MSC ship hits dock in Venice

[zanderblue]

No not all. Take me to jail sheriff. 😊

Edited June 3, 2019 by zanderblue

[Presto2]

2 hours ago, Sascol said:

Celebrity related?

 

 

No, but surely we are one 'cruise family' and when I hear of things affecting a cruise ship like this I am concerned for all involved. E.g. Costa Concordia and the recent Viking issue to name the most recent. Surely, you don't think that any forum can ignore what just happened ??!!!

[blueboro]

Looks very similar to the accident I mentioned in Roatan last year...an out of control ship.

 

 

[Sascol]

1 hour ago, Presto2 said:

 

No, but surely we are one 'cruise family' and when I hear of things affecting a cruise ship like this I am concerned for all involved. E.g. Costa Concordia and the recent Viking issue to name the most recent. Surely, you don't think that any forum can ignore what just happened ??!!!

 

I kinda do, yes.  I think anyone interested in this would know to go to the MSC forum for details.  Not that anyone here would/should ignore it, but there is already a specific place for it.

[Presto2]

1 hour ago, Sascol said:

 

I kinda do, yes.  I think anyone interested in this would know to go to the MSC forum for details.  Not that anyone here would/should ignore it, but there is already a specific place for it.

 

One of those times for me to agree to disagree I suppose

[grandgeezer]

9 hours ago, blueboro said:

A little over a year ago another MSC ship hit the pier in Roatan, Honduras causing some real damage.  What is going on with MSC?  Seems some of their older ships have some serious technical issues.

 

Didn’t the Millennium or Constellation take out a pier, or something in Alaska a year or two ago? Since it’s Celebrity, it’s o.k. 

[4774Papa]

2 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

 

Didn’t the Millennium or Constellation take out a pier, or something in Alaska a year or two ago? Since it’s Celebrity, it’s o.k. 

Of course it is not OK.  I found the new article about the incident.

Apparently, the bad weather was a major cause, not because the ship lost control of its speed.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2016/06/06/celebrity-ship-crashes-into-pier-alaska/85485522/

 

[Alakegirl]

It’s not ok that it happened, but it is ok to discuss it on the Celebrity board.  I am one who thinks that MSC issues should go to the MSC board.

[Host Jazzbeau]

So if anyone else is as confused as I was on reading this thread for the first time at this point, it was moved from the Celebrity forum to MSC.

[Presto2]

No disrespect, but you'll need to move the one on the P&O thread too then.

[capriccio]

On 6/2/2019 at 12:27 PM, Quo Vadis? said:

Just imagine if you had just flown into Venice to sail on that river boat.

 

Ship happens.

 

And according to a post on the River Cruising board, the River Countess is under repairs and out of commission until its July 21 cruise.  That's 7 missed cruises.

[EngIceDave]

So who's insurer is gonna pay?

MSC's?

The pilot's?

The tugs'?

[Host Jazzbeau]

12 hours ago, Presto2 said:

No disrespect, but you'll need to move the one on the P&O thread too then.

 

Don't shoot the messenger.  I didn't move it, I only reported what had happened.

[Quo Vadis?]

22 hours ago, Alakegirl said:

It’s not ok that it happened, but it is ok to discuss it on the Celebrity board.  I am one who thinks that MSC issues should go to the MSC board.

And I think that all cruisers should know about issues that could affect their travel plans...

 

But there is always someone who wants to rain on somebody's parade.

 

Happy policing.

 

[Boatdrill]

On 6/3/2019 at 11:04 AM, blueboro said:

Looks very similar to the accident I mentioned in Roatan last year...an out of control ship.

 

 

Now that's comin' in hot.  🙂 

[geocruiser]

6 hours ago, Boatdrill said:

Now that's comin' in hot.  🙂 

Do you know what was the cause of it?

[chengkp75]

22 hours ago, EngIceDave said:

So who's insurer is gonna pay?

MSC's?

The pilot's?

The tugs'?

Since this is an "allision" (moving vessel strikes stationary object (dock, moored ship)), the moving vessel is always at fault.  As I posted on the other thread about this, the tugs, if they were the largest tugs in the world would have been able to produce a total of 900 metric tons of pull, against the momentum of 20-25,000 tons of ship.  Tugs cannot stop a ship except over a large distance.  So, the tugs bear no liability.  Their lines parted because they were pulling more than the strength of the lines.  The pilot would be liable only if it were shown that he was in any way negligent.

 

Now, as to my professional theory on what happened, from the very sketchy details available, I think that the control of the azipods was being transferred from the center bridge console to one of the bridge wing control stations.  The Captain forgot to press the "in command" button which transfers control of the azipods to that station (only one station can be in control at a time for obvious reasons), so when he moved the controls to stop or reverse the pods, nothing happened.  This has happened before on ships, sometimes with bad results, sometimes caught in time.  And, yes, there is an emergency stop button for azipods, but there are no brakes for a ship, so even if you shut down the propulsion, you can only let the momentum die off through friction with the water.  And, with azipods, if you hit the emergency stop, you have eliminated all propulsion, steering, and any hope of braking power until the unit is restarted.

[sidari]

Cheng ... As the ship was not in docking proceedure as it was not yet at the port, why would the Captain be using the bridge wing docking station?

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, sidari said:

Cheng ... As the ship was not in docking proceedure as it was not yet at the port, why would the Captain be using the bridge wing docking station?

Visibility on that side.  Very difficult to get perspective of things close alongside from the bridge.

[sidari]

I get what you say but the ship would have been in the channel going along the canal towards the port, I could understand him being there once the ship had begun to leave the channel and head towards the River boat.

[Barcelona17]

chengkp75,

Thanks for your explanation. It makes a little more sense.

 

[CaptainTrickyRicky]

On 6/5/2019 at 8:34 PM, chengkp75 said:

Since this is an "allision" (moving vessel strikes stationary object (dock, moored ship)), the moving vessel is always at fault.  As I posted on the other thread about this, the tugs, if they were the largest tugs in the world would have been able to produce a total of 900 metric tons of pull, against the momentum of 20-25,000 tons of ship.  Tugs cannot stop a ship except over a large distance.  So, the tugs bear no liability.  Their lines parted because they were pulling more than the strength of the lines.  The pilot would be liable only if it were shown that he was in any way negligent.

 

Now, as to my professional theory on what happened, from the very sketchy details available, I think that the control of the azipods was being transferred from the center bridge console to one of the bridge wing control stations.  The Captain forgot to press the "in command" button which transfers control of the azipods to that station (only one station can be in control at a time for obvious reasons), so when he moved the controls to stop or reverse the pods, nothing happened.  This has happened before on ships, sometimes with bad results, sometimes caught in time.  And, yes, there is an emergency stop button for azipods, but there are no brakes for a ship, so even if you shut down the propulsion, you can only let the momentum die off through friction with the water.  And, with azipods, if you hit the emergency stop, you have eliminated all propulsion, steering, and any hope of braking power until the unit is restarted.

 

If they had appropriate tugs, which they don't, and appropriate training (which they also don't), with propulsion stopped they would have pulled up this ship in less than 2 ship lengths. Not totally sure whether they would/should have been transferring controls to wing/'aziman' as I'd have thought at the stage it would have been in helm mode (although the last time I took a cruise ship into venice was over 10 years ago). 

[sidari]

And you have proof that the tugs and training was not sufficient? As the ship was increasing in speed there was no way the tugs were going to stop it.

[sidari]

Interesting video of Opera drawing in the anchor chain.

 

 

[EngIceDave]

She still in Venice?