What has happened to the quality of the on board activities / shipboard experience

[JT1962]

Something that some posters (not naming names) may be losing sight of is the assumption that as each generation ages, they want the same things in their 60s, 70s, and 80s. Wrong. My parents, both of whom lived thru the Depression and World War II, had completely different attitudes, expectations, and likes and dislikes when it came to entertainment and vacations in their 60s than I, a Baby Boomer, have in my 60s.

 

 

 

For HAL or any other cruise line to think that what pleases today's 70-80 year old is going to satisfy tomorrow's 70-80 yr. old is a mistake. As an example, look at the success of the Malt Shop, Flower Power, and Motown themed cruises.

 

 

 

Roz

 

 

 

I totally agree. Some appear to think any suggestion of changes to appeal to more people is a personal assault. I don’t see suggestions of changes as bashing as some seem to take it. If enough people continue to choose other options as many suggest, the future will not be bright for HAL.

 

I fall into a group that I would think HAL would be looking for as a future customer - mid 50s, time and money to travel, etc. Very little appealed to me on our first HAL cruise in January. I don’t need a rock climbing wall, waterslides, etc., but would like more entertainment, dining and music options. No one forces anyone to attend events they don’t care for, but those that enjoy them can’t attend if they aren’t offered. Just because some people prefer more entertainment options, it does not mean they are less intelligent or have some type of character flaw, as some seem to suggest.

 

The main advantages I see for HAL are their itineraries and less of a party crowd than some lines. But that may not be enough to offset the lack of entertainment and other offerings on board.

 

Over the next 20 years many of the current HAL devotees will no longer be cruising. Where will their future clientele come from? I am sure there will always be some that will enjoy the current offerings, but I predict that number will grow smaller each year. Maybe HAL stays as-is and just reduces the number of ships they sail.

 

 

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[Fireman239]

Wow ,,, cumbia. Any day of cruising is a good day.... You all have to get over yourselves and just enjoy life a bit more...... Everything will be Ok...... Have a coffee or maybe a drink. Talk to the stranger sitting next to you. Tell a joke ,, Laugh.... Hum a tune.... Play in the casino..... Take a walk,, look at the sea and remember how small you really are.... Look into you're lovers eyes and remember why you fell in love,, Now tell them......... Complainers, Stay off my ships..... Go home.....

Any day of cruising is a good day.

[Lido deck main]

No, HAL is not HAL of a few years ago, No one is claiming it is, or is not.

 

Read the CCL 2017 Annual Report and learn why. There will be cuts and there will be improvements. it will not be static. But it still gets you where you want to go for a decent price; but it may not still get you there HOW you want to do. And that is where the freedom of the market place and other options plays its role in your future cruise choices.

 

Look at it this way, and these are just examples off the top of my head. HAL ships are fixed environments for the most part. HAL has a fixed number of staff/crew beds and floor space.

 

If you add an acupuncturist, a yoga teacher, a tooth-whitener and an herbalist for an enhanced market competitive "spa" experience you have to take away four other staff persons which may have been the poolside entertainers. When you add a special station for soy milk and gluten free bread toasting, you are going to have to take away the custom eggs benedict bar because there is only so much fixed floor space. If you add the large group BB Kings, you are going to have to reduce Adagio to two people instead of four. Or whatever.

 

Plenty of people complained about the poolside music, so perhaps HAL management was listening to its customers. Plenty of people started demanding special dietary accommodations, HAL management listened and had to convert existing floor space. CDC declared older HAL ships were not set up for Lido area food handling so they had to shut down the outdoor buffets. Who knows why they stopped the aft deck SailAways as reported lately.

 

And so it goes. That is why HAL needs to think through whether it is going to narrow what it offers and lose some to the competition or tries to be all things to all people at all times and ends up chasing its tale into oblivion.

 

I agree with the above 100%. Also, I think that the price we are paying for cruising, is excellent value compared to land travel. HAL or any cruise line could give us all 100% of things we would like, we just have to be prepared to pay higher cruise fares and I for one would rather keep low fares and go on more trips. People keep talking about cutbacks and the way things used to be, I am in my low fifties, I remember flying and getting dinner served on plates made of China. Now when I fly I am lucky if they provide a bag of peanuts. Do I not fly, of course I fly, years ago the price of flights to go across Canada was $2000.00 - $3,000.00 now it is much cheaper. Growing up we would go on a major trip maybe every three or four years. More people are cruising these days, the cruise lines are doing really well financially, (the people who own Carnival stock know what I am talking about), also as mentioned above look at the annual report. For myself, I went on a nice long cruise last fall, going to Hawaii this April and then Japan/China in the fall. I am not rich, no inheritance, but I am still able to travel because relative to the wages of today, and the price of cruising, as compared to the wages of yesteryear and prices of cruises from yesteryear, we are doing great.

