Tips

[erdoran]

Here's a cautionary story about auto-tips....

 

DH and I used to go to a group of resorts in the Poconos that added an 18% autogratuity (which IMHO was ridiculous because it was all-inclusive and rooms were $200-$500/night!) It was very clearly labelled "gratuity" in the itemization. Because we were autotipping so much $$ we never tipped any more unless we spent (e.g. we'd tip bar staff when we paid for drinks).

 

Fast forward a couple of years - first the autograt was raised to 20%. Next it was changed to "service charge" - still 20% but 6% sales tax added!!

 

Was considering making a reservation so I asked what the service charge was for, and is it a gratuity? NOPE! It's to pay for "services you receive with us" (on top of $27.50 daily resort charge, taxes, and still $200-$500/night room charges). And "be sure to tip the dining room staff" (and of course the person who cleans our room and anyone else we see).

 

Moral is - the danger of the autograt is that all of a sudden it is no longer the gratuity, it's added onto the basic cost, and now you are paying that additional autograt amount AND expected to tip!

 

No, we aren't going to that resort again. Feels like they were stiffing the staff bigtime, because regulars like us wouldn't have thought to tip given that we were told for years that the 20% was a gratuity (and a very generous one at that).

 

off soapbox

 

But seriously, I guess the DSC is fine, I'd rather have that than the hands out and the little envelopes.

[rbt001]

Here's a cautionary story about auto-tips....

 

DH and I used to go to a group of resorts in the Poconos that added an 18% autogratuity (which IMHO was ridiculous because it was all-inclusive and rooms were $200-$500/night!) It was very clearly labelled "gratuity" in the itemization. Because we were autotipping so much $$ we never tipped any more unless we spent (e.g. we'd tip bar staff when we paid for drinks).

 

Fast forward a couple of years - first the autograt was raised to 20%. Next it was changed to "service charge" - still 20% but 6% sales tax added!!

 

Was considering making a reservation so I asked what the service charge was for, and is it a gratuity? NOPE! It's to pay for "services you receive with us" (on top of $27.50 daily resort charge, taxes, and still $200-$500/night room charges). And "be sure to tip the dining room staff" (and of course the person who cleans our room and anyone else we see).

 

Moral is - the danger of the autograt is that all of a sudden it is no longer the gratuity, it's added onto the basic cost, and now you are paying that additional autograt amount AND expected to tip!

 

No, we aren't going to that resort again. Feels like they were stiffing the staff bigtime, because regulars like us wouldn't have thought to tip given that we were told for years that the 20% was a gratuity (and a very generous one at that).

 

off soapbox

 

But seriously, I guess the DSC is fine, I'd rather have that than the hands out and the little envelopes.

 

 

Yes, "Service Charges" -- the phrase NCL is careful to include in their descriptions -- are different that "Tips" or "Gratuities." In many jurisdictions in the USA a "service charge" is subject to sales tax, in part because it's a charge that's imposed rather than optional. Another difference is that there's no implication that it's money collected, to in turn be remitted to employees or anyone else; the house can keep some or all of it.

 

From what you described, I sure would have pressed on for a more clear answer to "for services you receive from us." What services in particular? Isn't that what the Resort Fee is for?

 

Your experience reminds me of trip advisor reviews of what appeared to be a run down former Holiday Inn property that charged a "resort fee" because they had a swimming pool and access to the beach: most of the reviews were complaints.

 

In many cases it's a way for an operation to squeeze more money out of guests, and some would argue that this is exactly what NCL does by adding the DSC.

 

I'm more of the mind-set that the DSC , as an extra charge de-coupled from the cruise fare, allows the line to remain competitive.

[BirdTravels]

But remember NCL states the DSC is neither a tip or gratuity but instead what amounts to a labor surcharge

That is because of tax laws.

 

 

I always like to grow out this British undercover video on Celebrity that discusses how “tips” offset direct compensation. It’s 6 minutes long. Worth a watch.

[zqvol]

ALL tips whether paid in cash or on a CC are fully reportable as earned income. Cash tips are no different than tips paid via CC/DC.

 

This may or may not be true. If you are a US citizen, and file US Income taxes it is true. If you file taxes in another country, or do not have to file taxes it may not be true.

 

Don't assume that US laws apply world wide. They don't!

[Toofarfromthesea]

As usual the right answer to tipping is to tip whoever you want however much you want whenever you want. What others choose to do is of no relevance what-so-ever.

 

No, the correct way is to observe and follow the culture of the place you are in.

 

Americans take a beating for 'exporting' our tipping culture in places where it it not part of the local culture.

 

And then the exact same people seem to think it is just fine to impose their personal non-tipping culture in places where tipping IS the local culture.

 

The tipping culture on a mass market cruise ship is not the American culture. The cruise ship culture is the cruise ship culture. Failure to accept this has forced the cruise line so to treat certain cultures like children and eliminate their ability to impose their non-tipping culture on their employees, who benefit tax-wise by the way it is structured.

