Britain's biggest cruise operator is becoming 'Butlins on Sea', Which? survey finds (today's Telegraph)

[AndyMichelle]

18 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

So it’s you who are taking up all the wine waiters time then 😉.

 

We stayed in a Nastra Azzura  owned hotel in Italy where the peroni / nastra azzura was cheaper than the water - bliss.

The joys of club dining. 

After the first night, a pint was waiting for me when I arrived... It wasn't cheaper than the water though... 

Andy 

[KnowTheScore]

In consideration of the loss of wine waiters that is being discussed here these are my thoughts.

 

The role of a wine waiter is wide and varied and in any decent establishment requires that the person have a reasonable and thorough understanding of different wines, their backgrounds, their different characteristics and origins.

The idea is that they should be able to help a customer pick a good wine that goes with the food they are eating and is of a type they will enjoy.   P&O wine waiters have always been very good throughout my 15 years of experience with them.

Their loss is most regrettable.

 

A wine waiter can not be replaced by someone who knows absolutely nothing about wines but who can take a wine bottle number off you during your ordering and fetch that corresponding bottle.

 

Personally I think it is entirely unfair on the MDR waiters that P&O now requires them to additionally take wine orders and go and fetch the wines on top of all the other work they already have to do.   As another poster mentioned earlier those sterling people are now rushed off their feet and struggle to cope.  On some nights on the recent Christmas cruise they had to deploy "runners", additional staff to go and get the chosen wines.

 

If you know exactly what you want in regards to wine and have selected something from the wine list then the waiters can take your order and fetch that bottle.   On the other hand if you are unsure, need some help choosing something, wanting to know what wines are either full-bodied or easy drinking or light and fruity or will go with steak, duck, fish etc then regrettably you are stuck because the waiters are not sommeliers and don't know a Chardonnay from a Beaujolais.  

 

For some people this kind of distinction and service isn't an issue.   They either know what they want already or aren't particularly into wine and will happily just order a bottle of plonk.   I have no issues there each to their own.

 

For others this is another loss of service and may leave them struggling to know what to order and may see them waste good money on a bottle of wine that is not to their taste or not really compatible with the food they are eating.    In a decent restaurant ashore there will be someone to help explain or choose wines for you.   In my local Weatherspoon's they will simply ask what bottle you want fetching.   Two different levels of service.   It is for me personally, regrettable that wine waiters have disappeared.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Host Sharon]

Jo, our lovely wine waitress on Oceana last month was very knowledgeable and helpful. It was even more appreciated given that we were aware she was worrying over her family back in the Phillipines who had been evacuated due to the volcano eruptions  and had lost their home and animals. 

[DamianG]

13 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

In consideration of the loss of wine waiters that is being discussed here these are my thoughts.

 

The role of a wine waiter is wide and varied and in any decent establishment requires that the person have a reasonable and thorough understanding of different wines, their backgrounds, their different characteristics and origins.

The idea is that they should be able to help a customer pick a good wine that goes with the food they are eating and is of a type they will enjoy.   P&O wine waiters have always been very good throughout my 15 years of experience with them.

Their loss is most regrettable.

 

A wine waiter can not be replaced by someone who knows absolutely nothing about wines but who can take a wine bottle number off you during your ordering and fetch that corresponding bottle.

 

Personally I think it is entirely unfair on the MDR waiters that P&O now requires them to additionally take wine orders and go and fetch the wines on top of all the other work they already have to do.   As another poster mentioned earlier those sterling people are now rushed off their feet and struggle to cope.  On some nights on the recent Christmas cruise they had to deploy "runners", additional staff to go and get the chosen wines.

 

If you know exactly what you want in regards to wine and have selected something from the wine list then the waiters can take your order and fetch that bottle.   On the other hand if you are unsure, need some help choosing something, wanting to know what wines are either full-bodied or easy drinking or light and fruity or will go with steak, duck, fish etc then regrettably you are stuck because the waiters are not sommeliers and don't know a Chardonnay from a Beaujolais.  

