PRINCESS SHIPS & CORONA VIRUS

[caribill]

11 hours ago, npcl said:

the Flu, Noro and Strep and much shorter incubation times.   If one decided that they needed quarantine the length would vary based upon the illness.  Noro for example does not spread until symptoms exist and then by surface contact, not an URI, So there quarantine is only a few days.

 

Noro (per the CDC) is contagious for several days after a patient has recovered.

[Pushka]

RCCL has banned all Chinese/Hong Kong and Macau passport holders from embarkation regardless of time since last visit. I think NCL has done the same. 

[caribill]

8 hours ago, TNTLAMB said:

IMO It wouldn't be a "restart" if the quarantine needed be extended. Her removal might be enough of she has had no other contact with PAX. From what is known it would -2 days from her husband being removed. However if she hasn't developed symptoms by now, she's not likely to. Granted its been a few years since I worked in that area and my expertise was bacterial not viral transmission. The two are very similar but different.

 

Not every person who gets the virus will actually become sick, but they can still pass the virus on to others until it is totally out of their system.

[senior lady]

I can't imagine what the Olympic association is doing right now.  The summer games are in Tokyo in July.  What a nightmare if that has to be cancelled or moved.  I'm sure that is why the Japanese authorities are being to stringent on this issue 

[caribill]

22 minutes ago, Pushka said:

RCCL has banned all Chinese/Hong Kong and Macau passport holders from embarkation regardless of time since last visit. I think NCL has done the same. 

 

Seems like an over-reaction to me, denying boarding based on what a passport is from, not where the person has actually been.

 

A Chinese national who has been in the USA with a visa or green card for several years would be denied boarding.

[Pushka]

4 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Seems like an over-reaction to me, denying boarding based on what a passport is from, not where the person has actually been.

 

A Chinese national who has been in the USA with a visa or green card for several years would be denied boarding.

Yes, it is draconian. I think the cruise lines are very very worried. 

[Mrs CruisinCritter]

8 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Yes, it is draconian. I think the cruise lines are very very worried. 

I think the hardest part for the cruise lines is that they have no system to check passports to see where you’ve travelled In the days prior to embarkation day. They could take the time to look at stamps, but that isn’t always a reliable way and can be very time consuming given the limited amount of time they have to complete the check-in process before scheduled departure.
 

They are forced to rely on the honor system when trying to determine if someone has been in contact with a potentially infected person or has travelled to or from an impacted area within xx number of days prior to the cruise, which as we know from the days when many cruise lines required pax to complete health questionnaires prior to boarding how that worked out.
 

After paying travel expenses and planning for a cruise vacation, many people were dishonest about feeling ill or having been sick recently. That’s why they stopped having pax complete them and now just ask the question at check-in for most cruise lines. Still relying on the honor system of course. 

[Aus Traveller]

1 hour ago, Mrs CruisinCritter said:

I think the hardest part for the cruise lines is that they have no system to check passports to see where you’ve travelled In the days prior to embarkation day. They could take the time to look at stamps, but that isn’t always a reliable way and can be very time consuming given the limited amount of time they have to complete the check-in process before scheduled departure.

Agreed. It would take a long time to go through a well-used passport, checking the stamps and the date on them.

[idahospud]

Yes, they are requiring health forms. As I wrote on my blog this week, we had to fill them out when boarding the Royal Princess on Thursday. 

[fragilek]

2 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Seems like an over-reaction to me, denying boarding based on what a passport is from, not where the person has actually been.

 

A Chinese national who has been in the USA with a visa or green card for several years would be denied boarding.

 When the Sars outbreak to place our closets friends were coming up to visit us in Scotland from England. He is from Hong Kong - 40 yrs ago (went through school in Oban with my DH).  Their intention after visiting us was to drive over to east coast of Scotland to also visit his parents.  His parents, who had not been back to Hong Kong in decades stopped the visit.  They said living within the Chinese community had exposed them to risk as many undocumented people lived with this community.  They did not want their grandchildren near the risk. I assume avoidance of a situation like this that has set the bar at an abundance of caution.

[Aus Traveller]

2 hours ago, idahospud said:

Yes, they are requiring health forms. As I wrote on my blog this week, we had to fill them out when boarding the Royal Princess on Thursday. 

