Britain's biggest cruise operator is becoming 'Butlins on Sea', Which? survey finds (today's Telegraph)

[Adawn47]

Oh yes definitely school dinners. So not like P&O. 

[Bazrat]

4 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

I suspect that one of the comparisons being made by those who provided their views to Which? was the increasingly similar customer base - not solely the product itself.

Actually the customer base was limited to a few thousand who subscribe to which,those compared high end price wise cruises to those aimed at the mass market.

[Eglesbrech]

1 minute ago, Adawn47 said:

Oh yes definitely school dinners. So not like P&O. 

Indeed

[Bazrat]

3 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

I’ve personally never compared P&O to Butlins as I have actually been, many many years ago.

 

I remember the entertainment being very good but the food was truly awful. It was back in the days when you were actually served at the table (like school dinners) and the soup was poured into the bowls at the table from what looked like large teapots, you got a half slice of white bread, grey meat and 2 (overcooked) veg and pudding you could have bounced off the walls with lumpy custard. But we still had family fun.

I am beginning to feel like I missed out when I was younger not going to Butlins we had to put up with Blackpool.

[Selbourne]

All this talk of Butlin’s (following Harry’s quote, lifted by Which? from his feedback to the survey - am I the only one to have clocked this? 😉) has made me check out their entertainment. If P&O’s entertainment matched many of these ‘big weekend’ line ups, then I could be tempted to book more P&O cruises for the entertainment alone! Given that ‘entertainment’ is P&O’s current weak point IMO, that would be a real turnaround. That being said, we have had an email today on the line up for Iona’s maiden cruise and I was pleasantly surprised. 
 

https://www.bigweekends.com

[terrierjohn]

12 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

I suspect that one of the comparisons being made by those who provided their views to Which? was the increasingly similar customer base - not solely the product itself.

If a comment on another forum was correct, only 68 people in the which report had ever been on a P&O ship, so a very small sample, and no info was given on when, where, which ship and for how long; and we all know that short cruises were notorious for stag & hen parties, and still attract a different clientele to longer cruises.

[Harry Peterson]

14 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

If a comment on another forum was correct, only 68 people in the which report had ever been on a P&O ship, so a very small sample, and no info was given on when, where, which ship and for how long; and we all know that short cruises were notorious for stag & hen parties, and still attract a different clientele to longer cruises.

The P&O survey sample, according to the survey itself, was 504.  

[Harry Peterson]

22 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

All this talk of Butlin’s (following Harry’s quote, lifted by Which? from his feedback to the survey - am I the only one to have clocked this? 😉) 
 

https://www.bigweekends.com

That's a very rash - and factually incorrect - assumption I'm afraid, Selbourne.  You'll be aware, I'm sure, though, that this allegation has been made about P&O for quite some time, by a lot of people, and in these forums.  It's a common criticism, and I'd hazard a guess it would have been made several times to get a specific mention. 

[Harry Peterson]

9 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Then I was misinformed, but how many of those entries did you provide Harry?🤣

All 504 of them, of course - every one of them referring to Butlin's.  Except one, and that referred to Le Manoir aux Quat’Saisons, just as cover.

[Harry Peterson]

By the way, I went to Butlin's as a kid - loved every minute of it.  And my daughter takes her children every year - they love every minute of it too.  Great facilities, surprisingly good food, and excellent entertainment.

 

It tends not to float around the oceans though, which is a bit of a downer.  ☺️

[KnowTheScore]

50 minutes ago, AndyMichelle said:

Ventura is in great shape

 

 

lol you can't be serious !

 

The cruise before the Christmas cruise this year was stuck in Tenerife for many days due to the ship having lost all power and left drifting in the sea.  Tugs had to be sent out to fetch it into port where it stayed for 3 days if I remember right.   This is not the first time Ventura has had these kind of problems

 

The Christmas cruise had a pretty horrible first 3 days down to the Canaries in very rough seas.  I was in a mid-ship balcony cabin and the swell was causing an incredibly loud banging and pummelling from something in the inside of the ship, behind the interior walls of inside cabins yet so loud that it was like someone with a sledgehammer pounding on the wall.   I figured it must be some enormous steel bulk head door that hadn't been secure and I reported it out of pure concern for the damage it might well be doing and to the danger it must be to crew members walking around in that interior space.   A security lady happened by and after I mentioned it she also looked very concerned.   Later I saw her standing side by side with my cabin steward and discovered the truth.   "Oh" he said, "it happens on every cruise wen the sea is rough" !!!!    So that's a clear long standing problem with something loose inside that P&O simply aren't bothered about fixing.   It was impossible to sleep with that incredible thumping going on.

 

Down below on deck 5 regular cruisers will know about the fairly loud noise and juddering caused by the stabilisers in rough seas.  It's always been the same any time I have sailed with Ventura.   I would hate to have a cabin down on deck 5.

