Is the Era of Cutbacks Over?

[RDC1]

The pendulum swings back and forth. Yes prices have risen, as has the economy. I think some people (I as well) got used to the recession pricing of the last years. We still prefer X and just adjust our onboard budget as prices rise. Ultimately it's amazing value for room, board, travel and entertainment.

 

A snapshot from royal Caribbean showed that the average cruiser only nets them about $150 to $200 in profit, if they spend little to nothing on board. With margins like that I'm not surprised they squeeze a bit. As long as the base service remains comfortable and to a quality we prefer, we will return.

 

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If you look at the financial model for main line cruise lines like celebrity 23-30% of revenue comes from onboard spend. The profit margin for the cruise line is normally around 10%. So anyone that does not spend money on board is a loss for the cruise line. Drink packages are part of on board spend no matter how one gets them

[RDC1]

I can't help but notice that a lot of people who say they won't sail on X again are here reading the X forum. Hmmm.

 

And, if so many people are unhappy with X, why is the number of passengers increasing?

 

Celebrity (like many cruise lines) is looking at the future. Some cruise lines are building for luxury passengers. Others are counting on the family trade. Celebrity is gearing to attract millennials and other NEW, younger passengers on board. The older, loyal clientele isn't really part of the long term game plan.

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/travel/2017/05/03/what-millennial-travelers-want-new-study-finds-out/mRCbCdZzhtOyFVU7jN7sVM/story.html

 

Because there are a lot more people that have not cruised than those that have. 24.2 million people sailed in 2016, up to 25.3 in 2017. 12 million from North America so less than 4% of US population cruised during the last year. Lots of room for new cruisers to replace departing ones.

[jkgourmet]

Because there are a lot more people that have not cruised than those that have. 24.2 million people sailed in 2016, up to 25.3 in 2017. 12 million from North America so less than 4% of US population cruised during the last year. Lots of room for new cruisers to replace departing ones.

 

You bet. And Celebrity seems to recognize that they need to attract younger passengers, many of whom have never cruised. Yes, Celebrity runs the risk of possibly losing some of its current, loyal - and OLDER - passengers, but if one looks at long term growth, they need those millennial.

 

 

And then there's China, with the fastest growing cruising population. . .

 

 

(Maybe only 4% sailed last year, but at least 33% of the US population has taken a cruise at some point. https://www.travelagentcentral.com/cruises/allianz-wave-season-survey-66-percent-americans-have-never-cruised )

[grandgeezer]

They haven’t made enough cuts or raised the pricing enough as the occupancy rates show. I don’t own RCL stock but I own mutual funds that do, so I have a financial interest in how they run their business. By reading all the posts raving about the current value of the current product, there’s little to no downside of doing it. They quit getting my money over a year and a half ago. I still read the post as it’s sort of like a car wreck on the highway, as gross as it is, you still have to look. I still post because I have a lot of experience cruising and I have every right to do so.

[RDC1]

You bet. And Celebrity seems to recognize that they need to attract younger passengers, many of whom have never cruised. Yes, Celebrity runs the risk of possibly losing some of its current, loyal - and OLDER - passengers, but if one looks at long term growth, they need those millennial.

 

 

And then there's China, with the fastest growing cruising population. . .

 

 

(Maybe only 4% sailed last year, but at least 33% of the US population has taken a cruise at some point. https://www.travelagentcentral.com/cruises/allianz-wave-season-survey-66-percent-americans-have-never-cruised )

 

 

The 33% number seems a bit high. Considering the source is Allianz Wave Season Survey, I expect the 33% is not out of the US population, but instead a very limited population (1883 responses through google consumer surveys).

 

The cruise ship industry puts the percentage of US population that have taken a cruise to be 19.9%.

[Bo1953]

That's good to know. Perhaps it was this particular cabin steward. He may have been covering extra cabins. We don't wear robes, so no big deal there. But not having soaps automatically replenished was annoying.

 

I agree, soaps and the like not being replenished regularly would have me first speak with the Steward, then failing improvement to housekeeping/front desk, then it would definitely be corrected.

 

bon voyage

[The_Big_M]

I think the slow service is due to fewer servers covering a larger area.

 

Yes, the poster quoted was comparing cruises from 2006 to 2013. There was a ~40% increase in number of diners covered by each waiter over that time. There was also a significant reduction in the sommelier count, resulting in a similar increase in coverage.

[tomcruiser1234]

Cost cutting or price increase???