 

For some people this kind of distinction and service isn't an issue.   They either know what they want already or aren't particularly into wine and will happily just order a bottle of plonk.   I have no issues there each to their own.

 

For others this is another loss of service and may leave them struggling to know what to order and may see them waste good money on a bottle of wine that is not to their taste or not really compatible with the food they are eating.    In a decent restaurant ashore there will be someone to help explain or choose wines for you.   In my local Weatherspoon's they will simply ask what bottle you want fetching.   Two different levels of service.   It is for me personally, regrettable that wine waiters have disappeared.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree on this point. We've had some great wine waiters over the years who were happy to help and had time for a chat. They also often deployed a bit of theatre opening the bottle and giving you some tasting hints. It's a shame that isn't often the case these days but not the end of the world for us.

[terrierjohn]

3 hours ago, DamianG said:

 

I agree on this point. We've had some great wine waiters over the years who were happy to help and had time for a chat. They also often deployed a bit of theatre opening the bottle and giving you some tasting hints. It's a shame that isn't often the case these days but not the end of the world for us.

I always have a quiet chuckle as they still ask if you want to taste the wine when it comes with a scew cap, not all that knowledgable in this case.

[Elaine0138]

1 hour ago, terrierjohn said:

I always have a quiet chuckle as they still ask if you want to taste the wine when it comes with a scew cap, not all that knowledgable in this case.

Wonder what they would do if you said you didn't like  and wanted something else to try 😂

[KnowTheScore]

2 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

I always have a quiet chuckle as they still ask if you want to taste the wine when it comes with a scew cap, not all that knowledgable in this case.

 

 

That's because it about more than a bottle of wine being corked.

 

If you took a sip of the wine and thought "ewww that tastes like vinegar" or otherwise just didn't like the taste then YES they would allow you pick another wine straight away.

 

So here again comes the problem with Carnival removing the wine waiters.   A wine waiter would immediately remove the bottle and make a number of suggestions for a replacement. 

 

"Would you like something sweeter?"

"more full-bodied?"

"a lighter wine?"

 

In each case they would know exactly which wines to choose from the wine list and would point them out on the list so the guest can see the price.     What you call good service.   Now sadly gone with Carnival's relentless cut-backs.

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2020 by KnowTheScore

[Adawn47]

We am no wine connoisseurs but we know what we like. There are certain ones on their wine list that we particularly enjoy so whatever we fancy at the time we order. Never need to sample it, we know what it's like and enjoy our dinner. 

[KnowTheScore]

39 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

We am no wine connoisseurs but we know what we like. There are certain ones on their wine list that we particularly enjoy so whatever we fancy at the time we order. Never need to sample it, we know what it's like and enjoy our dinner. 

 

 

Likewise we have firm favourites off the list which have included the Stoneburn Pinot Noir, the Kaiken Malbec and the Fleurie but unfortunately P&O have a habit of ceasing certain wine bins and so you are then forced to try and find another.  A wine waiter would help us find a comparable replacement.  Without one we have to pick a wine which sounds similar and hope it's ok.  Sadly last cruise saw us buy a bottle of wine which turned out to be very far from ideal let's just say!

[Bazrat]

I prefer the happy shopper special reserve really goes well with fish and chips 

[davemorton]

12 minutes ago, Bazrat said:

I prefer the happy shopper special reserve really goes well with fish and chips 

Does that come in malt as well as distilled? 

[bee-ess]

I miss the Billi Billi Shiraz that we have had for a few cruises but was sadly unavailable on our last cruise on Britannia.

[KnowTheScore]

The thing is Bee-ess those "catchy named" wines aren't really that good and they are selected purely for their name because they know passengers will find it a novelty and remember the name and keep ordering it as a result.  "Billi Billi" shiraz, Kung Fu Riesling etc etc.   I was (naively) staggered to find some of those wines in my local Majestic store not long ago and there were about £6-£7 a bottle whereas P&O charge you approx. £17-£25 a bottle for most wines.   That's £6-£7 from majestic for ordinary public punters.   Imagine how little Carnival pay for it with a colossal bulk order !!!