[Fireman239]

No, HAL is not HAL of a few years ago, No one is claiming it is, or is not.

 

Read the CCL 2017 Annual Report and learn why. There will be cuts and there will be improvements. it will not be static. But it still gets you where you want to go for a decent price; but it may not still get you there HOW you want to do. And that is where the freedom of the market place and other options plays its role in your future cruise choices.

 

Look at it this way, and these are just examples off the top of my head. HAL ships are fixed environments for the most part. HAL has a fixed number of staff/crew beds and floor space.

 

If you add an acupuncturist, a yoga teacher, a tooth-whitener and an herbalist for an enhanced market competitive "spa" experience you have to take away four other staff persons which may have been the poolside entertainers. When you add a special station for soy milk and gluten free bread toasting, you are going to have to take away the custom eggs benedict bar because there is only so much fixed floor space. If you add the large group BB Kings, you are going to have to reduce Adagio to two people instead of four. Or whatever.

 

Plenty of people complained about the poolside music, so perhaps HAL management was listening to its customers. Plenty of people started demanding special dietary accommodations, HAL management listened and had to convert existing floor space. CDC declared older HAL ships were not set up for Lido area food handling so they had to shut down the outdoor buffets. Who knows why they stopped the aft deck SailAways as reported lately.

 

And so it goes. That is why HAL needs to think through whether it is going to narrow what it offers and lose some to the competition or tries to be all things to all people at all times and ends up chasing its tale into oblivion.

 

 

 

Well said!

[Cruzaholic41]

Wow ,,, cumbia. Any day of cruising is a good day.... You all have to get over yourselves and just enjoy life a bit more...... Everything will be Ok...... Have a coffee or maybe a drink. Talk to the stranger sitting next to you. Tell a joke ,, Laugh.... Hum a tune.... Play in the casino..... Take a walk,, look at the sea and remember how small you really are.... Look into you're lovers eyes and remember why you fell in love,, Now tell them......... Complainers, Stay off my ships..... Go home.....

Any day of cruising is a good day.

 

Feel better? :rolleyes:

[ellieanne]

Exactly.

 

You need to market to the future, not to the past.

 

If you market to the future and not the past, how do you explain the popularity of Cunard with its classed system and "traditional ocean liner" experience?

[Cruzaholic41]

If you market to the future and not the past, how do you explain the popularity of Cunard with its classed system and "traditional ocean liner" experience?

 

Easy. Better service. Better food. Better entertainment. Better accommodations. Better amenities. Better maintained ships.

 

Just - better.

[ellieanne]

Easy. Better service. Better food. Better entertainment. Better accommodations. Better amenities. Better maintained ships.

 

Just - better.

 

Better is a judgment and no objectively definable.

But you still haven't addressed the "market to the future" aspect of the traditional ocean liner experience on Cunard. It's certainly not the "future" when it actively maintains the past.

[JT1962]

If you market to the future and not the past, how do you explain the popularity of Cunard with its classed system and "traditional ocean liner" experience?

 

 

 

Cunard has only has 3 ships to fill, with a fourth on the way. HAL has 15 ships to fill. There will always be a market for traditional cruises, but it will be a smaller segment of the cruising population as time goes on. HAL may decide they want to be smaller and cater to that market. If so, they could just retire ships as they age or transfer some of them to other lines in the Carnival family.

 

 

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[kazu]

Cunard has only has 3 ships to fill, with a fourth on the way. HAL has 15 ships to fill. There will always be a market for traditional cruises, but it will be a smaller segment of the cruising population as time goes on. HAL may decide they want to be smaller and cater to that market. If so, they could just retire ships as they age or transfer some of them to other lines in the Carnival family.

 

 

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Well, your theory sounds good, but here's the problem...

 

If HAL appeals to traditional cruisers (as you claim), retiring ships will be the end of them since the smaller, older ships will be retired first. You know, the ones with the multi million dollar art collections.

