Gratuity Removal Too Easy?

[deliver42]

Nobody ever said that cruising on the mainstream lines were all inclusive. Why are you even bringing that up? If they paid a living wage, which many American companies do not, then people would be complaining about the high fares. In fact, I doubt if many people would be able to afford to cruise.

[Reds4life]

Over the last few days, I have read all 22 pages of posts on this topic. After taking it all in, I thought I'd just chime in with my two cents if for nothing more than some entertainment. After all, with 22 pages of this hoopla, why not a few more? So, let's get it on....

 

Rdclfamily made some good points. I was shocked to see the rude and condescending attitudes of many towards him. As a family of 4 from 'Merica, I can certainly relate to a lot of his comments. First, we are used to tipping based on our life experiences. The "cruise ships are different" argument doesn't really seem logical since the majority of the people sailing on RCI are from the USA and use their experiences in restaurants, hotels, airports, etc. as a basis for their practices in tipping.

 

Essentially, you are in control (another key point that is not considered in the argument of removing tips and tipping individually) of rewarded the services received monetarily in the US. We tip the waiters or waitresses in restaurants, not the guy washing the dishes, fixing the food, running the dishwasher, etc. Now, IF the waiter chooses or is expected to share his tips with the rest, then that is out of our hands. We usually give the tip to them individually. Same goes with hotel employees. We tip the housekeeper.

 

My argument is based on two principles. One, I feel like I should tip based on the services I used and to the individuals who provided them. None of us drink. Why should my tips go to the bars? I get my own towels and don't ask for anything while using the pool facilities. Why should my tips go to the guy fetching towels and drinks? I don't overly bother the front desk or room attendant with requests. So why should I tip excessively? Now, I have witnessed some people act like they're royalty and expect someone to wait on them hand and foot. If that's you, then yeah, you should pay $58 per day for 4 people and then some. BUT, I don't, so don't judge me when I remove my tips and give cash to the people that work for me and do a good job. I'm not shorting them. I'm just putting the money where it belongs on a guest by guest basis. I'll even tip the kids program workers if they're good with my kids. I bet they don't get a cut of my gratuities otherwise.

 

Secondly, the $58 per day is a little off base for my particular family. TripAdvisor's article on Tipping the USA says 15% for average service at a restaurant and 20% for exceptional. We eat MDR for dinner. I'd estimate a $60 to 75$ bill at a comparable USA restaurant. That's at most $15. We eat buffet for lunch and breakfast. TA says $1-2 per person. So $16 total at most. $5 per day for room attendant. Let's double that since they're there twice on average. $10. That's $41. Now, the bags delivered to the room. TA says $1-2 per bag. We have 2 bags times 2 times or $8 for the week. Do the math and we're at $285 AT MOST for the week instead of the $406 total at $58 per day. So maybe rdclfamily had a point.

 

So for all of you that disagree, yes, you are entitled to your opinion. BUT, I am entitled to mine AND I will have all of the gratutities removed AND tip in cash to those that do their jobs well throughout my trip. As someone else mentioned, with targets to receive shares of the tip pool and threats of termination, it's hard to track cash money and I'm more certain it gets to the appropriate person.

[Milwaukee Eight]

Over the last few days, I have read all 22 pages of posts on this topic. After taking it all in, I thought I'd just chime in with my two cents if for nothing more than some entertainment. After all, with 22 pages of this hoopla, why not a few more? So, let's get it on....

 

Rdclfamily made some good points. I was shocked to see the rude and condescending attitudes of many towards him. As a family of 4 from 'Merica, I can certainly relate to a lot of his comments. First, we are used to tipping based on our life experiences. The "cruise ships are different" argument doesn't really seem logical since the majority of the people sailing on RCI are from the USA and use their experiences in restaurants, hotels, airports, etc. as a basis for their practices in tipping.

 

Essentially, you are in control (another key point that is not considered in the argument of removing tips and tipping individually) of rewarded the services received monetarily in the US. We tip the waiters or waitresses in restaurants, not the guy washing the dishes, fixing the food, running the dishwasher, etc. Now, IF the waiter chooses or is expected to share his tips with the rest, then that is out of our hands. We usually give the tip to them individually. Same goes with hotel employees. We tip the housekeeper.