 

The Kaiken Malbec that I also liked was about £7 in Majestic too !   It's been replaced now but likely with something similarly priced.

 

 

 

 

[AndyMichelle]

2 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

The thing is Bee-ess those "catchy named" wines aren't really that good and they are selected purely for their name because they know passengers will find it a novelty and remember the name and keep ordering it as a result.  "Billi Billi" shiraz, Kung Fu Riesling etc etc.   I was (naively) staggered to find some of those wines in my local Majestic store not long ago and there were about £6-£7 a bottle whereas P&O charge you approx. £17-£25 a bottle for most wines.   That's £6-£7 from majestic for ordinary public punters.   Imagine how little Carnival pay for it with a colossal bulk order !!!

 

The Kaiken Malbec that I also liked was about £7 in Majestic too !   It's been replaced now but likely with something similarly priced.

 

 

 

 

Yep, but I don't really see the issue... 

If you like it and can remember the name, great. 

As for the mark up, that could be said about any restaurant/pub anywhere, or any other cruise line with much higher prices. 

Andy 

[Adawn47]

We loved Bulletin Zinfandel but a couple of years ago they changed it to West Coast Swing. Nice, but not as nice as Bulletin.

[Bazrat]

18 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

The thing is Bee-ess those "catchy named" wines aren't really that good and they are selected purely for their name because they know passengers will find it a novelty and remember the name and keep ordering it as a result.  "Billi Billi" shiraz, Kung Fu Riesling etc etc.   I was (naively) staggered to find some of those wines in my local Majestic store not long ago and there were about £6-£7 a bottle whereas P&O charge you approx. £17-£25 a bottle for most wines.   That's £6-£7 from majestic for ordinary public punters.   Imagine how little Carnival pay for it with a colossal bulk order !!!

 

The Kaiken Malbec that I also liked was about £7 in Majestic too !   It's been replaced now but likely with something similarly priced.

 

 

 

 

You are correct the markup on some items  is high but your not forced to pay for them, the company will only charge what people are prepared to pay.

[cjthedjeu]

I don't understand, you are not being forced to pay for the wine, if you don't want it or think it is way overpriced then don't buy it, but I have often seen wines in restaurants, wine bars or cruise ships that you know you could buy yourself much cheaper but you are paying the premium for the location and overheads of that particular establishment rather than drinking the bottle at home.

[AndyMichelle]

34 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

We loved Bulletin Zinfandel but a couple of years ago they changed it to West Coast Swing. Nice, but not as nice as Bulletin.

Aah, that explains it... 

We used to have what was effectively the house Zinfandel Rose', but didn't know the name. 

On our last trip, we had the West Coast Swing, nice, but not quite as good... 

Andy 

[Britboys]

43 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

The thing is Bee-ess those "catchy named" wines aren't really that good and they are selected purely for their name because they know passengers will find it a novelty and remember the name and keep ordering it as a result.  "Billi Billi" shiraz, Kung Fu Riesling etc etc.   I was (naively) staggered to find some of those wines in my local Majestic store not long ago and there were about £6-£7 a bottle whereas P&O charge you approx. £17-£25 a bottle for most wines.   That's £6-£7 from majestic for ordinary public punters.   Imagine how little Carnival pay for it with a colossal bulk order !!!

 

The Kaiken Malbec that I also liked was about £7 in Majestic too !   It's been replaced now but likely with something similarly priced.

 

 

 

 

A wine is only as 'good' as it tastes in each person's mouth.  I have also thoroughly enjoyed the Billi Billi in the past regardless of whether a 'wine connoisseur' believes it to be a 'good wine'.  For someone who appears to enjoy a glass of wine and shops in Majestic, I am staggered that you appeared not to know that all land restaurants and cruise ships have a massive mark up on this product.

[Selbourne]

42 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

The thing is Bee-ess those "catchy named" wines aren't really that good and they are selected purely for their name because they know passengers will find it a novelty and remember the name and keep ordering it as a result.  "Billi Billi" shiraz, Kung Fu Riesling etc etc.   I was (naively) staggered to find some of those wines in my local Majestic store not long ago and there were about £6-£7 a bottle whereas P&O charge you approx. £17-£25 a bottle for most wines.   That's £6-£7 from majestic for ordinary public punters.   Imagine how little Carnival pay for it with a colossal bulk order !!!