 

The Prinsendam will seal the fate for a number of cruisers as I know some who only sail HAL on that ship.

 

I guess time will tell who is right and who is wrong.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Well, your theory sounds good, but here's the problem...

 

If HAL appeals to traditional cruisers (as you claim), retiring ships will be the end of them since the smaller, older ships will be retired first. You know, the ones with the multi million dollar art collections.

 

The Prinsendam will seal the fate for a number of cruisers as I know some who only sail HAL on that ship.

 

I guess time will tell who is right and who is wrong.

 

Perhaps, as smaller ships retire, HAL could sell the art collections to pay for more entertainers on the remaining ships?

 

I do see more of the small ships retiring as HAL brings out the big ones. I'm not saying I like the idea, it just seems inevitable.

[Fireman239]

Feel better? :rolleyes:

Yes, thank you.....

[Hlitner]

Perhaps, as smaller ships retire, HAL could sell the art collections to pay for more entertainers on the remaining ships?

 

I do see more of the small ships retiring as HAL brings out the big ones. I'm not saying I like the idea, it just seems inevitable.

 

It even gets worse (entertainment wise). HAL seems to be expanding their use of documentary movies (in the main showroom) rather than bringing aboard another Guest Entertainer or production show. There is a recent posting about this...

 

Hank

[*Miss G*]

Wow ,,, cumbia. Any day of cruising is a good day.... You all have to get over yourselves and just enjoy life a bit more...... Everything will be Ok...... Have a coffee or maybe a drink. Talk to the stranger sitting next to you. Tell a joke ,, Laugh.... Hum a tune.... Play in the casino..... Take a walk,, look at the sea and remember how small you really are.... Look into you're lovers eyes and remember why you fell in love,, Now tell them......... Complainers, Stay off my ships..... Go home.....

Any day of cruising is a good day.

 

THANK you.

[Jade13]

 

So, if HAL offers the right itinerary we'll still check it out. We're really interested to see what's in the Maasdam's future with the zodiac excursions. But, so far we haven't seen any of her fall 2019/spring 2020 itineraries.

 

.

 

 

 

Zodiac excursions on Maasdam? Which itinerary, and where did you read this?

 

My DH says it best. “HAL is boring”.

 

We travel on HAL for the itineraries and wonderful crew. We also think the food overall is better than Celebrity (closest comparison), but their ships are so much more fun.

 

So we come back to HAL for the itineraries, food and crew.

 

 

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[Lido deck main]

Zodiac excursions on Maasdam? Which itinerary, and where did you read this?

 

My DH says it best. “HAL is boring”.

 

We travel on HAL for the itineraries and wonderful crew. We also think the food overall is better than Celebrity (closest comparison), but their ships are so much more fun.

 

So we come back to HAL for the itineraries, food and crew.

 

 

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Absolutely, that above exactly is what is important, great itineraries, great crew, and great food quality. Couldn’t have said it better. We can’t have it all, but we have what really counts. Spot on.

[Aquahound]

It even gets worse (entertainment wise). HAL seems to be expanding their use of documentary movies (in the main showroom) rather than bringing aboard another Guest Entertainer or production show. There is a recent posting about this...

 

I just saw that thread. The documentary show on K'dam was entertaining considering the surround screens, but this sort of thing is better suited for side entertainment, like during a sea day, not the main evening show.

[Old As Dirt Mom]

Zodiac excursions on Maasdam? Which itinerary, and where did you read this?

 

My DH says it best. “HAL is boring”.

 

We travel on HAL for the itineraries and wonderful crew. We also think the food overall is better than Celebrity (closest comparison), but their ships are so much more fun.

 

So we come back to HAL for the itineraries, food and crew.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

About the zodiacs, and the EXC In-Depth Voyages:

 

https://www.hollandamerica.com/blog/topics/arts-entertainment/new-exc-in-depth-voyages-feature-zodiac-excursions-for-up-close-discovery/

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=8409

[cruisemom42]

I don't think this has to be a "glass completely full OR glass completely empty" discussion about HAL's options.

 

While it appears there are a few extremely loyal passengers who will continue to sail with HAL even if little is offered beyond a functional cabin -- which arguably HAL does not always supply as reliably as most other mass market lines -- relatively good food and good itineraries, I don't think HAL can count on filling the berths of 14 or so ships with only that formula.

