Britain's biggest cruise operator is becoming 'Butlins on Sea', Which? survey finds (today's Telegraph)

[Harry Peterson]

10 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

 

Happened on Ventura on this Christmas.  Bed making in the atrium.  Christmas entertainment indeed !

 

 

 

 

We've encountered it too -  it's awful, it's Butlin's, it's ITV Saturday Evening, and it's not the sort of entertainment I'm looking for on a cruise.  In fact there's very little decent entertainment left now on P&O compared with the past, and the 'West End' claims are just nonsense.  Cost is the only consideration now, inevitably, and that means second rate pub turns and comics.

[Deeliteful]

Never a bad word about Fred Olsen?

Well I could think of several 😱

The only cruise line that I wouldn't use again. Food was very poor, ships are not great, they still believe people want to sing a long to things like It’s a long way to Tipperary and various other 100 year old songs!

Not a great cruise line by any stretch of the imagination - leave well alone.

 

[KnowTheScore]

3 minutes ago, Clipper Chick said:

  I like both just Arcadia is my favourite ship 

 

 

Yep it's a nice ship and one of the more traditional with proper prom deck and a super Crow's Nest.   Unfortunately the old aor-con system is very harsh and causes problems for many people.  They call it "Cabin Cough".    Prices for Arcadia and Aurora appear to have risen sharply with the demise of Oriana which is regrettable.   Simple exploitation of a situation by Carnival imho.   They know there's a lot of traditional cruisers who favoured Aurora, Oriana and Arcadia and with one gone the demand allows them to charge more.  Problem is it is lots more.   Not worth it imo but each to their own.

[Harry Peterson]

12 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

Strangely I never thought that it was obligatory to actually watch the bed making event,we have the ability to walk on by have a laugh and find something to occupy us.

the problem is you cannot please everyone no mater how hard they try.

Except that finding something else is now quite hard - it's mainly cheap, low-cost, poor quality 'entertainment'.

[KnowTheScore]

5 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

Strangely I never thought that it was obligatory to actually watch the bed making event,we have the ability to walk on by have a laugh and find something to occupy us.

the problem is you cannot please everyone no mater how hard they try.

 

 

Less possible if you are trying to have a nice relaxing coffee in the Costa bar at the bottom of the atrium when all the noise and nonsense starts.  Hey ho.

[KnowTheScore]

1 minute ago, Harry Peterson said:

Except that finding something else is now quite hard - it's mainly cheap, low-cost, poor quality 'entertainment'.

 

This totally.

 

The Horizon paper is abysmal.  Far too geared towards hooking people into (imo) silly sessions for weight loss, swollen feet treatments, aches and pains and a whole host of other scripted opportunities for the cruise line to sell you products and treatments.   Actual entertainment provided by P&O throughout the day is imo very lacking and what there is, is pretty poor.

Quizzes have become a joke, staff don't take them seriously, even the late evening syndicate quiz.   Music acts in lounges and bars are extremely variable and so on.  Problem is the entertainment staff now have to do all manner of additional tasks same as the other crew members so are stretched and always rushing off to the next event.  Cut backs everywhere you turn.

 

[Bazrat]

3 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

Except that finding something else is now quite hard - it's mainly cheap, low-cost, poor quality 'entertainment'.

Depends your level of need to be entertained and your expectations in reality might not be attainable on any cruise ship,we have been to concerts from main line stars to never to be heard again groups and enjoyed them all probably not for the right reasons but still enjoyed them.

[Bazrat]

5 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

This totally.

 

The Horizon paper is abysmal.  Far too geared towards hooking people into (imo) silly sessions for weight loss, swollen feet treatments, aches and pains and a whole host of other scripted opportunities for the cruise line to sell you products and treatments.   Actual entertainment provided by P&O throughout the day is imo very lacking and what there is, is pretty poor.

Quizzes have become a joke, staff don't take them seriously, even the late evening syndicate quiz.   Music acts in lounges and bars are extremely variable and so on.  Problem is the entertainment staff now have to do all manner of additional tasks same as the other crew members so are stretched and always rushing off to the next event.  Cut backs everywhere you turn.