 

My argument is based on two principles. One, I feel like I should tip based on the services I used and to the individuals who provided them. None of us drink. Why should my tips go to the bars? I get my own towels and don't ask for anything while using the pool facilities. Why should my tips go to the guy fetching towels and drinks? I don't overly bother the front desk or room attendant with requests. So why should I tip excessively? Now, I have witnessed some people act like they're royalty and expect someone to wait on them hand and foot. If that's you, then yeah, you should pay $58 per day for 4 people and then some. BUT, I don't, so don't judge me when I remove my tips and give cash to the people that work for me and do a good job. I'm not shorting them. I'm just putting the money where it belongs on a guest by guest basis. I'll even tip the kids program workers if they're good with my kids. I bet they don't get a cut of my gratuities otherwise.

 

Secondly, the $58 per day is a little off base for my particular family. TripAdvisor's article on Tipping the USA says 15% for average service at a restaurant and 20% for exceptional. We eat MDR for dinner. I'd estimate a $60 to 75$ bill at a comparable USA restaurant. That's at most $15. We eat buffet for lunch and breakfast. TA says $1-2 per person. So $16 total at most. $5 per day for room attendant. Let's double that since they're there twice on average. $10. That's $41. Now, the bags delivered to the room. TA says $1-2 per bag. We have 2 bags times 2 times or $8 for the week. Do the math and we're at $285 AT MOST for the week instead of the $406 total at $58 per day. So maybe rdclfamily had a point.

 

So for all of you that disagree, yes, you are entitled to your opinion. BUT, I am entitled to mine AND I will have all of the gratutities removed AND tip in cash to those that do their jobs well throughout my trip. As someone else mentioned, with targets to receive shares of the tip pool and threats of termination, it's hard to track cash money and I'm more certain it gets to the appropriate person.

 

 

 

Why did you choose to cut the room rate in half? $5 a day for Room attendant would be $20 a day.

 

I still believe their are others in the background that provide services for you and your family you do not see.

 

We still choose to leave our pre paid gratuities in place and tip cash as warranted. It makes a difference when you tip the bartenders over a longer cruise. This is above the included package rate.

 

 

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[Reds4life]

Why did you choose to cut the room rate in half? $5 a day for Room attendant would be $20 a day.

 

I still believe their are others in the background that provide services for you and your family you do not see.

 

We still choose to leave our pre paid gratuities in place and tip cash as warranted. It makes a difference when you tip the bartenders over a longer cruise. This is above the included package rate.

 

 

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$5 per day for the room attendant times 2 trips to clean up. $10. We really only need new towels and the trash emptied anyway. We pick up the rest just out of habit and wipe down the surfaces of the bathroom. We don't use bartenders so that's out for us. I respect your choice and that of others. I was just really taken back by the way that people attacked the rdclfamily guy because he chose to do things a different way. It's hard for a company like RCI to make a one size fits all policy, thus the ability to remove the tips in my opinion.

[BNBR]

$5 per day for the room attendant times 2 trips to clean up. $10. We really only need new towels and the trash emptied anyway. We pick up the rest just out of habit and wipe down the surfaces of the bathroom. We don't use bartenders so that's out for us. I respect your choice and that of others. I was just really taken back by the way that people attacked the rdclfamily guy because he chose to do things a different way. It's hard for a company like RCI to make a one size fits all policy, thus the ability to remove the tips in my opinion.

 

You were taken back? Why? And it's not hard at all for RCI to make a one size fits all policy, they have done exactly that. It's called $14.50/day daily service charge. It's people like you that are out to create your own little system for your own selfish reasons. The policy is clear, you pay $14.50 per day. The only reason to change it, per the policy, is in the unlikely event you received unsatisfactory service. Not "because I feel I should distribute it differently." You do your own thing because they allow you to get away with it. You make things more difficult for your own selfish reasons and then come here to justify it. Go for it, do what you want, just don't expect people to be supportive of it.

