Urgent - Ruby Princess 3 people infected - Urgent Tracking of Passengers

[pully8]

Unfortunately self isolating guidelines are not being followed by some and now more measures are being put in place to monitor people.

There are not the resources to fully implement and achieve 100 % compliance.

Really very sad for those exposed to this virus and even worse for those severely ill or worse.

Some are not aware they are infected and presents other issues.

We might see mass testing eventually which will help to find and isolate cases.

The whole border control issue at all posts will need to be reviewed.

Yes its not any 1 particular cruise ship or cruise line.

Identifying and contract tracing needs to be faster too whatever the source.  

 

[nnps]

2 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

They were not healthy going on, they may have been temperature tested but not properly tested.

We really don't know whether they were healthy, just as we don't know that any went on board already infected. There are so many variables and opportunities for infection that deciding on where the infection came from is impossible IMO. What is much easier to determine is that the disembarkation was an absolute disaster and highlighted the failures of many in our leadership (right up to the top). So much for our strong borders.

[BRANDEE]

3 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

They were not healthy going on, they may have been temperature tested but not properly tested.

We were not temperature tested going on which I thought was going to happen.  That was for my protection.  And even more surprising..we were not temperature test getting off..for the protection of Australians.  I was not temperature tested at US or SYD airports coming or going. Never any indication while on board that anyone was ill.  Actually comments were made at how healthy we were and sad to go back to the scary world.  Wow..how foolish were all were.  On the way over SYD to SFO I sat next to a young dancer from the Ovation..she was telling me how healthy they were ,too.  Wrong again

[Pushka]

10 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

They were not healthy going on, they may have been temperature tested but not properly tested.

My concern as I stated long ago was not how they got the virus - none of us here can determine that - (although Princess process given all the issues seems in question) but what happened during disembarkation. 

[BRANDEE]

3 minutes ago, pully8 said:

Unfortunately self isolating guidelines are not being followed by some and now more measures are being put in place to monitor people.

There are not the resources to fully implement and achieve 100 % compliance.

Really very sad for those exposed to this virus and even worse for those severely ill or worse.

Some are not aware they are infected and presents other issues.

We might see mass testing eventually which will help to find and isolate cases.

The whole border control issue at all posts will need to be reviewed.

Yes its not any 1 particular cruise ship or cruise line.

Identifying and contract tracing needs to be faster too whatever the source.  

 

 

We are in lock down and distancing in NY, but just this afternoon five young women in their 20's strolled past my house..with a baby in a stroller.  I was talking  (shouting) to my neighbor across the street.  When they passed I said said to them ..you have to be kidding..I got the finger!

[Aus Traveller]

17 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Yes I understand that too. So many red flags were evident here though with sick passengers and tests already in process. Thousands of people involved. Blind Freddy would have acted with caution. 

I agree totally. I find it incomprehensible that the passengers were allowed to disembark from the Ruby last week, when apparently there was checking when the previous cruise returned on the 8th March.

[Aus Traveller]

18 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

Yep, while they have us all working (not even from home) and not self isolating, people will still travel to their weekend places. This is the problem with mixed messages.

My wife is isolating herself at home but I still have to go to work, even though I can work from home, I am not allowed as I am seen as critical (along with every other public servant).

They will not even shut hairdressers despite the special distancing rules.

The Gov is prepared for people to die as long as it doesn't cost too much.:(

 

In Queensland, even a month ago there was discussion on Public Servants working from home. Our son is on four or five weeks holiday at the moment while he moved into their new home, but he mentioned that when his leave is over in ten days' time, he will be working from home.

[Aus Traveller]

14 minutes ago, BRANDEE said:

We were not temperature tested going on which I thought was going to happen.  That was for my protection.  And even more surprising..we were not temperature test getting off..for the protection of Australians.  I was not temperature tested at US or SYD airports coming or going. Never any indication while on board that anyone was ill.  Actually comments were made at how healthy we were and sad to go back to the scary world.  Wow..how foolish were all were.  On the way over SYD to SFO I sat next to a young dancer from the Ovation..she was telling me how healthy they were ,too.  Wrong again

Oops. On the plane, you sat next to a dancer from the Ovation. There were infections on that ship also, so it is possible the dancer had the infection, but being young and fit, wasn't exhibiting symptoms. Sitting in a plane for around 16 hours is prolonged close contact, but we will never know for sure where you got the virus.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[cme2c]

5 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

I agree totally. I find it incomprehensible that the passengers were allowed to disembark from the Ruby last week, when apparently there was checking when the previous cruise returned on the 8th March.