 

Costa coffee bar and related area in the Atrium remains utter pandemonium, with not enough seating to accommodate the needs of 3000 passengers.   If they ceased using the atrium for stupid line dancing and other things they could put more decent seating down there and earn more revenue from coffee sales.

 

Ventura's lifts looked in a sorry state.  One wasn't working properly throughout much of the cruise.   Displayed deck 34 at one point !   Refused to stop at deck 6 going up or down and so on.   Lift doors were scratched and dented.

 

Glass House, which when first introduced was a lively wine bar and eating area has become an old folks home with passengers using it like a lounge, sitting there knitting or reading or lolling asleep.   I don't mean the seating in the corridor I mean the seating inside.  It's supposed to be a wine bar come lunch restaurant.  It's frankly a total joke now.

 

Balcony seating was dirty and sticky.

 

I now bring my own window cleaning wiper blade to clean balcony glass which is invariably filthy.  In days gone by you would see the crew operating the window washing gantry almost every port.   Now they hardly seem to bother.

 

So no.  I don't think Ventura is in particularly great shape and I don't plan to sail with her again for a wide variety of reasons.

Edited February 4, 2020 by KnowTheScore

[Britboys]

52 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

 

There's the rub.  "A bit more"?!!!

 

An example.   Christmas / New Year cruise on Ventura last year was £4000 for a balcony cabin

Exact same cruise this Christmas just gone on Aurora, exact same ports, was £8000 for a balcony.

 

"A bit more" would be fine.  100% increase is just disgusting.   Aurora is a super ship but certainly not worth double the price of other ships.

 

 

 

 

But you are not comparing like with like.  Ventura is a much bigger ship with five and half decks of balcony cabins, housing up to 170 individual cabins.  Aurora has just over three decks of balcony cabins, giving approximately 140 individual cabins.  Its supply and demand.  You pay your money and you take your choice...

[KnowTheScore]

27 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

If a comment on another forum was correct, only 68 people in the which report had ever been on a P&O ship, so a very small sample, and no info was given on when, where, which ship and for how long;

 

 

There seem to be attempts to play down the which? report and other criticisms.   Pointless exercise because there are tons of people disenchanted with P&O at the moment.  I spoke to loads of them on the Christmas cruise just gone, most resolved to switch to another line.  But one doesn't need to even look at the Which? report.  One needs only read the various cruise reviews on this very site to see the picture:

 

A sprinkling here:

 

Worst food and service at sea
https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=674293

Tatty
https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=676314

Last time with P and O
https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=677051

Holiday camp at sea
https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=676621

P&O poorly operated.
https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=675011

Benidorm at sea.
https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=674747

 

 

 

[Britboys]

6 minutes ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

 

There seem to be attempts to play down the which? report and other criticisms.   Pointless exercise because there are tons of people disenchanted with P&O at the moment.  I spoke to loads of them on the Christmas cruise just gone, most resolved to switch to another line.  But one doesn't need to even look at the Which? report.  One needs only read the various cruise reviews on this very site to see the picture:

 

A sprinkling here:

 

Worst food and service at sea
https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=674293

Tatty
https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=676314

Last time with P and O
https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=677051

Holiday camp at sea
https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=676621

P&O poorly operated.
https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=675011

Benidorm at sea.
https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=674747

 

 

 

I think we now all have a very good impression on what you think of today's P&O.  You have made your point very clearly.  A couple of us have suggested some lines you might find more to your taste.  I do hope that you and the above reviewers are able to find your spiritual cruising home soon.

[peteukmcr]

2 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

 

It used to be fine.  Understand that I have done 30+ cruises with P&O over the past 15 years.

 

It's now the right time to make a switch imho.  Carnival have pecked away at the brand and service too much.

30+ cruises with P&O but only slightly more than that number of posts on cruise critic and specifically this board and mostly negative. Why wait until now after all your cruises?

Edited February 4, 2020 by peteukmcr

[KnowTheScore]

30 minutes ago, peteukmcr said:

30+ cruises with P&O but only slightly more than that number of posts on cruise critic and specifically this board and mostly negative. Why wait until now after all your cruises?

 

This is the P&O related board.  Why would I post P&O related opinions and feedback elsewhere?!!

 

Why now?   Because I've recently reached the point where enough is enough for me personally.

 

My primary purpose in joining was to discuss the Coronavirus crisis and hopefully to gain the feedback and opinions of other cruisers but I then noticed other threads inc this one discussing the dumbing down of the whole experience so decided to add my viewpoints.   Thanks for your interest.

 

 

 

 

 

[Elaine0138]

10 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

 

It used to be fine.  Understand that I have done 30+ cruises with P&O over the past 15 years.

 

It's now the right time to make a switch imho.  Carnival have pecked away at the brand and service too much.