[erdoran]

No, the correct way is to observe and follow the culture of the place you are in.

 

Americans take a beating for 'exporting' our tipping culture in places where it it not part of the local culture.

 

And then the exact same people seem to think it is just fine to impose their personal non-tipping culture in places where tipping IS the local culture.

 

The tipping culture on a mass market cruise ship is not the American culture. The cruise ship culture is the cruise ship culture. Failure to accept this has forced the cruise line so to treat certain cultures like children and eliminate their ability to impose their non-tipping culture on their employees, who benefit tax-wise by the way it is structured.

 

It's a way for cruiselines to pass the burden of staff salaries to the pax directly, which is uncomfortable for me, but that's reality. At least there is the DSC so I don't feel like I have a massive dollar sign between my shoulderblades :> I really don't like this culture at all, and I don't appreciate being expected to pay staff salaries directly (which is what DSC is); however, ultimately what matters is the TOTAL cost of the cruise, so whether the DSC is part of cruise fare or a separate expenditure, the number of my check stays the same :>

 

One plus for the DSC is that if you have to cancel after final payment, it's that much less $ you are putting at risk, and/or a slightly lower total for trip insurance, as 100% of the DSC should be refundable until you actually sail!

[ray98]

It's a way for cruiselines to pass the burden of staff salaries to the pax directly, which is uncomfortable for me, but that's reality.

 

The consumer pays the salary anyway no matter if it is through a gratuity, commission or in the form of higher price for the product. That goes for every business, not just the cruise lines.

[envy4u]

At Princess you go to the pursers desk and tell them you want the tips removed and they do it there and then. Why does NCL charge your credit card and than they reimburse you after the cruise upon request? Seems much more time consuming for NCL.

 

 

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[phoenix1181]

At Princess you go to the pursers desk and tell them you want the tips removed and they do it there and then. Why does NCL charge your credit card and than they reimburse you after the cruise upon request? Seems much more time consuming for NCL.

 

 

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It's also less convenient for the cruiser.

 

My guess is many people decide it's not worth the time or effort once they're off the ship.

[havenfan]

I won't get involved in another tipping thread, but I'd just like to comment on this. This is not quite correct. Yes, the standard work week is 70 hours. No, they don't start to get overtime after 70 hours, they start to get overtime after 40 hours/week, as mandated by the IMO's Maritime Labor Convention (MLC 2006). However, the crew don't get an hourly wage, they get a salary, so the cruise line uses a formula using the required minimum crew wage of $617/month for a 40 hour week, and 125% of that base for overtime, to calculate a monthly salary for the required 70 hours. If they work more than 70 hours/week, they get additional overtime. This monthy salary is made up of a small base salary and a share of the DSC. If the DSC is reduced, the cruise line does not have to make up anything to the crew until the total salary for the month drops below the $617/month minimum.

 

@chengkp75 does that imply that the effective minimum earnings for a cruise ship employee who works 70 hours a week is $1195/month? 1195 ~ 617 + 617 * (30 / 40) * 125%

 

I've been under the impression that the minimum for unskilled workers was significantly lower than that.

[tonit964]

At Princess you go to the pursers desk and tell them you want the tips removed and they do it there and then. Why does NCL charge your credit card and than they reimburse you after the cruise upon request? Seems much more time consuming for NCL.

 

 

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They've changed it, you can now go to guest services and remove them.

[zqvol]

Does anyone know what the breakdown of the $17.50 gratuities are? They used to have it. We are thinking of giving them cash instead.

 

It is not a gratuity, it is a service charge and 100% of it goes to NCL, who pays their staff a decent wage.

[Sweetnspicy]

I don't mind tipping but I never really know how much is enough or if I tipped to much.

 

We are American and my husband was in the Navy, they would stop at ports in Japan all the time. He and his buddies tried to tip in a Sushi place and the owner came over to ask if they had any problems with the service, server or food. The owner then told them that tipping is considered an insult because you are implying the owners/managers don't pay their staff enough. I have always found that fascinating because obviously in America it is expected. I grew up with a friend whose father would do the most embarrassing thing when we went out to eat.He would put a stack of bills on the table and tell the server that all that money was theirs if they treated him well, if not he would make sure they saw him take bills off the stack. I hated that.

[purplethorn]

I hope I can ask this question here ....

 

Should we pre-pay our gratuities? I was considering giving cash (and a bit extra if happy)? I couldn't find the breakdown of the total amount but if some goes to people who we never meet then I would rather pre-pay than give to the steward

[BNBR]

I hope I can ask this question here ....

 

Should we pre-pay our gratuities? I was considering giving cash (and a bit extra if happy)? I couldn't find the breakdown of the total amount but if some goes to people who we never meet then I would rather pre-pay than give to the steward

 

Yes, just leave the tips as they are. This is not a controversial subject or complicated at all. Prepay or pay during your cruise as it's automatically added to your bill, it makes no difference.