 

HAL is a mass market line and as such, needs to compete in that market. Many of us have said for years that HAL needs a brand (not "branding" as in coming up with licensing agreements with Lincoln Hall or BB King or Oprah, but an actual brand). One reason for the success of Cunard, in my opinion, is consistency of the brand. You know what you're going to get with Cunard. With HAL, not so much. HAL has big ships and medium ships and one small ship. HAL has old ships and new ships. HAL has basic and shorter itineraries in the Caribbean and Alaska (and to a lesser extent Europe) and longer and varied itineraries in many places. HAL has BB King and Tamarind on some ships but not others. And so on. In short, HAL has a bit of an identity crisis.

 

I have read the CCL 2017 annual report twice. I don't see doom and gloom. In fact, the future looks pretty good according to my reading of it. According to the CEO of CCL, they "delivered record cash from operations of over $5.3 billion on record revenues of $17.5 billion." Things are going so well that CCL achieved even their significantly upwardly revised earnings projections and increased their quarterly dividend to stockholders twice in the last year. This hardly seems like a company that needs to literally throw everything overboard in order to just keep the ship afloat....

 

Yes, they cite certain risks. That is standard CYA and "manage shareholder expectations" 101.

 

Like almost all the posters on this board, I also hope HAL continues to be an itinerary and unique destination oriented cruise line for travelers. No matter what their age group or demographics. Some seem to think that involves HAL ships just staying afloat for the next 10 years until they are no longer able to cruise. (Kind of like my elderly parents hoping HAL would not ban smoking until their cruising days were over....) I take a longer view and I tend to agree with those posters who perceive that those in their 50s and 60s today who are just reaching retirement age with a good bundle of savings and a taste for travel are not necessarily looking for the same experience as those in their late 70s or 80s overall. (Of course this is a generalization.) But these views are not mutually exclusive.

 

I'd say 95% of those who've expressed an opinion aren't looking for HAL to be Royal Caribbean 2.0 with big ships and a much more active set of entertainment options. We also aren't looking for HAL to be "Oceania Lite." We want HAL to be HAL 2.0 with good itineraries, reasonably-sized and well maintained ships, but also with better dining options, appropriate and interesting entertainment/enrichment on sea days, and the same gracious level of service HAL has always represented.

 

Finally, I have to say that comments like "any day of cruising is a good day" are really a cop-out. When your cabin is 90 degrees for a week (happened to me), is flooded with water repeatedly or has a nonfunctional toilet, and the response isn't timely, it isn't a good day. I read the boards for several mass-market lines regularly (including Princess and Celebrity) and there is nothing like the frequency of mechanical issues that impact passengers reported on those boards.

Edited March 13, 2018 by cruisemom42

[iancal]

Good post!

 

This is EXACTLY how we feel about HAL.

[vicd1969]

About the zodiacs, and the EXC In-Depth Voyages:

 

https://www.hollandamerica.com/blog/topics/arts-entertainment/new-exc-in-depth-voyages-feature-zodiac-excursions-for-up-close-discovery/

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=8409

 

Thank you for the link. Both you and CruiseMom have always delivered informative and wise posts on this board. I only wish that HAL will have some ship like this many years from now when I finally have the time (and hopefully the funds) to pursue such a voyage. Well, unless they keep the Masdaam until the 2030s :eek::eek::eek:

[3rdGenCunarder]

(I have deleted some paragraphs not related to my responses)

HAL is a mass market line and as such, needs to compete in that market. Many of us have said for years that HAL needs a brand (not "branding" as in coming up with licensing agreements with Lincoln Hall or BB King or Oprah, but an actual brand). One reason for the success of Cunard, in my opinion, is consistency of the brand. You know what you're going to get with Cunard. With HAL, not so much. HAL has big ships and medium ships and one small ship. HAL has old ships and new ships. HAL has basic and shorter itineraries in the Caribbean and Alaska (and to a lesser extent Europe) and longer and varied itineraries in many places. HAL has BB King and Tamarind on some ships but not others. And so on. In short, HAL has a bit of an identity crisis.