Know the Score would you keep on buying a product from the supermarket if you didn't like it, so why keep handing over your money to a cruiseline you don't like anymore. We have tried a fair few cruiselines over the years, some we wouldn't go back to, others we really enjoy.  Why tie yourself to one brand we sailed on RCI Anthem of the Seas and loved it which was a surprise to us, the escape room was fun, the solarium at the front of the ship was a fabulous place to sit and relax. This time we are off on Aurora, there is something for everyone out their.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Elaine0138

[Selbourne]

8 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

All 504 of them, of course - every one of them referring to Butlin's.  Except one, and that referred to Le Manoir aux Quat’Saisons, just as cover.

Although said in jest, there’s an irony to that comment Harry, given that much of the commentary in this thread is about lowering standards. 
 

When we went to Le Manoir we were quite surprised to see a young couple (late 20’s / early 30’s) demonstrating poor standards in a supposedly high class establishment. He was dressed in a t-shirt and had scruffy jeans on (that were doubtless designer ones but still looked a mess) with his chair pulled out from the table and he was sprawled out as though he was completely disengaged whilst constantly tapping on his phone (without the irritating typing ‘clicks’ or chimes as the responding texts came in silenced). Much to  my surprise there was no challenge from the staff. The food was pretty good (but not exceptional) and the service was patchy. We have had better meals and service in The Epicurean on Britannia!

[Selbourne]

8 hours ago, Harry Peterson said:

By the way, I went to Butlin's as a kid - loved every minute of it.  And my daughter takes her children every year - they love every minute of it too.  Great facilities, surprisingly good food, and excellent entertainment.

 

It tends not to float around the oceans though, which is a bit of a downer.  ☺️

I last went to Butlin’s as a kid (and enjoyed it) but my perception nowadays is that you’d have to pay me to go as an adult. That being said, your summary makes it sound excellent. I wonder, therefore, why it’s used in such a disparaging way when comparing it with P&O? I wouldn’t say that P&O has lived up to all three of the attributes highlighted in your post on every cruise that we have been on. 

[Harry Peterson]

7 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

Although said in jest, there’s an irony to that comment Harry, given that much of the commentary in this thread is about lowering standards. 
 

When we went to Le Manoir we were quite surprised to see a young couple (late 20’s / early 30’s) demonstrating poor standards in a supposedly high class establishment. He was dressed in a t-shirt and had scruffy jeans on (that were doubtless designer ones but still looked a mess) with his chair pulled out from the table and he was sprawled out as though he was completely disengaged whilst constantly tapping on his phone (without the irritating typing ‘clicks’ or chimes as the responding texts came in silenced). Much to  my surprise there was no challenge from the staff. The food was pretty good (but not exceptional) and the service was patchy. We have had better meals and service in The Epicurean on Britannia!

There’s no dress code at Le Manoir, of course, or at most high end restaurants, but I’d have been put off by the couple you mention.  We’ve never encountered this, though, and always found both food and service to be exceptional.

 

I do agree though that the Epicurean is very good indeed.  I’m guessing, but maybe the MDRs were once like this. Certainly the Cunard liners of the 50s were, but that was a different age.

[bee-ess]

10 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

 

Nonetheless a part of the money you are being charged for is for on-board entertainment just as it is for food.  You can't opt out of that from a pricing perspective in which case there ought to be a decent level of entertainment and food standard.

For me personally those standards have dropped significantly and thus the value for money proposition has changed dramatically.

Who have you seen in the good old days that were higher profile than Gary Barlow and Tony Hadley, both recently announced. You may not like them but they are a pretty good level for a cruise ship.

[bee-ess]

10 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

 

If Harry and Knowthescore can find a similar quality cruise to P&O for a similar price with any other line, then good luck to them.

They can't, that is why they are on here moaning about P&O. If I had that many complaints about P&O I wouldn't even consider  cruising with them, let alone waste time churning up the same comments on their forum.

[Harry Peterson]

7 minutes ago, bee-ess said:

Who have you seen in the good old days that were higher profile than Gary Barlow and Tony Hadley, both recently announced. You may not like them but they are a pretty good level for a cruise ship.

I know little about either of these two, but are they actually doing much in the way of performing?

 

All I’ve ever encountered is pub act comics and singers. Can’t recall anything more than that.

[AndyMichelle]

9 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

 

lol you can't be serious !