[purplethorn]

Yes, just leave the tips as they are. This is not a controversial subject or complicated at all. Prepay or pay during your cruise as it's automatically added to your bill, it makes no difference.

 

Oh thank you!

[phoenix1181]

I hope I can ask this question here ....

 

Should we pre-pay our gratuities? I was considering giving cash (and a bit extra if happy)? I couldn't find the breakdown of the total amount but if some go to people who we never meet then I would rather pre-pay than give to the steward

 

We always pre-pay the Daily Service Charge (DSC) and give cash with a thank you note to anyone we feel has gone out of their way for us or done something to enhance our trip. It keeps our final bill low & ensures everyone behind the scenes is properly compensated.

 

Once the DSC is paid, you are not obligated to tip any further. That said, we always tip an additional dollar for our UBP drinks & usually give our cabin steward & one or two favorite servers something extra.

[Toofarfromthesea]

At Princess you go to the pursers desk and tell them you want the tips removed and they do it there and then. Why does NCL charge your credit card and than they reimburse you after the cruise upon request? Seems much more time consuming for NCL.

 

 

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It is a feature, not a bug. It SHOULD be inconvenient and time consuming, considering what it is you are doing. Good for them!!

[envy4u]

Everyone should have the freedom to do as they please. Now pass the popcorn

 

 

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[zqvol]

Everyone should have the freedom to do as they please. Now pass the popcorn

 

 

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You do. You never have to pay a gratuity. You do have to pay a service charge that goes to NCL. Soon, it will be rolled into the daily fares and all this harping will go away.

[fshagan]

UK staff appreciate tips on top of the minimum wage they receive.

I always leave a cash tip of 10% of our total restaurant bill in the UK.

Most people leave tips but some are Tightwads and only leave small change or nothing at all claiming tipping is not in our culture!!!.

 

Thanks for that. We're leaving tomorrow to visit your country and everything I found was that tipping is done in the UK, but not at the amounts expected in the US. I would feel awful if I listened to those from the UK that claim tipping isn't done.

[fshagan]

Tipping to make up pay is not in our culture. Tipping to reward above average service is perfectly normal. That tip varies. As for the tightwad bit, haven't we paid more for the meal to ensure the server gets a fair wage.

 

You can look up how servers are paid in the US on this page from our Department of Labor. Our country is really 50+ individual states and territories that each have their own laws. The $2.13 you hear is really only the minimum in 15 to 20 states. The others require the wage plus tips to equal at least the federal or state minimum wage (at least $7.25 or about 5.57 pounds). 8 states require the full minimum wage paid before tips. Here in California, all servers are paid at least the state mandated minimum wage which is $10.50, or about 8 pounds I guess. That's a bit more than your national "living wage" that I see as 7.83 pounds. Then the custom here is to tip good service from 18% to 22% (lunch) and 20% to 25% for dinner. In most establishments the server also shares his or her tips with other workers like the bartender, busser, hostess, etc., but when I did bookkeeping for a restaurant a few years ago it was not unusual for a server in the high end restaurant to earn $25 or more an hour in tips.

[fshagan]

This may or may not be true. If you are a US citizen, and file US Income taxes it is true. If you file taxes in another country, or do not have to file taxes it may not be true.

 

Don't assume that US laws apply world wide. They don't!

 

I looked up the Philippine tax laws one time and they do not require claiming or paying income tax on tips. A lot of the wonderful people we've met on NCL cruises are Filipino.

[Sam Ting]

You do. You never have to pay a gratuity. You do have to pay a service charge that goes to NCL. Soon, it will be rolled into the daily fares and all this harping will go away.

 

 

We never pay the service charge. We just remove it and tip as we go. The others can subsidize the billion dollar company if they want. We have other charities to give to.

[fshagan]

@chengkp75 does that imply that the effective minimum earnings for a cruise ship employee who works 70 hours a week is $1195/month? 1195 ~ 617 + 617 * (30 / 40) * 125%

 

I've been under the impression that the minimum for unskilled workers was significantly lower than that.

 

When you look at wages reported by workers on the site GlassDoor you see that most workers are at that level for servers, and above it for bartenders. There are a wide range of hourly rates for servers, from a low of about $7 an hour up to $11 or so. $7 an hour for 70 hours * 4.2 weeks in a month equals $2,058. That's the low end the workers self report.

 

 

Here's a screenshot of one page on glassdoor, and here's another. I found similar information for RCL and Carnival, with very consistent ranges for them (I was thinking the POA may skew the results for NCL). I have heard that the same position might pay a different amount depending on the worker's country of origin, but the difference is probably between that $1195 a month and the higher end we're seeing on Glassdoor.

 

There's a myth that they earn $50 a month, often sensationalized in the modern press (that wouldn't know what "fact checking" is if it came up and bit them on the bum). But all of NCL ships are signatory to the union and all of them pay at least those minimum wages.