Clearly this is a new form. It is dated January, 2020. Presumably it came into use after the seriousness of the infection in Wuhan became apparent, but it cannot have been in use before the infected man joined the Diamond Princess. After all, he was from Hong Kong and his passport would have identified him as such.

[seapals2]

9 hours ago, YlangYlangF9PB3E said:

Unless, of course, it CAN be spread through ventilation or plumbing. That would break the quarantine.

or crew .. no one Is factoring that in.   Crew are not in quarantine.   Passengers will not have not been in contact with other passengers in other cabins for 14 days so if they then show symptoms in a few days it can only have been spread by ventilation or crew.  
Of course in the case of passengers in the same cabin then quarantine must be extended.  

[Debate]

4 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

Agreed. It would take a long time to go through a well-used passport, checking the stamps and the date on them.

I was told by our travel agent that 3 days before our cruise the manifest is sent to the government for a screening and background check.  She said this where all passengers are flagged if they’ve travelled to China or another restricted place.  If you are flagged you get a phone call.  This information gave me a bit of comfort to know it’s not just the honor system.  She assured me it wasn’t.  She said this is always done to screen for passengers that are on do not travel list or have criminal backgrounds that restrict travel.  

[LDVinNC]

17 hours ago, Felix331 said:

For everyone talking about the south pacific changes, this is due to the measles outbreak going on there. Samoa wants proof of cruise passengers having the MMR vaccine or they won't take the ship. Hence why it was cancelled and why Fiji had been cancelled on previous cruises as well. 

Felix, do you know which ships, if any, have been prevented from docking in Samoa due to measles?  Is this recent or before they declared and end to the epidemic in December.  We are on a South Pacific cruise in April and I am curious.

[ehogan]

I have to say that I have no confidence that the new health declaration forms will be filled out honestly by all passengers.  
 

Having been on over 40 cruises I know just how quickly illnesses can spread on board in spite of taking all precautions.  Got a horrible respiratory infection on our September 2019 cruise which was filled with sick passengers from the previous leg of the back to back.   We had decided after that cruise to take a break from cruising in 2020 (thank you to the angel sitting on my shoulder!) and with recent developments we are cancelling our Diamond Princess cruise to Asia next year.
 

I think the cruise industry is well aware of the hugely negative impact this will have on the industry, hence some of the extreme measures they are taking (e.g.RCCL and NCL banning some passport holders).

 

We love to cruise and will continue to do so but we will pick and choose our itineraries carefully and always will continue to get the “cancel for any reason insurance)

 

 

[rsato]

Does anyone understand (or have heard) why Japan allowed the Diamond Princess to port with now 64 confirmed coronavirus cases but does not allow the HAL Westerdam with supposedly one patient with suspected (not confirmed) coronavirus cases to dock? Both ships were on Japanese itineraries with many Japanese nationals and had recent stops in Hong Kong.

[fragilek]

5 minutes ago, rsato said:

Does anyone understand (or have heard) why Japan allowed the Diamond Princess to port with now 64 confirmed coronavirus cases but does not allow the HAL Westerdam with supposedly one patient with suspected (not confirmed) coronavirus cases to dock? Both ships were on Japanese itineraries with many Japanese nationals and had recent stops in Hong Kong.

 I have only heard on social media sites - so take this with as many pinches of salt as you want - i am - it is said to be something to do with Hal picking up passengers in HK after the date Japan had said no HK/ china entry - Or not who knows

Edited February 8, 2020 by fragilek
sp

[Mrs CruisinCritter]

1 hour ago, fragilek said:

 I have only heard on social media sites - so take this with as many pinches of salt as you want - i am - it is said to be something to do with Hal picking up passengers in HK after the date Japan had said no HK/ china entry - Or not who knows

I believe I read this in at least one news article when Japan first refused the Westerdam and it made the news. Forgive me, but I am on my phone at the moment and cannot search for the article. I will try to find it when I have a chance. 
 

I was able to find the article. The travel restrictions went into place in Japan on Feb 1st. The restrictions were barring anyone holding a passport from the Hubei Provence or anyone infected or presumed to be due to showing symptoms. Japan is barring the Westerdam because they are stating that there are presumed or suspected cases of coronavirus onboard the ship. 
 