 

The cruise before the Christmas cruise this year was stuck in Tenerife for many days due to the ship having lost all power and left drifting in the sea.  Tugs had to be sent out to fetch it into port where it stayed for 3 days if I remember right.   This is not the first time Ventura has had these kind of problems

 

The Christmas cruise had a pretty horrible first 3 days down to the Canaries in very rough seas.  I was in a mid-ship balcony cabin and the swell was causing an incredibly loud banging and pummelling from something in the inside of the ship, behind the interior walls of inside cabins yet so loud that it was like someone with a sledgehammer pounding on the wall.   I figured it must be some enormous steel bulk head door that hadn't been secure and I reported it out of pure concern for the damage it might well be doing and to the danger it must be to crew members walking around in that interior space.   A security lady happened by and after I mentioned it she also looked very concerned.   Later I saw her standing side by side with my cabin steward and discovered the truth.   "Oh" he said, "it happens on every cruise wen the sea is rough" !!!!    So that's a clear long standing problem with something loose inside that P&O simply aren't bothered about fixing.   It was impossible to sleep with that incredible thumping going on.

 

Down below on deck 5 regular cruisers will know about the fairly loud noise and juddering caused by the stabilisers in rough seas.  It's always been the same any time I have sailed with Ventura.   I would hate to have a cabin down on deck 5.

 

Costa coffee bar and related area in the Atrium remains utter pandemonium, with not enough seating to accommodate the needs of 3000 passengers.   If they ceased using the atrium for stupid line dancing and other things they could put more decent seating down there and earn more revenue from coffee sales.

 

Ventura's lifts looked in a sorry state.  One wasn't working properly throughout much of the cruise.   Displayed deck 34 at one point !   Refused to stop at deck 6 going up or down and so on.   Lift doors were scratched and dented.

 

Glass House, which when first introduced was a lively wine bar and eating area has become an old folks home with passengers using it like a lounge, sitting there knitting or reading or lolling asleep.   I don't mean the seating in the corridor I mean the seating inside.  It's supposed to be a wine bar come lunch restaurant.  It's frankly a total joke now.

 

Balcony seating was dirty and sticky.

 

I now bring my own window cleaning wiper blade to clean balcony glass which is invariably filthy.  In days gone by you would see the crew operating the window washing gantry almost every port.   Now they hardly seem to bother.

 

So no.  I don't think Ventura is in particularly great shape and I don't plan to sail with her again for a wide variety of reasons.

It's funny how we perceive things differently... 

We were on Ventura at New Year and did not encounter one problem with the ship. 

Apart from the staff being overrun, we had a fantastic time. 

I am not going to let a scratched lift door spoil my holiday... 

I would, however, not be happy with being kept awake, but fortunately, I slept like a log... 

Andy 

[bee-ess]

9 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

 

lol you can't be serious !

 

The cruise before the Christmas cruise this year was stuck in Tenerife for many days due to the ship having lost all power and left drifting in the sea.  Tugs had to be sent out to fetch it into port where it stayed for 3 days if I remember right.   This is not the first time Ventura has had these kind of problems

 

The Christmas cruise had a pretty horrible first 3 days down to the Canaries in very rough seas.  I was in a mid-ship balcony cabin and the swell was causing an incredibly loud banging and pummelling from something in the inside of the ship, behind the interior walls of inside cabins yet so loud that it was like someone with a sledgehammer pounding on the wall.   I figured it must be some enormous steel bulk head door that hadn't been secure and I reported it out of pure concern for the damage it might well be doing and to the danger it must be to crew members walking around in that interior space.   A security lady happened by and after I mentioned it she also looked very concerned.   Later I saw her standing side by side with my cabin steward and discovered the truth.   "Oh" he said, "it happens on every cruise wen the sea is rough" !!!!    So that's a clear long standing problem with something loose inside that P&O simply aren't bothered about fixing.   It was impossible to sleep with that incredible thumping going on.

 

Down below on deck 5 regular cruisers will know about the fairly loud noise and juddering caused by the stabilisers in rough seas.  It's always been the same any time I have sailed with Ventura.   I would hate to have a cabin down on deck 5.

 

Costa coffee bar and related area in the Atrium remains utter pandemonium, with not enough seating to accommodate the needs of 3000 passengers.   If they ceased using the atrium for stupid line dancing and other things they could put more decent seating down there and earn more revenue from coffee sales.

 

Ventura's lifts looked in a sorry state.  One wasn't working properly throughout much of the cruise.   Displayed deck 34 at one point !   Refused to stop at deck 6 going up or down and so on.   Lift doors were scratched and dented.

 

Glass House, which when first introduced was a lively wine bar and eating area has become an old folks home with passengers using it like a lounge, sitting there knitting or reading or lolling asleep.   I don't mean the seating in the corridor I mean the seating inside.  It's supposed to be a wine bar come lunch restaurant.  It's frankly a total joke now.

 

Balcony seating was dirty and sticky.

 

I now bring my own window cleaning wiper blade to clean balcony glass which is invariably filthy.  In days gone by you would see the crew operating the window washing gantry almost every port.   Now they hardly seem to bother.

 

So no.  I don't think Ventura is in particularly great shape and I don't plan to sail with her again for a wide variety of reasons.

Wow that;s bad, why would you just not move on to another cruise line