 

Food, service and daily activity is still good value

 

You can certainly buy more if your willing

 

Suites Sky to the PH are still a very special occasion and offer lots of perks

 

Regular cabins at $200 per night for 2 people is really a great deal when you consider what is included. However being able to pay extra on 1 night to the specialty restaurant per 7 days, wow you can feel like your in a suite...

 

Biggest complaint is we miss the a cappella singers and the string quartets. There was nothing like sipping wine and listening to these artist perform. Just my humble opinions.

[The_Big_M]

 

Yes, but people are not going hungry.

 

Actually, I did on my last cruise - and that was with Luminae. 2 nights out of 14 there was just nothing on the cutback menu that appealed. Checked out the buffet and the three simple salads e.g. green beans with some carrot shavings and drizzled sauce is hardly interesting, nor balanced, nor the other limited choices. Add to that a selection of about 5 raw vegetables, the same everyday, and it was underwhelming.

 

Another 2 nights returned back after 9.p.m so everything had closed, leaving just the poor, basic pizza/pasta option so didn't bother.

 

With all the money charged for the cruise, of course food will be provided, but is it up to the standard charged?

[Host Jazzbeau]

Actually, I did on my last cruise - and that was with Luminae. 2 nights out of 14 there was just nothing on the cutback menu that appealed.

 

When was this cruise? First I've read about any cutbacks in the Luminae menu. People complain that it hasn't changed. Others complain that the choices are not to their liking. But no one has mentioned any cutbacks.

[Hlitner]

We started noticing major cut-backs on this line about 3 years ago...likely due to the polices of the new CEO. Like many long-time fans we kept cruising Celebrity right up until this past December. But when we considered the recent price increases couples with numerous cut-backs (I call it the death by a thousand cuts) we simply decided to set our sails elsewhere (and we cruise about 100 days a year). As a RCI Stockholder I do wish Celebrity well...but they will have to do well with little or no participation from moi. Our next few mass market cruises are on Princess, HAL and MSC...plus some other trips on different type lines.

 

Will we come back to Celebrity? At this time we are not sure. We stopped cruising RCI a few years ago (when Lisa Lutoff-Perlo was working at that line) ...thinking we might return in the future (our DD was Diamond before age 15). But we have never returned to RCI..as we found many other better options. Perhaps it will be the same with Celebrity.....we shall have to wait and see. A few weeks ago we did a post here on CC where we talked about the changes in the industry including the many recent and future options. MSC is working hard to change their product (and image) and will soon be a huge player with about 20 large ships. Viking Cruises is growing as fast as they can build ships...and their ships consistently sail full...with little major discounting. Sir Richard Branson is now constructing his first Virgin Cruises ship (with more to come) and will likely shake up the industry in a good way.

 

What we find interesting is the narrowing of price differences between the best cabins on mass market lines (like Celebrity) and cabins on the ultra luxury lines. A regional travel expert (who has a weekly radio show) has been arguing that the higher priced ultra luxury lines really do not cost as much as one might think...when you factor in all the amenities included...and the quality. DW, who has a tendency to be conservative with how she wants to spend our cruise dollars....has now told me she is OK with booking more of the higher priced lines. In the past she would argue that we could cruise for a month on lines like Celebrity...for what a week would cost on Seabourn, Crystal, Regent, etc. But now, even she acknowledges that some of the mass market lines (including Celebrity) are just not providing an adequate product for the price.

 

Hank

[The_Big_M]

When was this cruise? First I've read about any cutbacks in the Luminae menu. People complain that it hasn't changed. Others complain that the choices are not to their liking. But no one has mentioned any cutbacks.

 

Sorry for the confusion; no cutbacks on the Luminae menu (and the service was excellent as ever). Just the combination of the limited Luminae menu with the cutback MDR menu I was referring to.

[yorky]

We started noticing major cut-backs on this line about 3 years ago...likely due to the polices of the new CEO. Like many long-time fans we kept cruising Celebrity right up until this past December. But when we considered the recent price increases couples with numerous cut-backs (I call it the death by a thousand cuts) we simply decided to set our sails elsewhere (and we cruise about 100 days a year). As a RCI Stockholder I do wish Celebrity well...but they will have to do well with little or no participation from moi. Our next few mass market cruises are on Princess, HAL and MSC...plus some other trips on different type lines.