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20200201/p2g/00m/0na/006000c

Edited February 8, 2020 by Mrs CruisinCritter
Adding additional info

[elliair]

Passengers on the ship have been asked to stay inside their cabins to prevent new infections, and have expressed confusion and frustration about a quarantine expected to last until February 19.

 

American attorney Matt Smith, 57, and his wife Katherine, are among the luckier passengers, in a suite with their own balcony. But he told AFP that the 14-day quarantine was a “hard pill to swallow.”

 

“My thought is, the greater number they diagnose on the ship, the greater chance they’re going to find some reason to extend the quarantine,” he added.

 

“It’s a little disheartening.”

 

Passengers in windowless inside cabins have been allowed onto open decks only briefly, under strict conditions, including wearing a mask at all times.

 

“The quarantine officials require that you avoid congregating in large groups and maintain a separation of at least one metre (three feet) from each other when talking,” the ship’s captain said in an announcement on Friday morning.

“We require that you wear as a minimum, warm clothing, hat and a scarf if possible,” he added.

 

https://www.breitbart.com/news/coronavirus-cases-on-japan-cruise-ship-treble-to-61-2/#

[jwattle]

The following is a tweet from CLIA yesterday:

 

CLIA Statement on 2019-Novel Coronavirus Outbreak

WASHINGTON, DC (7 FEB 2020)—Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA), the leading voice of the global cruise industry, issued today the following statement in response to recent developments concerning the 2019-novel coronavirus outbreak and its impact on the global cruise industry.

“The health and safety of cruise passengers and crew is and remains the number one priority of CLIA and its member lines, which make up over 90% of ocean-going cruise capacity worldwide.

Given the evolving nature of the ongoing 2019-novel coronavirus outbreak—and based upon prevailing guidance from global health authorities, including the World Health Organization (WHO)—CLIA Members have adopted the following enhanced protocols for ocean-going guests and crew who have recently traveled from or through China, including Hong Kong and Macau. These enhanced policies, which are in effect as of 7 February 2020, build upon those which were implemented on 31 January 2020 and continue to allow for informed decisions on a case-by-case basis whether a guest or crewmember will be permitted to board.

• CLIA Members are to deny boarding to all persons who have traveled from, visited or transited via airports in China, including Hong Kong and Macau, within 14 days before embarkation. 

• CLIA Members are to deny boarding to all persons who, within 14 days before embarkation, have had close contact with, or helped care for, anyone suspected or diagnosed as having Coronavirus, or who is currently subject to health monitoring for possible exposure to Novel Coronavirus. 

• CLIA Members are to conduct preboarding screening necessary to effectuate these prevention measures. Enhanced screening and initial medical support are to be provided, as needed, to any persons exhibiting symptoms of suspected Novel Coronavirus.

In coordination with cruise lines, medical experts and regulators around the world, CLIA and its member lines will continue to closely monitor for new developments related to the coronavirus and will modify these policies as necessary with the utmost consideration for the health and safety of passengers and crew. Importantly, the cruise industry is one of the most well-equipped and experienced when it comes to managing and monitoring health conditions of those onboard, with outbreak prevention and response measures in place year-round. Furthermore, ships must be fitted with onboard medical facilities, with shipboard medical professionals available around the clock, 24/7, to provide initial medical care in the event of illness and help prevent disease transmission.”

[dog]

2 hours ago, rsato said:

Does anyone understand (or have heard) why Japan allowed the Diamond Princess to port with now 64 confirmed coronavirus cases but does not allow the HAL Westerdam with supposedly one patient with suspected (not confirmed) coronavirus cases to dock? Both ships were on Japanese itineraries with many Japanese nationals and had recent stops in Hong Kong.

The HAL website has a page with updates for Westerdam

[Cindy]

2 hours ago, Mrs CruisinCritter said:

Japan is barring the Westerdam because they are stating that there are presumed or suspected cases of coronavirus onboard the ship. 
 

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20200201/p2g/00m/0na/006000c

According to the most recent HAL update, they do not have any confirmed or suspected cases of Corona Virus on board:

 

Westerdam Update:
Westerdam is currently sailing on a southwesterly course off the coast of Taiwan to best position the ship to access potential port locations where we can disembark our guests.  We are evaluating several options and working with different governments for a swift resolution. 
 
