Don’t go on a cruise!

[crystalspin]

Here's one for @navybankerteacher -- what about aircraft carriers and other navy ships? Quantities of people in greater density than any cruise ship. Sailors go ashore, or come from training ashore... will every one of them have to go in quarantine before being herded from 6' distance onto a ship?

[MicCanberra]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course there are differences involving necessity.  Not all activity need be closed down —— work places and food stores are essential, schools less so - and are of particular concern because the coming and going of difficult-to-control children put them near the top,of the list for closing. Shopping malls serve some purpose - and could be controlled by strictly limiting numbers so people would not be in close contact.   But cruising - we all like it, however it is one activity high on the list of contagion sites - and bottom of the list of essential activities.

So churches should be closed as well, too many people assembling in non essential activities. Perhaps, Hospitals should close as the transmission of sickness is rife in those buildings.

[MicCanberra]

4 minutes ago, crystalspin said:

Here's one for @navybankerteacher -- what about aircraft carriers and other navy ships? Quantities of people in greater density than any cruise ship. Sailors go ashore, or come from training ashore... will every one of them have to go in quarantine before being herded from 6' distance onto a ship?

As there is no essential war at the moment, perhaps all defence forces should be brought home and quarantined.

[That sinking feeling]

Maybe we should all just go and hide and live in a cave. The world, including the politicians, has gone bonkers.

 

I am currently on a very busy train and guess what? Most people are just carrying on as normal.

 

Yet the media, the political classes, and a certain element of the public have gone completely off the rails.

 

This would never have happened pre social media.its time to ban 24 hour news channels and the internet.

 

Barking mad.

Edited March 9, 2020 by That sinking feeling

[navybankerteacher]

8 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

As there is no essential war at the moment, perhaps all defence forces should be brought home and quarantined.

An uninformed statement re the necessity/utility of defense forces.  The best defense forces are those which are so respected that they are not challenged.  

[navybankerteacher]

8 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

So churches should be closed as well, too many people assembling in non essential activities. Perhaps, Hospitals should close as the transmission of sickness is rife in those buildings.

As a matter of fact, many churches have taken steps - such as urging congregants to avoid close contact and abandoning use of wine chalices in a key part of ritual; and to skip attending service if they feel symptomatic.   People have been advised to avoid unnecessary trips to hospitals - and, specifically, to NOT go to the ER if they feel they have symptoms - rather to telephone so appropriate admission procedures.  

 

People have generally been advised to avoid unnecessary travel: Amtrak is cutting service, airlines are cutting flights — yet the cruise industry (a known transmission conduit) which only provides unnecessary travel - and which has supposedly regularly taken steps to prevent contagion - has been shown to be incapable of effectively doing so with regard to corona.

Edited March 9, 2020 by navybankerteacher

[lenquixote66]

23 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

As a matter of fact, many churches have taken steps - such as urging congregants to avoid close contact and abandoning use of wine chalices in a key part of ritual; and to skip attending service if they feel symptomatic.   People have been advised to avoid unnecessary trips to hospitals - and, specifically, to NOT go to the ER if they feel they have symptoms - rather to telephone so appropriate admission procedures.  

I have a doctors appointment this morning to discuss another possible surgery but even if I could I do not think I would go now.

When I was in a hospital two weeks ago an employee tested positive for the virus.

Edited March 9, 2020 by lenquixote66

[navybankerteacher]

4 hours ago, That sinking feeling said:

...

 

... its time to ban 24 hour news channels and the internet.

 

...

1918-1919 was pre-social media — and it is now generally acknowledged that the many millions of deaths were largely the result of people not being made aware of what was going on.

 

Oh yes - information is the enemy.

[GlamorousGirl]

11 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

The first three local cases in my area were all people who came back from cruises. The next were either also on cruises or came in contact with people who were on cruises. In my opinion if it were not for the cruise passengers spreading it would  have been handled a lot better. For the greater good cruises need to be suspended temporarily. 

It spreads in crowds. That’s how it spread in China. I’m in Atlantic City, and going to NYC, before my cruise on the 15th. I feel no more safe in the crowds of the casinos, and will feel no more safe on the crowded streets of NY, than I will on the ship. I wiped down my hotel room just like I will my cruise cabin. The only way to guarantee safety is stay home, hermit like, and have your groceries delivered by mail. If I wasn’t already booked on this travel, I wouldn’t book it now because frankly the feelings of paranoia are putting a damper on it. But it’s either go out and live or lock myself at home and have contact with no one - which is nearly impossible. Frankly, singling out cruises does people a disservice, thinking they’re safe in other crowds. I don’t see anyone else wiping down the machines in the casino or staying 6 feet away from strangers. I’m just going to do everything I can to avoid catching it - which I’d have to do everywhere...