 

Will we come back to Celebrity? At this time we are not sure. We stopped cruising RCI a few years ago (when Lisa Lutoff-Perlo was working at that line) ...thinking we might return in the future (our DD was Diamond before age 15). But we have never returned to RCI..as we found many other better options. Perhaps it will be the same with Celebrity.....we shall have to wait and see. A few weeks ago we did a post here on CC where we talked about the changes in the industry including the many recent and future options. MSC is working hard to change their product (and image) and will soon be a huge player with about 20 large ships. Viking Cruises is growing as fast as they can build ships...and their ships consistently sail full...with little major discounting. Sir Richard Branson is now constructing his first Virgin Cruises ship (with more to come) and will likely shake up the industry in a good way.

 

What we find interesting is the narrowing of price differences between the best cabins on mass market lines (like Celebrity) and cabins on the ultra luxury lines. A regional travel expert (who has a weekly radio show) has been arguing that the higher priced ultra luxury lines really do not cost as much as one might think...when you factor in all the amenities included...and the quality. DW, who has a tendency to be conservative with how she wants to spend our cruise dollars....has now told me she is OK with booking more of the higher priced lines. In the past she would argue that we could cruise for a month on lines like Celebrity...for what a week would cost on Seabourn, Crystal, Regent, etc. But now, even she acknowledges that some of the mass market lines (including Celebrity) are just not providing an adequate product for the price.

 

Hank

 

Good post and certainly river cruising has really taken off in the UK and I think will continue to prosper. Sadly for us, and i’m guessing the vast majority the days of cruising being a truly quality experience are over and will never return. I have to disagree with the travel expert on pricing, maybe little different if you are a suite cruiser but for the vast majority of people who book a standard balcony or below there is a huge difference in price between someone like Celebrity and a luxury cruise line, two to three times the price. This winter in the Caribbean for 14 nights Balcony cabin with Celebrity £3300 for two people, Seabourn cheapest cabin on the ship £8000.

Edited March 29, 2018 by yorky

[excitedofharpenden]

I have to disagree with the travel expert on pricing, maybe little different if you are a suite cruiser but for the vast majority of people who book a standard balcony or below there is a huge difference in price between someone like Celebrity and a luxury cruise line, two to three times the price. This winter in the Caribbean for 14 nights Balcony cabin with Celebrity £3300 for two people, Seabourn cheapest cabin on the ship £8000.

I agree with you. Given how much of an increase we have seen in Celebrity’s suite pricing over the last couple of years it makes the distinction even greater.

 

Phil

[Bo1953]

When was this cruise? First I've read about any cutbacks in the Luminae menu. People complain that it hasn't changed. Others complain that the choices are not to their liking. But no one has mentioned any cutbacks.

 

While I have eaten in Lumine a few times, as a guest, the OP of this 'complaint' really forgot to speak with the Maitre d' to request something different or to their liking.

 

Not sure how long they wish OVC be open until they found something they liked, as well. Again, a quick chat with the chef or Assistant Manager would most definitely produced something of 'taste' for them. Maybe they have moved on to a true premium line to be satisfied?

 

Thank you again and bon voyage

[The_Big_M]

While I have eaten in Lumine a few times, as a guest, the OP of this 'complaint' really forgot to speak with the Maitre d' to request something different or to their liking.

 

Not at all. However, the staff explained they couldn't offer different to what was on the menu, although tried to customise/select as much as possible, which they did. As said earlier, service was not the issue there.

 

 

Not sure how long they wish OVC be open until they found something they liked, as well. Again, a quick chat with the chef or Assistant Manager would most definitely produced something of 'taste' for them. Maybe they have moved on to a true premium line to be satisfied?

 

Not sure what you mean by the first part of the above - I was expressing the difference between the offering and price, not demanding it be open further, which doesn't change the range in any case.

 

As for the second part, was part of a discussion with others who raised food choice with the Exec chef and they explained the limited choices were just a matter of the cost of their local sourcing, so they didn't carry a wide range. Certainly, that position has resulted in others seeking better offerings elsewhere, as mentioned by some even in this thread.

 

Though it used to be that a 5-star line - as Celebrity bill themselves - would be able to provide a decent variety of offerings. It's disappointing how limited they have become compared to comparable land offerings.

[TommyD3]

Cutbacks are still rampant. Onboard Eclipse currently. Only two salad dressing choices in the MDR every meal. Maakes it hard because many of the salads are listed in the menu with blue cheese. When that is the case one of the two dressings is blue cheese. If one does not like blue cheese they are stuck with whatever the other dressing is! Pretty sure they still have more than two in the buffet.