Guests on board continue to be safe and well cared for. The ship is not in quarantine and we have no reason to believe there are any cases of coronavirus on board despite media reports. The ship has sufficient fuel and food provisions to last until the end of the voyage. We are providing free internet and phone access for guests and crew to stay in contact with their loved ones. Guests have been provided a full refund and a future cruise credit.
 
This is a very dynamic situation as we continue to manage around evolving and changing restrictions in the region. We sincerely thank our guests and crew on Westerdam — and their loved ones — for their patience during this extraordinary time.
 
The latest information will continue to be posted under the News & Travel Advisory section of our website: http://*****/2va2gxX

 

[fragilek]

11 minutes ago, Cindy said:

According to the most recent HAL update, they do not have any confirmed or suspected cases of Corona Virus on board:

 

Westerdam Update:
Westerdam is currently sailing on a southwesterly course off the coast of Taiwan to best position the ship to access potential port locations where we can disembark our guests.  We are evaluating several options and working with different governments for a swift resolution. 
 
Guests on board continue to be safe and well cared for. The ship is not in quarantine and we have no reason to believe there are any cases of coronavirus on board despite media reports. The ship has sufficient fuel and food provisions to last until the end of the voyage. We are providing free internet and phone access for guests and crew to stay in contact with their loved ones. Guests have been provided a full refund and a future cruise credit.
 
This is a very dynamic situation as we continue to manage around evolving and changing restrictions in the region. We sincerely thank our guests and crew on Westerdam — and their loved ones — for their patience during this extraordinary time.
 
The latest information will continue to be posted under the News & Travel Advisory section of our website: http://*****/2va2gxX

 

 they could never have a confirmed case of the virus- only a handful of labs are licensed to undertake this test.   No ship can do this test.  All they can truly say is that no-one is displaying any symptoms . Royal are awaiting tests coming back from Atlanta (so even although New York hospitals have the test kits now conformation of results from CDC still released via Atlanta, I don't even know if the tests in other areas are even being used yet, may be for preliminary results - not sure) .  

Edited February 8, 2020 by fragilek
sp

[Mrs CruisinCritter]

21 minutes ago, Cindy said:

According to the most recent HAL update, they do not have any confirmed or suspected cases of Corona Virus on board:

 

Westerdam Update:
Westerdam is currently sailing on a southwesterly course off the coast of Taiwan to best position the ship to access potential port locations where we can disembark our guests.  We are evaluating several options and working with different governments for a swift resolution. 
 
Guests on board continue to be safe and well cared for. The ship is not in quarantine and we have no reason to believe there are any cases of coronavirus on board despite media reports. The ship has sufficient fuel and food provisions to last until the end of the voyage. We are providing free internet and phone access for guests and crew to stay in contact with their loved ones. Guests have been provided a full refund and a future cruise credit.
 
This is a very dynamic situation as we continue to manage around evolving and changing restrictions in the region. We sincerely thank our guests and crew on Westerdam — and their loved ones — for their patience during this extraordinary time.
 
The latest information will continue to be posted under the News & Travel Advisory section of our website: http://*****/2va2gxX

 

I was referring to Japan, not Hal. Japan’s PM stated that the country would not allow the Hal ship to dock because they assume there will be suspected cases on board due to the ship leaving out of Hong Kong.
 

Patient 0 in the Diamond Princess ordeal travelled to Hong Kong and that is where they are suspecting he contracted the virus before boarding the Diamond. They are using caution. The incubation period for the virus is 14 days so the only way to prevent possible spread of the virus from the Westerdam into Japan from asymptomatic people is to prevent docking for the 14 day incubation period at a minimum.
 

Perhaps a country will allow the ship to dock at that point if it comes to that and there are no passengers displaying signs of illness at that point. If they aren’t allowed to dock and disembark passengers prior to that point. 
 

How long was the Westerdam’s original itinerary? Wasn’t it for 14 days? 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Mrs CruisinCritter
Adding additional info

[gottagocit]

The obvious question that comes to mind is what is to happen to passengers onboard the HAL ship, or any other for that matter, who show symptoms or have the virus if the ship can not dock to allow them to be moved to a hospital equipped to handle the infection?