[mayleeman]

12 minutes ago, GlamorousGirl said:

Frankly, singling out cruises does people a disservice, thinking they’re safe in other crowds.

 

Look at Italy to see the response in a place where it has hit hard. Almost all places with crowds are closed. N Italy virtually closed off and even church weddings are prohibited.

 

All the advice from health experts says to avoid crowds if possible. I don't see anyone suggesting only cruises are implicated. They just obviously pack people into dense conditions for many days at a time.

 

Edited March 9, 2020 by mayleeman

[That sinking feeling]

41 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

1918-1919 was pre-social media — and it is now generally acknowledged that the many millions of deaths were largely the result of people not being made aware of what was going on.

 

Oh yes - information is the enemy.

Information isn't. 24 hour  media news chammel  frenzies are. Dont you think the media is loving this?.

Edited March 9, 2020 by That sinking feeling

[pacruise804]

15 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

The state department has come around to my position. I thought they would. 
 

State department advisory. Don’t go on cruises. 
 

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/before-you-go/travelers-with-special-considerations/cruise-ship-passengers.html?fbclid=IwAR23mRlu4-382HLuSM8i0KWQBSaZ4heDniggmxR3kBR6e2EgWiKr6B0EseM

 

I found this bit interesting from your post:

Passengers on Cruise Ships

 

Special Note for Cuba Travel:

• Ensure shore excursions and purchases comply with U.S. regulations.
• U.S. credit and debit cards do NOT work in Cuba. Bring enough cash to cover your stay. This includes hotels, restaurants, taxis, souvenir shops, etc.

When did we start Cuba travel again?

 

 

9 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

So churches should be closed as well, too many people assembling in non essential activities. Perhaps, Hospitals should close as the transmission of sickness is rife in those buildings.

I participate in an international Bible study and they recently sent an e-mail that groups in the affected areas are suspending meetings and instead will meet via online conference service.  Our church was very empty this weekend (both services, not just due to time change) and it is suspected people are self-isolating as a precaution.  Fortunately there are lots of on-line options for corporate worship.

Even many medical issues can be dealt with on-line or through a phone call.

[navybankerteacher]

18 minutes ago, That sinking feeling said:

Information isn't. 24 hour  media news chammel  frenzies are. Dont you think the media is loving this?.

Oh, yes: the media is loving all this free material.  Sadly, there is very little real journalism these days:  even “news shows” are run as entertainment - with people who are more actor than journalist, dressed to impress, spewing the most effective audience bait.

 

That does not negate the fact that we are facing an as-yet not fully understood situation.  There may, of course, be a silver lining:  just imagine how all governments’ retirement plans will benefit if everyone much over 65 leaves the stage - a culling of the no-longer productive members of society who use up the lions share of medical expenses, while sparing the younger, whose taxes largely go to support the geriatrics.

 

(I am speaking as one of the “elderly” who is among the threatened.)

 

But - back on topic :  the degradation of the information business does not mean that we should not try to be aware of what is going on in this developing story.

[ducklite]

11 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

The government telling cruise lines to do it is under discussion. The lines might decide on their own to temporarily suspend cruises depending on the number who have canceled or will cancel with the new advisory. They are not going to sail empty ships or near empty ships. 
 

 

The government can't do a darn thing about cruises that don't start/end in a US port.  And they can't stop those of us who cruise everywhere but from US ports from leaving the country to take a cruise.  And guess what, we don't need to tell them we were on a cruise.  "Tourism" is the only answer we need to give as to why we left the country unless specifically asked otherwise.   Or are you now suggesting that we shut the boarders entirely?  That would seem foolish considering it's already here.

[navybankerteacher]

18 minutes ago, ducklite said:

The government can't do a darn thing about cruises that don't start/end in a US port.  And they can't stop those of us who cruise everywhere but from US ports from leaving the country to take a cruise.  And guess what, we don't need to tell them we were on a cruise.  "Tourism" is the only answer we need to give as to why we left the country unless specifically asked otherwise.   Or are you now suggesting that we shut the boarders entirely?  That would seem foolish considering it's already here.

Of course, a significant percentage of cruises - and probably a majority of US cruisers DO start/end in US ports; and US residents returning from overseas can be quarantined.

[That sinking feeling]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Oh, yes: the media is loving all this free material.  Sadly, there is very little real journalism these days:  even “news shows” are run as entertainment - with people who are more actor than journalist, dressed to impress, spewing the most effective audience bait.

 

That does not negate the fact that we are facing an as-yet not fully understood situation.  There may, of course, be a silver lining:  just imagine how all governments’ retirement plans will benefit if everyone much over 65 leaves the stage - a culling of the no-longer productive members of society who use up the lions share of medical expenses, while sparing the younger, whose taxes largely go to support the geriatrics.