 

I beginning to think P&O is really not for you there are other cruise lines out there I am sure others on here will recommend a few for you.

just saying

[KnowTheScore]

2 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

Depends your level of need to be entertained and your expectations in reality might not be attainable on any cruise ship

 

 

Nonetheless a part of the money you are being charged for is for on-board entertainment just as it is for food.  You can't opt out of that from a pricing perspective in which case there ought to be a decent level of entertainment and food standard.

For me personally those standards have dropped significantly and thus the value for money proposition has changed dramatically.

[KnowTheScore]

Just now, Bazrat said:

I beginning to think P&O is really not for you there are other cruise lines out there I am sure others on here will recommend a few for you.

just saying

 

 

It used to be fine.  Understand that I have done 30+ cruises with P&O over the past 15 years.

 

It's now the right time to make a switch imho.  Carnival have pecked away at the brand and service too much.

[AndyMichelle]

12 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

 

Yep it's a nice ship and one of the more traditional with proper prom deck and a super Crow's Nest.   Unfortunately the old aor-con system is very harsh and causes problems for many people.  They call it "Cabin Cough".    Prices for Arcadia and Aurora appear to have risen sharply with the demise of Oriana which is regrettable.   Simple exploitation of a situation by Carnival imho.   They know there's a lot of traditional cruisers who favoured Aurora, Oriana and Arcadia and with one gone the demand allows them to charge more.  Problem is it is lots more.   Not worth it imo but each to their own.

If you are not prepared to pay a bit more to get what you want, how can you complain that what you can afford doesn't suit? 

It's called business, not exploitation... 

There are plenty of other lines available and P&O is no longer the product it used to be, so why stay? 

If it no longer suited us, we would be looking elsewhere. 

Andy 

 

[Presto2]

39 minutes ago, peteukmcr said:

Now I have to disagree with your comment regarding RCI. Having sailed RCI on 21 cruises my view is that this cruise line is nothing like Butlins, very family orientated yes, but if you're comparing their ships to Butlins in the 60's (when I was also visiting the camps of Skegness, Filey, Bognor Regis, Barry Island, Minehead, and Pwllheli) then things have moved on greatly. RCI is a line full of innovations, always pushing the boundaries of how to entertain their guests.

 

Have to say that we were not struck on the IOS but there were some plus points. Not our choice but we are a couple and when we first phones RCI they even suggested we try Celebrity as it may suit us better as we were not travelling with children.

As for Butlins - if anyone has seen the accommodation recently at the newer resorts they will find that having one of those new apartments is not a bad deal ……...

[crompton21]

37 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

If you are not prepared to pay a bit more to get what you want, how can you complain that what you can afford doesn't suit? 

It's called business, not exploitation... 

There are plenty of other lines available and P&O is no longer the product it used to be, so why stay? 

If it no longer suited us, we would be looking elsewhere. 

Andy 

 

Andy, I know a good solicitor, perhaps we could put in a joint claim for going on holiday and it doing everything that we expected.....some passengers were a bit weird but I can forgive that.....

 

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, Adawn47 said:

We always went to Filey, it was closer. We had one cruise on Independence in 2010 and it was hectic. Admittedly it's geared up for families ,as was Butlins. Which was why I made that comparison. No insult to RCI intended. 

I went to Butlins in Filey in the 60s, and the factory canteen type catering was nothing like cruise dining. On P&O they even have table mats and lay out cutlery in the buffet for dinner, and the MDR is a class apart from anything Butlins offered.

If Harry and Knowthescore can find a similar quality cruise to P&O for a similar price with any other line, then good luck to them.

[KnowTheScore]

46 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

If you are not prepared to pay a bit more to get what you want, how can you complain that what you can afford doesn't suit? 

 

 

 

 

There's the rub.  "A bit more"?!!!

 

An example.   Christmas / New Year cruise on Ventura last year was £4000 for a balcony cabin

Exact same cruise this Christmas just gone on Aurora, exact same ports, was £8000 for a balcony.

 

"A bit more" would be fine.  100% increase is just disgusting.   Aurora is a super ship but certainly not worth double the price of other ships.

 

 

 

 

[Harry Peterson]

On the matter of quality, though, I do wonder how long Butlins customers would tolerate the smell of sewage. Azura customers seem to be expected to put up with it year in year out.