 

I agree! And your mention of Cunard is interesting because they had a confusing identity at one time (pre Carnival). They had the grand ocean liner QE2, plus two smaller cruise ships, Countess and Princess. And they had "the Yachts of Seaborn." It didn't help that they went through a series of owners pre-Carnival, one of whom owned the Savoy Hotel. Hotels they knew. Ships not so much. Carnival bought them to get QE2 and the Cunard name. (Princess and Countess were gone by then) They spent a lot of money to give QE2 a grand sister, QM2. They spun off Seaborn into a separate line. And that gave Cunard its cohesive identity of elegant ships with a more formal lifestyle. In some ways a throwback to old-fashioned cruising, but it's a definite and recognizable identity, one that long time Cunard passengers are happy with. (And not everyone on Cunard is 50+, so this should have some longevity) That said, there's a thread on the Cunard board about Cunard not being what it's cracked up to be.

 

I'm not saying HAL has to dump the smaller ships, but they need to find a way to market the variety under some kind of umbrella image. Capitalize on things that can extend uniformly across the fleet--quality of their service ("service with a smile"), up the quality of food. We're seeing comments about food on Celebrity (and on the Cunard board MDR food). HAL might be able to woo some of those passengers by working on a reputation for better food. If the small ships can't add extra dining venues, do more "pop up" variations, as they're doing with Sel de Mer.

 

And work on the web site. Look at all the threads here about which ships have lanais, which have the retreat cabanas, which have the retreat wading pool, which crows nest has become EXC, etc. HAL needs to stop jumping on every new idea that gets tossed out at a meeting. The Crows Nest could have been a unifying characteristic. Every ship has one. But now some are lounges and others look like a venue for timeshare sales presentations. The website needs to have a page that covers each ship specifically. Don't give me a lot of links to pages like "entertainment," which doesn't specify which ship has what. Tell me what the entertainment is on Veendam. Or K'dam. And get new photos of cabins! Some of the ships that have been through renovation still have old pictures of the suites.

 

It may cost some money, but from what I've been seeing around CC, people are happy with low prices but unhappy with diminishing product. Cuts could get to the point where people start looking around and accepting somewhat higher prices. VALUE for their money. The paragraph below sums it up for me.

 

 

I'd say 95% of those who've expressed an opinion aren't looking for HAL to be Royal Caribbean 2.0 with big ships and a much more active set of entertainment options. We also aren't looking for HAL to be "Oceania Lite." We want HAL to be HAL 2.0 with good itineraries, reasonably-sized and well maintained ships, but also with better dining options, appropriate and interesting entertainment on sea days, and the same gracious level of service HAL has always represented.

 

[OlsSalt]

About the zodiacs, and the EXC In-Depth Voyages:

 

https://www.hollandamerica.com/blog/topics/arts-entertainment/new-exc-in-depth-voyages-feature-zodiac-excursions-for-up-close-discovery/

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=8409

 

Thanks for these links. Looks like we will be on the very first Maasdam roll-out of this new dimension in " intimate adventure cruising" starting Sept 10.. We grabbed the "Kon-Tiki" itinerary just for the off the beaten path ports, but did not realize all the other amenities this cruise will now be offering. Looks like a HAL dream come true for what we are still looking for.

[OBX-Cruisers]

We are 3 star on HAL and not that far from four for my wife who has accumulated more credits than I have because of her 15 day trip in AK with the ocean leg in a Neptune Suite.

I have 2 major problems with the current HAL vs. what it was several years ago.

The staffing in the MDR has definitely been tightened to the point of having to wait excessive amounts of times during dinner service. Second, the amenities/loyalty rewards for repeat cruisers are rather pitiful when compared to RCL or Celebrity as two comparable lines for prices and service. On our TA on the Nieuw Amsterdam several years ago, we could not go near the Queen's Lounge when BB King's Blues were playing because of the excessive and unnecessary volume. Our last cruise on the Eurodam this year shows this has improved but the venue is toooooo small for the purpose.

The worst thing HAL has done in my opinion is to combine the functions of the old Explorer's Lounge, Coffee shop and Bar into the one venue in the Crows Nest.

My love of HAL ships has been tainted I am sorry to say from our first days on the Maasdam and similar small ships, DAM dollar games that got passengers active and mingling and the quiet serenity of the Explorer's Lounge.

[albingirl]

I agree with CruiseMom42. We've also had non-functioning toilets, water running down the walls of our stateroom, and long waits for a table in the MDR. Considering the amount of money spent on these cruises, I'm often left scratching my head in wonder that I continue to do it. I suppose it's the travel that we love, but though we are 4 star, we have no real plans for cruising soon.