 

Your argument boils down to simply "Screw the policy and customary practices, I feel entitled to just do whatever I want to do." and you rationalize this by comparing a cruise ship with a U.S. based restaurant?! That's not a good argument. You make ridiculous rationalizations that allow you to reduce your gratuities to the staff. You are cheap. You are cheap on the backs of disadvantaged workers. Great job, bud.

[Sam Ting]

You were taken back? Why? And it's not hard at all for RCI to make a one size fits all policy, they have done exactly that. It's called $14.50/day daily service charge. It's people like you that are out to create your own little system for your own selfish reasons. The policy is clear, you pay $14.50 per day. The only reason to change it, per the policy, is in the unlikely event you received unsatisfactory service. Not "because I feel I should distribute it differently." You do your own thing because they allow you to get away with it. You make things more difficult for your own selfish reasons and then come here to justify it. Go for it, do what you want, just don't expect people to be supportive of it.

 

Your argument boils down to simply "Screw the policy and customary practices, I feel entitled to just do whatever I want to do." and you rationalize this by comparing a cruise ship with a U.S. based restaurant?! That's not a good argument. You make ridiculous rationalizations that allow you to reduce your gratuities to the staff. You are cheap. You are cheap on the backs of disadvantaged workers. Great job, bud.

 

The multi billion dollar company must be so proud of you trying to guilt people into donating to a fund to pay their employees!

[Biker19]

After taking it all in, I thought I'd just chime in with my two cents if for nothing more than some entertainment.

Ask and ye shall receive.

[spunks]

My opinion is simply that people that opt to remove tips simply dont want to pay them.ANY reason...i.e. I want to tip those directly, I dont use that particular service...I am a "low maintainence cruiser"..etc. is so much simply avoiding the expense regardless of the rationalization.

 

I would not even comment, but this directly effects me. If the cruise lines decide to increase fares to make up the shortfall they might incur by "paying a living wage", I am affected by higher costs. As it is I could make the argument that I am subsidizing those that choose to remove tips.

 

One thing to consider as I know whatever I say will not change anyone opinion on the subject, is that when you tip directly to the cabin attendant or waiter that money is turned in to the "pool" of tips anyway.

 

Doug

[LMaxwell]

 

I would not even comment, but this directly effects me. If the cruise lines decide to increase fares to make up the shortfall they might incur by "paying a living wage", I am affected by higher costs.

 

But everyone here says the tips aren't revenue, so how can that be? Can;t be both ways, can it?.

[Reds4life]

You were taken back? Why? And it's not hard at all for RCI to make a one size fits all policy, they have done exactly that. It's called $14.50/day daily service charge. It's people like you that are out to create your own little system for your own selfish reasons. The policy is clear, you pay $14.50 per day. The only reason to change it, per the policy, is in the unlikely event you received unsatisfactory service. Not "because I feel I should distribute it differently." You do your own thing because they allow you to get away with it. You make things more difficult for your own selfish reasons and then come here to justify it. Go for it, do what you want, just don't expect people to be supportive of it.

 

Your argument boils down to simply "Screw the policy and customary practices, I feel entitled to just do whatever I want to do." and you rationalize this by comparing a cruise ship with a U.S. based restaurant?! That's not a good argument. You make ridiculous rationalizations that allow you to reduce your gratuities to the staff. You are cheap. You are cheap on the backs of disadvantaged workers. Great job, bud.

Glad you're happy with my post. Actually that's my attempt at sarcasm. In reality, I could give a crap less what you think. Well, no, I actually give even less of a crap what YOU individually think because you're clearly obsessed with this policy and disrespectful of anyone else's opinion. Did you get shorted your tips or something?

 

I worked a tipped job before and I earned my tips for my service. I appreciated the fact that I was compensated for doing a good or sometimes extraordinary job. Why would I share that with others who may or may not have done the same? That's my background and my opinion. Fortunately, RCI and every other cruise line allows me to do this as my personal choice.