And yet Voyager Of The Seas went out again. A friend (who is fine) is in self isolation until April 1.

 

[BRANDEE]

30 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Oops. On the plane, you sat next to a dancer from the Ovation. There were infections on that ship also, so it is possible the dancer had the infection, but being young and fit, wasn't exhibiting symptoms. Sitting in a plane for around 16 hours is prolonged close contact, but we will never know for sure where you got the virus.

I'm still okay.  It is my husband that has temperature.  Was also on the Hawkes tour in Napier.  So how far can I press my luck?  Think the stress is starting to show..need an after dinner/pre going to bed drink...

[Ondine]

Oh dear just got an email from DHHS.Vic to say that someone on board the Carnival Spirit has tested positive and I should self isolate until the 28th which is tomorrow.  A bit late in notifying. 

 

Googled it and a paper in Cairns was reporting a possible infection 2 days ago and Tasmania reported a confirmed case from the C Spirit yesterday.

 

We were in Napier just prior to the Ruby so maybe the Spirit is responsible for the infection there, who knows.  However they did say that there were several cruise ships due over a couple of days.

 

Something strange was happening in Picton where we were 2 hours late leaving.  I heard someone on shore say we were waiting for an email!!!  Very strange but as I have said previously the cleaning became manic as we proceeded.

 

We did have a lot of Americans on board which is unusual for a cruise to and from Melbourne.  Also many others from overseas.  Some had been given a free cruise because they were members of the Casino VIP club.  Melbourne cruises are usually 95% Victorians.

 

I don't seem to have any symptoms so fingers crossed. 

I don't mean to finger point at the Americans just stating facts.

Edited March 27, 2020 by Ondine
Added additional line

[MMDown Under]

1 hour ago, Aus Traveller said:

It is highly likely that the Premier wasn't involved in the decision to let the Ruby Princess passengers disembark. That decision was taken by the NSW Health Department, and probably by a Public Servant, not the Minister.

Probably by a PublicServant ?  I think not!  Recommendation by a Public Servant to the Minister maybe

[Aus Traveller]

8 minutes ago, MMDown Under said:

Probably by a PublicServant ?  I think not!  Recommendation by a Public Servant to the Minister maybe

The Minister might have been involved, but I am inclined to think that the authorisation for the Ruby Princess passengers to disembark would have been seen as a routine matter that did not require Ministerial consent.

[possum52]

1 hour ago, Pushka said:

With respect what you experienced is irrelevant. Passengers went on the ship healthy. They have come off testing positive. Well over 150. What am I missing here? 
 

And I think your hearts thingy is very inappropriate in these circumstances.  

How do you know everyone went on the Ruby healthy? Any number of passengers may have been already infected and not aware of it, particularly if flying in from OS and if no symptoms.

 

Leigh

[MMDown Under]

10 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

The Minister might have been involved, but I am inclined to think that the authorisation for the Ruby Princess passengers to disembark would have been seen as a routine matter that did not require Ministerial consent.

 I hope not.  Guess it depends whether authorisation for passengers to disembark must be made by Minister or Departmental Head, etc. Please don't tell me there is no regulation.  Might be a good idea to have all parties together in one department!  BTW I dislike "Border Force" which sounds unAustralian, Health I understand. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by MMDown Under

[ivanp91]

4 hours ago, Pushka said:

There is freedom to exit Australia just not enter it now. We can't stop people leaving Australia at all.

 

Only for foreign nationals. Australian citizens can only leave under extraordinary/compassionate circumstances, and DFAT is turning people away at the airport if they don't fall under the limited scope of these new rules. I know the discussion was related to the US tourists that tested positive, but people may misinterpret your comment as meaning everyone can leave of their own free will.

