What happens to Escape Apr 20 & Apr 21

[JAMESCC]

the only way around this law is to build and register a cruise ship here in the US similar to what NCL did with the Pride of America ship

Yeah well in the end I don't really care. Just seems like a dumb law. Oh well this doesn't happen too often anyway.

 

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[Flip2cruise]

Makes zero sense but it's a law. A dumb law is still a law.

 

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This is an interesting article on the topic

 

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-buchholz-pvsa-cruise-20170803-story.html

[JAMESCC]

This is an interesting article on the topic

 

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-buchholz-pvsa-cruise-20170803-story.html

That was simply fascinating, completely fascinating. Yeah I'm a dork but that was very interesting. I knew in some way it was something that was going to hurt us and make no sense and it was a ding, ding on both. It makes no sense this law. I had no idea it was going to go back to 1886 wow. How about them trying up fine carnival because of an unscheduled stop? I had no idea about NCL pride and the Mississippi debacle. Oh that's is insane. I'm blown away by that article.

 

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[Mcdonaldbam]

Jones Act deals with cargo

 

Pvsa deals with Passengers

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/23/~/the-jones-act-%26-the-passenger-vessel-services-act

 

The Passenger Vessel Services Act, (PVSA), 46 U.S.C. § 55103 (b), places the same restrictions on the coastwise movement of people. It is this act that prohibits commercial vessels such as cruise ships from allowing passengers to board at one U.S. port and debark at another U.S. port.

 

The applicable CBP regulation regarding penalties for violating the PVSA is found in 19 CFR § 4.80(b)(2), which provides that "[t]he penalty imposed for the unlawful transportation of passengers between coastwise points is $300 for each passenger so transported and landed as adjusted by the Federal Civil Penalties Inflation Adjustment Act of 1990), see Federal Register.

 

 

The penalty is now$762.00

 

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=d3a92116f983bcdc53342445fac5e527&mc=true&node=se19.1.4_180&rgn=div8

[BirdTravels]

That is a really, really dumb rule unless someone can tell me a good reason it's in place? It sounds really stupid.

It's US law to protect US trade by only allowing US ships to carry goods between US ports. That is the reason that after the hurricanes, foreign flagged ships (and cruise ships) could not take supplies from the US to San Juan, until the President waived the requirements.

[LMaxwell]

Should have added a day w a port stop in Nassau. Snowbirds pay big money for cruises that come south and end in Florida; and this is the time of the year they go back north. Many already are shipping their cars and they fly up to NY/NJ/CT. They could have paid roughly the same as airfare for a two or three night cruise, food, services, etc.

 

Count me in as shocked NCL didn't do this as a revenue cruise. I've taken many repo cruises with a quick stop in foreign port. Great way to end up somewhere you need to be for low dough.

[shof515]

Should have added a day w a port stop in Nassau.

nassau is not a distant foreign port. the only distant foreign port that count for these laws is the ABC islands.

[LMaxwell]

nassau is not a distant foreign port. the only distant foreign port that count for these laws is the ABC islands.

 

Have done NY to FL repos with stops in BDA.

[DaytonCruiser]

There is also a gap in Breakaways schedule from her last cruise in New Orleans that ends April 7, 2019 and her first cruise in Miami April 14,2019

 

 

 

 

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[LMaxwell]

There is also a gap in Breakaways schedule from her last cruise in New Orleans that ends April 7, 2019 and her first cruise in Miami April 14,2019

 

 

 

 

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It is possible they need to do a quickie dry dock or even wet dock for inspections. Maybe Cheng has a schedule for stuff like that?

[DaytonCruiser]

It is possible they need to do a quickie dry dock or even wet dock for inspections. Maybe Cheng has a schedule for stuff like that?

 

 

 

She has a two week dry dock later this month,after her Transatlantic cruise.

 

 

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[tunaman2011]

Seems like a loss of revenue in my opinion. Wouldn't be hard to add a Nassau stop- at the least. :)

 

Greetings

 

Stopping at Nassau would not matter since Nassau isn't a "far foreign port" as defined by the Passenger Vessel Services Act. Each passenger would be subject to a fine of $300 for violation of the act.

 

Good Sailing

Tom

 

Sorry, I see this has already been explained.

[romalley99]

Some silly comments here. Do you think that NCL doesn't want to maximize profits every single day if they can? Laws are laws and that's just the way it is. NCL, Carnival, RCCL, all abide by those laws and take advantage of not having passengers onboard by doing extra cleaning, maintenance and THANKFULLY, a few extra hours off for the crew.

 

 

 

Exactly!

 

 

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[Doug R.]

The Jones Act. Thats the reason.

 

It is the Passenger Vessel Services Act, not the Jones Act which applies to cargo vessels. That prohibits a foreign flagged vessel from carrying passengers from one American port to another without making a stop at a distant foreign port. For the poster who asked why they couldn't stop in the Bahamas, that is not a distant foreign port. The closest distant foreign port to Miami is the ABC islands, Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao. I am pretty sure the suits at NCL crunched the numbers and figured out the two day empty transit was far more cost effective.