 

The Kaiken Malbec that I also liked was about £7 in Majestic too !   It's been replaced now but likely with something similarly priced.

 

 

 

 

The mark up that you quote is far less than the vast majority of land based hotels or restaurants. We feel that P&O prices for wines are very reasonable. Perhaps we have unrefined taste (though I don’t think so, as we can’t stomach the paint stripper white and  revolting acrid fizz that they laughingly pass of as Champagne at the drinks parties onboard), but we like the Billi Billi Shiraz! Our favourite wine producer is D’Arenberg and many of their wines have catchy names. They certainly aren’t cheap wines. Although we are prepared to pay decent money for good wine, I feel that there’s a lot of snobbery about wine and it is perfectly possible to find very nice wine for under £5 a bottle in supermarkets. Best one we had lately was Hardy’s Endeavour, which was £8.99 down to £5.99 in Waitrose, less 5% case discount less a further 20% off with a voucher (that they regularly send me) so they cost me about £4.50 a bottle. Lovely wine and I stocked up on a few cases. I don’t expect to pay £4.50 if I see it in a restaurant though and would consider £20 to be reasonable. 

[Adawn47]

19 minutes ago, cjthedjeu said:

I don't understand, you are not being forced to pay for the wine, if you don't want it or think it is way overpriced then don't buy it, but I have often seen wines in restaurants, wine bars or cruise ships that you know you could buy yourself much cheaper but you are paying the premium for the location and overheads of that particular establishment rather than drinking the bottle at home.

If you took your own cheaper wine into the restaurant you would be charged corkage. I don't understand this discussion about the cost of wines on the ship versus the supermarket. I'm  on holiday. If I want a bottle of wine I'll get one without worrying if I'm big ripped off. I'll worry about budgeting when I'm home. 

[Eglesbrech]

23 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

I always have a quiet chuckle as they still ask if you want to taste the wine when it comes with a scew cap, not all that knowledgable in this case.

Screw cap wine can still be off so still needs tasted. It’s less likely than with a proper cork but it happens so you still need to taste it or get landed with a bottle of undrinkable wine.

[terrierjohn]

10 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Screw cap wine can still be off so still needs tasted. It’s less likely than with a proper cork but it happens so you still need to taste it or get landed with a bottle of undrinkable wine.

Yes it is possible but far far rarer than a cork sealed bottle.  The contaminant that causes the bad taste would need to be introduced before bottling, and should be identified before that process. So your chances of finding one is extremely unlikely, and if you are repeating a bottle you have already had on the cruise, then tasting again I find unnecessary.

[Eglesbrech]

11 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Yes it is possible but far far rarer than a cork sealed bottle.  The contaminant that causes the bad taste would need to be introduced before bottling, and should be identified before that process. So your chances of finding one is extremely unlikely, and if you are repeating a bottle you have already had on the cruise, then tasting again I find unnecessary.

To each their own. I was just surprised by you suggesting that it was worth “chuckling” at when it is a perfectly legitimate process and one I would expect the wine staff to adhere to.

 

Happy cruising and may your wine never be spoiled 🥂

[bee-ess]

3 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

The thing is Bee-ess those "catchy named" wines aren't really that good and they are selected purely for their name because they know passengers will find it a novelty and remember the name and keep ordering it as a result.  "Billi Billi" shiraz, Kung Fu Riesling etc etc.   I was (naively) staggered to find some of those wines in my local Majestic store not long ago and there were about £6-£7 a bottle whereas P&O charge you approx. £17-£25 a bottle for most wines.   That's £6-£7 from majestic for ordinary public punters.   Imagine how little Carnival pay for it with a colossal bulk order !!!

 

The Kaiken Malbec that I also liked was about £7 in Majestic too !   It's been replaced now but likely with something similarly priced.

 

 

 

 

I think it is about what you like not what are supposed to like