ships where Muster is held outside. I like knowing how to get to the lifeboats. Carnival Fantasy Class has a split Muster- meet inside, then go to the lifeboats.

 

Powers That Be aren't Carnival, they're governmental.

Some of the muster stations are on lido deck, most inside in the various bars and theater, where they can sit down.

[kc58ab]

While I get the correlation of going to the place you should go to meet in an actual emergency, I doubt when one happens it is orderly and people go where they are supposed to go.

 

The problem with it being outside is with the length of time it can be dangerous. On the Freedom twice I saw someone pass out during this. This last March, yes March, not like it was July or August so could be much worse, a woman in the back fainted and hit her head. Then they called in help for that and of course didn't dismiss the group so it was hard for them to get through with the wheelchair with all the people.

 

It is good that it seems the newer ships are all indoors or at least the Dream was.

[kc58ab]

Has anyone done outside muster with a toddler that has any tips? We did last year when she was about 15 months and while holding her while standing still that long was less than comfortable it was still doable. Now she's a little over two and is at an age where I wouldn't think she'd stand still that long on her own but also would be a squirmy mess being held that long. I could deal with it but I worry more for those people next to us. Would arriving late and staying towards the back make any difference?

 

 

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Don't stand in the back. With all the people that will be likely be packed where you get no air. It gets hot and it is lengthy, you don't want to have to do that while holding a child. I stood in the back once, and won't do that again if I can avoid it.

[DallasGuy75219]

The Fantasy class starts inside and then they walk you to the lifeboats.

 

 

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Except for the Lido deck muster station(s).

 

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[winddawn]

Muster station location is determined by the class society (think insurance underwriters) at the design stage of the vessel, and is based on crowd and crisis management computer paradigms. To change muster locations would involve considerable expense in the required studies and then in the printing of new signage, building new lifejacket and emergency equipment storage, etc, so the muster locations will not change over the life of the vessel. Even those ships that hold muster indoors may actually have sufficient space on deck for all people onboard, but not enough room to prepare the boats at the same time, and also to allow for passage of people past a muster station to get to another one. SOLAS prefers the locations nearest to the boats, but recognizes that newer ships don't have the required space on deck to hold everyone. This is a revenue decision in vessel design, the outdoor promenade deck does not generate revenue, while increasing the interior volume creates space that does.

 

You must also remember that the passenger muster really has nothing to do with the lifeboats, it is about accountability. In any emergency, even when the Captain has no inclination to abandon the ship, having the passengers in known locations, and accounted for, assists the emergency teams to focus on the emergency, rather than having to hunt down and evacuate stray passengers. In many cases in the past, passengers have been mustered, and never left the ship, once the emergency was over, they returned to their vacation. As a PP noted, in the event of an evacuation, groups would be taken from the muster station to the boats, to be loaded into boats which are then launched, and then the next group is taken to the boats.

 

To the poster who said you would board the boat as you arrived, this is not correct, as again the main reason is to have accountability, so it takes time to get everyone accounted for, and anyway, with one exception that will probably never be repeated, the muster is signaled well in advance of the time to abandon the ship, so you would all be standing there waiting until the decision is made to proceed to the evacuation.

 

Muster stations inside the ship cause their own set of problems, while alleviating passenger discomfort. The spaces must be designed for adequate ingress and egress, and paths to the boat stations, while the outdoor stations only require ingress, and are at the boat stations. Also, if the emergency is in the same fire zone (a section of the ship running the full vertical height from keel to funnel) as the indoor muster station, all ventilation in that zone will be secured, so that muster station would likely be moved to its alternate, most likely outside.

 

As for boats, most hold 150 people, and only have 2-3 crew assigned as the boat crew. The newer megaships have 346 person boats, and I've heard that RCI assignes 12-16 crew to each boat. The boats are only for the passengers and the assigned boat crew. The remainder of the crew are assigned to life rafts. Also, remember that if and when the passengers are evacuated in the boats, the only crew leaving the ship at that time will be those boat crew, the remaining crew are still at their emergency stations, dealing with the emergency, and the Captain will only sound the abandon ship signal (which is not the signal that passengers think is the abandon ship signal) once the passengers are away, since the life raft stations are intermingled with the boats, and you could not have passengers and crew mustered under them on any ship.

 

As for how small the boats are, the stated capacity is based on a 75kg person (165 lbs), and each seating area is 24" from knees to back of butt, and 18" wide. Since shoulders are wider than hips, this requires most people to alternately lean forward or back to get everyone in.

 

 

This all sounds good in theory, but is very unlikely to play out in the reality of an actual abandon ship emergency. I understand your onboard experience, but how many times have you actually reacted in that type of true emergency? Each of us may try to follow the preconceived instructions in an actual abandon ship emergency, but what actually happens in that situation will likely be much different. A similar scenario plays out on airplanes more frequently than it does on passenger ships, and the result is passengers take control of the situation to the benefit of all passengers and crew. And the reason for that is that passengers greatly outnumber crew members, and for the most part, the reality of human nature takes control of the situation to the benefit of all people involved. Let's face reality, most human beings are basically good people and will step up to the plate when circumstances call for it. They'll do the right thing to help others in need. Also remember, most ship emergencies do not involve the same type of threats that occur on land.

[DallasGuy75219]

A similar scenario plays out on airplanes more frequently than it does on passenger ships, and the result is passengers take control of the situation to the benefit of all passengers and crew.

 

Except that the ratio of crew to passengers is much smaller on a cruise ship than on an airplane, e.g., about 3:1 on Carnival vs. up to 50:1 on an airplane.