 

Guess what else? The term gratuity refers to a gift that you CHOOSE to give. You know what else? I will go on my cruise and I WILL remove the gratuity fees and reward those individuals that I feel earned that money. Because that's my opinion and I can.

[Milwaukee Eight]

$5 per day for the room attendant times 2 trips to clean up. $10. We really only need new towels and the trash emptied anyway. We pick up the rest just out of habit and wipe down the surfaces of the bathroom. We don't use bartenders so that's out for us. I respect your choice and that of others. I was just really taken back by the way that people attacked the rdclfamily guy because he chose to do things a different way. It's hard for a company like RCI to make a one size fits all policy, thus the ability to remove the tips in my opinion.

 

 

 

Ok. I just thought Trip Advisor recommendation was per person in room and I thought you implied 4.

 

I understand what you are trying to say that you really don’t need much from your cabin attendant. But isn’t it like cutting back his normal work hours and not paying him/her in full? So it’s ok for you to say to them, go on vacation this week, we will clean ourselves, or only work half your normal hours??

 

I still think their are crew behind the scenes that receive the prepaid gratuities that you never see. Maybe I’m wrong. Have been before.

 

 

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[newcruzer2]

I think we should just tip after every meal....That way, if the service was lousy, then we don't tip much, but if the service is exceptional, then we can over tip!!! :cool:

 

DROP MIC!!!

 

BOOM!!!

 

SOLUTION SOLVED!!!

 

EVERYONE IS HAPPY NOW!!!!

Although i cringed when I saw another gratuities thread, I CAN'T resist throwing in my two cents.

I have never removed auto tips BUT I Agree with the quoted comment. WHY NOT do it like on land. NO CASH NEEDED give diners a receipt to sign after dinner,for the SOLE PURPOSE of adding a tip to your room card. And the SAME with the room steward, a receipt left in room the final night to leave them a tip ....OR Cruiselines just add it to the freaking fare

[Saab4444]

My opinion is simply that people that opt to remove tips simply dont want to pay them.ANY reason...i.e. I want to tip those directly, I dont use that particular service...I am a "low maintainence cruiser"..etc. is so much simply avoiding the expense regardless of the rationalization.

 

I would not even comment, but this directly effects me. If the cruise lines decide to increase fares to make up the shortfall they might incur by "paying a living wage", I am affected by higher costs. As it is I could make the argument that I am subsidizing those that choose to remove tips.

 

One thing to consider as I know whatever I say will not change anyone opinion on the subject, is that when you tip directly to the cabin attendant or waiter that money is turned in to the "pool" of tips anyway.

 

Doug

 

 

 

It is not turned into the pool in most cases. If crew say so it is just to make Americans tip even more...

 

 

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[Desert Cruizers]

Perhaps I am missing something, but not sure what difference there will be to pre pay vs having gratuities added to your acct daily, the $ amount will be the same so a person will pay the gratuities either way. I have generally pre paid then it is one less amount at the end of the cruise. I pay extra at the end of the cruise to those I felt earned an extra tip.

[coops]

Just because you squeeze your cabin tight to save money doesn’t mean you should also squeeze the crew that depends on gratuities.

 

 

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Why did you send this to me.

[CruiseZog]

Interesting to see all of the different replies and opinions.

 

I always think the best part about my money is that it's mine and I can spend it how I like. Also great how your money is yours to spend how you like. Seems pointless to tell people how they should spend their money.

 

I like that the gratuities are technically optional... seems the most fair to me. I almost always tip at least the standard, but often more. There have been times, though, when I tipped less than the standard (like when the waiter screwed up my son's order 3 times and he started eating at 10pm).

 

Voluntary tipping is a meritocracy... people who go above and beyond will generally earn more than those who do not. Will there be guests that abuse the system, are cheap and free ride on the rest of us... sure. But mandating a minimum takes away my freedom to spend my money the way I want. If someone truly does a bad job (below the minimum acceptable standard), they do not deserve to be paid more than the minimum. If someone does a great job, I will go above and beyond on my tip.