[CruisingChick]

Cutbacks are still rampant. Onboard Eclipse currently. Only two salad dressing choices in the MDR every meal. Maakes it hard because many of the salads are listed in the menu with blue cheese. When that is the case one of the two dressings is blue cheese. If one does not like blue cheese they are stuck with whatever the other dressing is! Pretty sure they still have more than two in the buffet.

 

Now I find that absolutely ridiculous. We only have on Celebrity cruise booked and that's in 6 weeks. I really hope that it's not my last one. The only other cruise we have booked is next April on Azamara.

[TeeRick]

My point in starting this thread wasn't to give another venue for all the complaints that have already been made, but to try to show that there are starting to be some positive changes. But many people can't see that. I find it sad that all you see are negatives and that every change is viewed with cynicism. I hope you find a cruise line, or another type of vacation, that provides the joy that I still get every time I board a ship.

 

Jazz - thanks for starting this thread and trying to induce a balanced conversation. However, many here just want to focus on just the negative changes. Many never recognize or just dismiss positive changes. How many times have we seen " hurumph, hurumph, I will never sail Celebrity again hurumph hurumph" ? Okay those folks are free to go to another cruise line that has never changed or does not focus on their bottom line if they can find one. Celebrity is pretty much filling every ship.

[Wine-O]

Now I find that absolutely ridiculous. We only have on Celebrity cruise booked and that's in 6 weeks. I really hope that it's not my last one. The only other cruise we have booked is next April on Azamara.

 

If salad dressing is an issue, and you have a favorite, bring it on board with you. I like bloody marys in the morning, but I can't stand the bloody mary mix that the ship uses, tomato juice and a shake of some bottled spices. Yuck!!! So I remedied that and bring my own bloody mary mix (Mr & Mrs T's Bold & Spicy) and just order vodka on the rocks with lime and celery stick. It keeps well in their refrigerator.

[CruisingChick]

If salad dressing is an issue, and you have a favorite, bring it on board with you. I like bloody marys in the morning, but I can't stand the bloody mary mix that the ship uses, tomato juice and a shake of some bottled spices. Yuck!!! So I remedied that and bring my own bloody mary mix (Mr & Mrs T's Bold & Spicy) and just order vodka on the rocks with lime and celery stick. It keeps well in their refrigerator.

 

Thanks for the advice.

 

My favorite dressing is Celebrity dressing which when we first started cruising was available every night. Now you have to beg for it and even then most times you will get it only 2 nights per cruise if you are lucky.

 

I assume it's too expensive to make? Why cut back something that so many people really like. New cruisers probably don't even know it exists.

[Luvcrusn]

Cutbacks are still rampant. Onboard Eclipse currently. Only two salad dressing choices in the MDR every meal. Maakes it hard because many of the salads are listed in the menu with blue cheese. When that is the case one of the two dressings is blue cheese. If one does not like blue cheese they are stuck with whatever the other dressing is! Pretty sure they still have more than two in the buffet.

I honestly don't remember more than 2 dressings being offered back in the glory days. Although I have noted continued cuts back in an earlier post, that was not one that I remember noticing. Maybe they snuck one by me;p. Anyway, for now, DH and I still love cruising and enjoy X. Now if X ever changes the no indoor smoking policy, we'll really look at other lines seriously.

[TommyD3]

I honestly don't remember more than 2 dressings being offered back in the glory days. Although I have noted continued cuts back in an earlier post, that was not one that I remember noticing. Maybe they snuck one by me;p. Anyway, for now, DH and I still love cruising and enjoy X. Now if X ever changes the no indoor smoking policy, we'll really look at other lines seriously.

Silhouette had three just earlier this year !!!

[Luvcrusn]

Silhouette had three just earlier this year !!!

Maybe I'm just not ordering enough salads....that would go a long way to explaining the weight gain every cruise!;p

[TommyD3]

If salad dressing is an issue, and you have a favorite, bring it on board with you. I like bloody marys in the morning, but I can't stand the bloody mary mix that the ship uses, tomato juice and a shake of some bottled spices. Yuck!!! So I remedied that and bring my own bloody mary mix (Mr & Mrs T's Bold & Spicy) and just order vodka on the rocks with lime and celery stick. It keeps well in their refrigerator.

Eclipse does not have Gingerbread syrup in al Bacio like the other ships do. So I brought my own bottle. Security made me take it out of my suitcase and prove it was not booze!