[1025cruise]

They would have had to do a cruise that went to the Southern Caribbean before going to NYC. My guess is that they determined it was more cost effective to "dead head" the ship in two days and start sailing quickly out of NYC versus an 8+ day revenue cruise that they would have had to worry about filling.

[FLAHAM]

Oh that explains everything. What is the reasoning behind that and was it really intended for cruise ships?

 

Intended to protect U.S.-registered shipping. Hasn't worked out to that end in the case of cruise ships.

[smplybcause]

Intended to protect U.S.-registered shipping. Hasn't worked out to that end in the case of cruise ships.

I believe it was also an attempt to build up US ship building away from the countries that do a lot of it.

 

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[robmac330]

nassau is not a distant foreign port. the only distant foreign port that count for these laws is the ABC islands.

 

I'm no expert on the law, clearly, but it's funny how Nassau (180 miles to Miami) doesn't qualify as a distant foreign port, yet the way cruise lines seem to get around this rule for Alaskan cruises is to stop in Victoria, BC (75 miles from Seattle).

 

Personally I agree that the crew deserves two days off, aside from cleaning and slightly more thorough maintenance, as I noticed a few things on Escape 2 weeks ago that could use it. But if the Revenue Management Department mandated they had to carry passengers, I gladly would have put off my vacation for a month to do an 8 day like this:

 

Saturday 4/14 - Embarkation

Sunday 4/15 - Nassau or GSC 8a-4p

Monday 4/16 - At Sea

Tuesday 4/17 - At Sea

Wednesday 4/18 - Arrive Royal Naval Dockyard, AM

Thursday 4/19 - Royal Naval Dockyard

Friday 4/20 - Depart Royal Naval Dockyard, PM

Saturday 4/21 - At Sea

Sunday 4/22 - Arrive NYC

[tunaman2011]

I'm no expert on the law, clearly, but it's funny how Nassau (180 miles to Miami) doesn't qualify as a distant foreign port, yet the way cruise lines seem to get around this rule for Alaskan cruises is to stop in Victoria, BC (75 miles from Seattle).

 

Personally I agree that the crew deserves two days off, aside from cleaning and slightly more thorough maintenance, as I noticed a few things on Escape 2 weeks ago that could use it. But if the Revenue Management Department mandated they had to carry passengers, I gladly would have put off my vacation for a month to do an 8 day like this:

 

Saturday 4/14 - Embarkation

Sunday 4/15 - Nassau or GSC 8a-4p

Monday 4/16 - At Sea

Tuesday 4/17 - At Sea

Wednesday 4/18 - Arrive Royal Naval Dockyard, AM

Thursday 4/19 - Royal Naval Dockyard

Friday 4/20 - Depart Royal Naval Dockyard, PM

Saturday 4/21 - At Sea

Sunday 4/22 - Arrive NYC

 

Greetings

 

Sorry, that is still a cruise not allowed by the act. Unless the law is repealed or changed then cruise lines will be hesitant to cruise such itineraries.

 

Good Sailing

Tom

[robmac330]

Greetings

 

Sorry, that is still a cruise not allowed by the act. Unless the law is repealed or changed then cruise lines will be hesitant to cruise such itineraries.

 

Good Sailing

Tom

 

Interesting, I knew most of the Caribbean didn't count as a foreign port except for the ABCs, but if Aruba is 1,129 miles point to point from Port of Miami, you'd think Bermuda (1,029 miles point to point from Port of Miami) would qualify as well.

 

You learn something new everyday, even on Sundays!

[zqvol]

I'm actually surprised they didn't try to fill the ship up on a one way trip from FL to NYC.

 

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They can't because it is a PSVA violation for a foreign flagged vessel to transport passengers between two US ports without visiting a distant foreign port.

[zqvol]

Seems like a loss of revenue in my opinion. Wouldn't be hard to add a Nassau stop- at the least. :)

 

Nassau does not qualify as a distant foreign port. The closest ones to Miami are the ABC islands.

[1025cruise]

I'm no expert on the law, clearly, but it's funny how Nassau (180 miles to Miami) doesn't qualify as a distant foreign port, yet the way cruise lines seem to get around this rule for Alaskan cruises is to stop in Victoria, BC (75 miles from Seattle).

 

Personally I agree that the crew deserves two days off, aside from cleaning and slightly more thorough maintenance, as I noticed a few things on Escape 2 weeks ago that could use it. But if the Revenue Management Department mandated they had to carry passengers, I gladly would have put off my vacation for a month to do an 8 day like this:

 

/quote]

 

Caribbean/Bahamas cruises are round trip out of Florida. They go to near foreign ports.

Alaskan cruises that are round trip out of Seattle also go to a near foreign port (Victoria). Same principle.

 

A distant foreign port is outside of North America. From the Caribbean, only the ABCs are considered foreign. Bermuda is considered to be part of North America.

[aceparty]

We are on the 6 night cruise. We live 2 hours from New York and was really hoping we could stay on the ship but we can't because of the law. I bet the crew will have a great party Friday night and work hard Saturday cleaning

[bigfoot88]

I am on the 4/22 sailing, thinking the embarkation would happen more toward 11 than 1130.