 

(I am speaking as one of the “elderly” who is among the threatened.)

 

But - back on topic :  the degradation of the information business does not mean that we should not try to be aware of what is going on in this developing story.

I dont disagree with any of what yoh have said here. And I am not that young either and have elderly relatives.

 

Maybe it's my cynical disposition but I still  believe the media are making this whole situation a lot worse.

 

And in this litigation era the politicians are running scared.

 

It's like the weather forecasters these days always predict apocalyptic conditions when it turns out to be just very windy.

[exactorman51]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/canadas-top-doctor-warns-against-travelling-on-cruise-ships-over-covid-19/ar-BB10VU8N?li=AAggNb9&ocid=mailsignout

[Toofarfromthesea]

4 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

1918-1919 was pre-social media — and it is now generally acknowledged that the many millions of deaths were largely the result of people not being made aware of what was going on.

 

Oh yes - information is the enemy.

 

I saw something that, if true, startled me.  We had more deaths in ww1 due to illness than due to combat - primarily due to the Spanish flu.

[Toofarfromthesea]

3 hours ago, GlamorousGirl said:

It spreads in crowds. That’s how it spread in China. I’m in Atlantic City, and going to NYC, before my cruise on the 15th. I feel no more safe in the crowds of the casinos, and will feel no more safe on the crowded streets of NY, than I will on the ship. I wiped down my hotel room just like I will my cruise cabin. The only way to guarantee safety is stay home, hermit like, and have your groceries delivered by mail. If I wasn’t already booked on this travel, I wouldn’t book it now because frankly the feelings of paranoia are putting a damper on it. But it’s either go out and live or lock myself at home and have contact with no one - which is nearly impossible. Frankly, singling out cruises does people a disservice, thinking they’re safe in other crowds. I don’t see anyone else wiping down the machines in the casino or staying 6 feet away from strangers. I’m just going to do everything I can to avoid catching it - which I’d have to do everywhere...

 

It is not a question of safety, it is an issue of consequences.  If you are home and get the virus you self quarantine, and unless you are one of the ones with health issues and it hits you seriously, that's it.  But if you are on a cruise ship, if *anyone* is infected a lockdown/quarantine is imposed on you that is much more severe than home quarantine, plus your odds of getting infected go way up.  

[Toofarfromthesea]

3 hours ago, That sinking feeling said:

Information isn't. 24 hour  media news chammel  frenzies are. Dont you think the media is loving this?.

 

Just imagine the public reaction if they reported on the flu the way they do for the Wuhan virus.  Every day reports of thousands of new cases.  Every day reports of hundreds of deaths.

[navybankerteacher]

As a practical matter, if cruises continue to sail to/from US ports, a special fee should be added to each fare to cover the costs to the US Government involved in testing and quarantining passengers - much like the fees added to all tickets to cover the costs of 9/11 related Homeland Security scanning by TSA and related activities.  There is no reason for the average tax payer to have to cover the costs incurred by the US Governnent involved in cruise-related activity on the part of the small fraction of the public which enjoys cruising.

[navybankerteacher]

6 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Just imagine the public reaction if they reported on the flu the way they do for the Wuhan virus.  Every day reports of thousands of new cases.  Every day reports of hundreds of deaths.

They do - haven’t you noticed all the PSA’s concerning flu vaccine.

[navybankerteacher]

30 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

I saw something that, if true, startled me.  We had more deaths in ww1 due to illness than due to combat - primarily due to the Spanish flu.

And during the Civil War there were approximately twice as many deaths from non-combat disease than from battle injuries.

[iancal]

It does not matter to us what Governments say on their travel advisories.  
 

We could care less what politicians have to say about the C virus...both national and regional leaders.  We know where they are when speaking to truth or to facts.  Or common sense for that matter.

 

We only pay attention to what our public health professionals say and what the specialists in communicable diseases have to say in the subject.   Their advice and their recommendations. The rest is flannel.  And we want to hear it from them, not through the words of some news channel that specializes in hyping the news and turning it from factual information to speculation, politics, and entertainment.

 

Would we consider boarding a cruise over the next three months?  Absolutely not.

Edited March 9, 2020 by iancal

[sharic96]

1 minute ago, navybankerteacher said:

And during the Civil War there were approximately twice as many deaths from non-combat disease than from battle injuries.

These have nothing to do with today. I think we've had a few developments in medicine since WW1 and The Civil War. I'm going on a 4 day in mid May. RCCL has listed on its website that you can cancel up to 48 hours prior to your cruise and get full credit towards a new cruise you book up until 12/2021. So if you are that concerned you can just wait out the virus and go next year instead and you won't lose your vacation investment.