 

Extremely difficult to justify, and if it were Butlins I suspect the local authority would serve an enforcement notice. 

[Vampiress88]

6 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I went to Butlins in Filey in the 60s, and the factory canteen type catering was nothing like cruise dining. On P&O they even have table mats and lay out cutlery in the buffet for dinner, and the MDR is a class apart from anything Butlins offered.

If Harry and Knowthescore can find a similar quality cruise to P&O for a similar price with any other line, then good luck to them.

they don’t even have butlins at Filey no more. 
 

the food in the last 5 years at butlins wasn’t good. It was a buffet type thing which wasn’t much under p&o buffet to be fair but obviously you don’t get the option for a sit down meal like you do on p&o which is why if you don’t like the buffet we go to that. 
 

I still stand by you get what you pay for. 
 

i don’t know much about the entertainment. There was some pretty good entertainment at butlins when I chose the “weekend” I wanted to go as I knew what I was getting. 
 

Usually you cruise for the destination and good price rather than seeing shows. 
 

from just looking at the horizon tho (was 2016 one) it does show an awful lot of trying to see lotions, weight loss and all other manner of things but we were fine on our last cruise just mulling around with the kids- you don’t have to go to these things and if you wanted something else like an ice rink or water slides then I assume you’d go else where 

 

telling you. Wind up merchants !!!

 

[Vampiress88]

3 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

On the matter of quality, though, I do wonder how long Butlins customers would tolerate the smell of sewage. Azura customers seem to be expected to put up with it year in year out.

 

Extremely difficult to justify, and if it were Butlins I suspect the local authority would serve an enforcement notice. 

I agree with you surprisingly that azura was bad and I really hope this doesn’t happen on ventura but for me personally it was sorted on our first port day. 
 

I do think something should have been done about it. But it’s not there constantly. 

[Adawn47]

Thank you Terrierjohn I feel vindicated. I often wonder how many people who criticise  P&O by comparing it to Butlins have actually been. 

[AndyMichelle]

10 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

 

There's the rub.  "A bit more"?!!!

 

An example.   Christmas / New Year cruise on Ventura last year was £4000 for a balcony cabin

Exact same cruise this Christmas just gone on Aurora, exact same ports, was £8000 for a balcony.

 

"A bit more" would be fine.  100% increase is just disgusting.   Aurora is a super ship but certainly not worth double the price of other ships.

 

 

 

 

Then don't sail on her then, stick to Ventura and put up with it... 

I have 2 upcoming cruises on Aurora, one was very slightly dearer than Iona for a very similar itinerary, the other is a very cheap deal. 

Andy 

[AndyMichelle]

3 minutes ago, Vampiress88 said:

I agree with you surprisingly that azura was bad and I really hope this doesn’t happen on ventura but for me personally it was sorted on our first port day. 
 

I do think something should have been done about it. But it’s not there constantly. 

Ventura is in great shape

[Harry Peterson]

I suspect that one of the comparisons being made by those who provided their views to Which? was the increasingly similar customer base - not solely the product itself.

[Bazrat]

 

We never experienced the good old days of cruising but I have experienced the product now I believe it very good value for money hence the two cruises we have booked so far this year,the complaints about entertainment I can only judge what I have seen which have been good the food also good,I don’t do fine dining give me a good steak and I’m happy.

The bottom line is more people are cruising and enjoying it.

[Eglesbrech]

2 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

Thank you Terrierjohn I feel vindicated. I often wonder how many people who criticise  P&O by comparing it to Butlins have actually been. 

I’ve personally never compared P&O to Butlins as I have actually been, many many years ago.

 

I remember the entertainment being very good but the food was truly awful. It was back in the days when you were actually served at the table (like school dinners) and the soup was poured into the bowls at the table from what looked like large teapots, you got a half slice of white bread, grey meat and 2 (overcooked) veg and pudding you could have bounced off the walls with lumpy custard. But we still had family fun.

[KnowTheScore]

9 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

I have 2 upcoming cruises on Aurora, one was very slightly dearer than Iona for a very similar itinerary, the other is a very cheap deal. 

Andy 

 

Guessing you didn't opt for a balcony cabin