[Aus Traveller]

28 minutes ago, MMDown Under said:

 I hope not.  Guess it depends whether authorisation for passengers to disembark must be made by Minister or Departmental Head, etc. Please don't tell me there is no regulation.  Might be a good idea to have all parties together in one department!  BTW I dislike "Border Force" which sounds unAustralian, Health I understand. 

I believe the authority to disembark the Ruby would have been made by someone not as senior as the Department Head. It wasn't a policy matter and would have been seen as routine.

 

BTW I agree with you about the term "Border Force". This used to be "Immigration". Maybe they think "Border Force" sounds more macho. 🙂

Edited March 27, 2020 by Aus Traveller

[Pushka]

Just now, Aus Traveller said:

I believe the authority to disembark the Ruby would have been made by someone not as senior as the Department Head. It wasn't a policy matter and would have been seen as routine.

I just heard the Princess Rep on Sky News going through In detail the Process that Princess had gone through prior to disembarkation. Clearly NSW Authorities totally dropped the ball on this one. Over 200 positives just in Australia now, and heaven knows how many in the USA 

[Pushka]

7 minutes ago, ivanp91 said:

 

Only for foreign nationals. Australian citizens can only leave under extraordinary/compassionate circumstances, and DFAT is turning people away at the airport if they don't fall under the limited scope of these new rules. I know the discussion was related to the US tourists that tested positive, but people may misinterpret your comment as meaning everyone can leave of their own free will.

Yes, indeed. I was meaning foreign nationals. 

[The_Big_M]

7 hours ago, Porky55 said:

Still believe Ruby has been scapegoated a little in this disaster.  Here are the figures straight from NSW Health and the comments:

 

There have been 107 cases diagnosed in NSW from the Ruby Princess and 26 cases interstate. It should be noted, no cases of COVID-19 had been identified by doctors on board before docking. Five people who had displayed influenza-like illness were tested in Wellington, New Zealand on 14 March, and all were negative for COVID-19.

 

I don’t know how they would test for the virus on board?? Were they then isolated ?? Too many questions and of course we are purely speculating - we DO NOT know the answers.

 

The fact Ruby has had so many cases doesn't mean it is the fault of Ruby. But it is a significant issue - over 10% of cases in NSW, and 25% in South Australia are from that ship and sailing alone. That isn't something that should be ignored or disregarded.

[megsie]

The Hunter health area, reported that 69 of 124 positive case were related to cruising. 

5 cases are still under investigation and the rest are from overseas travel including those returning home.

Edited March 27, 2020 by megsie

[MicCanberra]

2 hours ago, nnps said:

We really don't know whether they were healthy, just as we don't know that any went on board already infected. There are so many variables and opportunities for infection that deciding on where the infection came from is impossible IMO. What is much easier to determine is that the disembarkation was an absolute disaster and highlighted the failures of many in our leadership (right up to the top). So much for our strong borders.

agreed, it was a c#$k up.

[The_Big_M]

2 hours ago, nnps said:

The Minister is responsible for the decisions made by his/her Department. Similarly, the Premier is responsible for the decisions made by her Minister. That's our system.

 

Agreed. And given that the Health minister was defending the actions taken, and the Premier was then subsequently deflecting the blame to other (Federal) agencies, it's evident that it's not the case that a public servant didn't do what they were meant to, but that the actions taken were those endorsed by the Minister and Premier.

[MicCanberra]

2 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

In Queensland, even a month ago there was discussion on Public Servants working from home. Our son is on four or five weeks holiday at the moment while he moved into their new home, but he mentioned that when his leave is over in ten days' time, he will be working from home.

We (all the people in my Branch)were all given the capability to do so but it has not been implemented as yet until the hierarchy provides permission. They say one thing to the media but do another in directive.

[The_Big_M]

2 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

I agree that the responsibility lies at the top, but often I feel it is unfair when the Minister or the Premier is blamed for decisions that they would have had no part in. Many decades ago I worked in a Ministerial office and saw this at first hand.

 

The debate is because they haven't accepted responsibility, and tried to brush it off/deflect. That's the path to making things worse.

 

If nobody is ever responsible, as they aren't accepting it, then nothing will improve as each department only looks to blames someone else, instead of actually addressing failures.