 

I think that forcing a minimum gratuity makes it more likely that everyone gets the same / similar tips... this does little to incent superior performance and too much to reward poor performance. Just my own opinion.

[Milwaukee Eight]

Why did you send this to me.

 

 

 

Not sure. It was meant for the poster skudy #419

 

Looks like I used your quote of their post to reply. My bad.

 

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[rukkian]

There is a simple solution. The cruise line should include the cost of paying their employees a living wage. Instead of everyone getting upset and writing to the people on the board. Write a letter the cruise lines. I am firm that tipping is for front of the house individuals. I tip in cash to the room attendant, and dinner waiters. When I go to a land buffet I do not tip the buffet staff. I will tip the waiter who brings the drinks. You can flame all you want and it will not help. Try flaming the cruise lines! All inclusive should mean that all required fees are paid upfront. If you take an all-inclusive land vacation to the Dominic Republic the cost of tips is included in the price and for a family of 4 it is the same or less than the price of a balcony on a cruise ship. This is why our next vacation will be on land.

When you book an all inclusive in Haiti, tips are included, on a cruise, they are not.

 

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[Smickey]

:rolleyes: Hurry everyone, the gratuity police are here! I think you've had enough internet for today honey. Time to go back to your day job so you can afford those long cruises and all those gratuities! I mean, you're counting people's money on an Internet forum? Who do you think you are? Disgusting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Reds4life]

Interesting to see all of the different replies and opinions.

 

I always think the best part about my money is that it's mine and I can spend it how I like. Also great how your money is yours to spend how you like. Seems pointless to tell people how they should spend their money.

 

I like that the gratuities are technically optional... seems the most fair to me. I almost always tip at least the standard, but often more. There have been times, though, when I tipped less than the standard (like when the waiter screwed up my son's order 3 times and he started eating at 10pm).

 

Voluntary tipping is a meritocracy... people who go above and beyond will generally earn more than those who do not. Will there be guests that abuse the system, are cheap and free ride on the rest of us... sure. But mandating a minimum takes away my freedom to spend my money the way I want. If someone truly does a bad job (below the minimum acceptable standard), they do not deserve to be paid more than the minimum. If someone does a great job, I will go above and beyond on my tip.

 

I think that forcing a minimum gratuity makes it more likely that everyone gets the same / similar tips... this does little to incent superior performance and too much to reward poor performance. Just my own opinion.

Great post. I agree with you.

[AdamKnows]

I think we should just tip after every meal....That way, if the service was lousy, then we don't tip much, but if the service is exceptional, then we can over tip!!! :cool:

 

DROP MIC!!!

 

BOOM!!!

 

SOLUTION SOLVED!!!

 

EVERYONE IS HAPPY NOW!!!!

 

This would work in American markets but several areas of the world don't typically tip. This change would hit the crew hard.

[coops]

Not sure. It was meant for the poster skudy #419

 

Looks like I used your quote of their post to reply. My bad.

 

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Thanks for clarifying . :)

[DavidDT]

cruise lines making record money and you fools pay extra money into pockets of executives - how much of that $15 daily pp do you think gets into crew's pockets? cruise execs find any reason not to pass it on to the crew.

[Ladysilver]

Just off the Freedom (AMAZING week/cruise) and on the last day we were in line at GS to settle our cash account. They had a very friendly crew member going through the line to help speed it up and get people out of line quicker. The people in front of us told her they wanted grats. removed, she made a quick call on her portable phone, gave whoever answered the stateroom # and said remove grats. for all passengers. That was it, no signing anything, asking if there was a problem, nothing.

 

Of course it's nice that you can have an issue handled with ease, but it just kind of stuck with me all weekend that people can remove them so easily. It also seemed to be a very common need in the line we were in, as multiple were up there just for that purpose. Here's to hoping they had other plans with cash or something?

 

I wouldn't worry about it. We always pay ours in cash so that might have been me you saw in that line. LOL ;p

[Expat Cruise]

Should be easy to remove it is given by choice without obligation.

 

Definition of gratuity

 

plural gratuities: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service; especially : tip

• added a gratuity for the server