Possibility of Oceania Refusing Cash Refunds

[Marmaduke]

I am in the UK and have an Oceania Cruise booked for the end of June 2020.  My travel agent  has packaged this with flights of my choosing and transfers and provided me with an ATOL Certificate.  This package in total cost around £7000.  This cruise has yet to be officially cancelled by Oceania but it is highly likely that it will be (currently showing as waitlisted in all categories).  I have just recieved a call from the TA advising me that higher cancellation charges are due to kick in tomorrow and if I want to cancel now I can get a refund of £5200 plus a FFC of £1300 but I will lose £1800 for the flight and transfer costs as the flights have yet to be cancelled. 

 

Alternatively if I  wait for Oceania cancel the cruise, they (Oceania) will give me a future cruise credit of 125% but may not give the option of 100% cash refund.  In this instant I will be fully refunded the cost of my flights and transfers.  

 

Has anyone else in the UK  heard of this ?  All I want is a full refund to my credit card in event of Oceania cancelling the cruise.

 

[jo-b]

Under current UK package travel laws a cruise is a package holiday and if it is cancelled or changed radically you are entitled to a full refund. Yours is a true package under ATOL protection. As far as I know the same entitlement applies. 
 

ABTA are asking the government to amend the package holiday directive  legislation o that you can get a future refund certificate valid for two years that if not used at then end of two years, or if the company goes bust ABTA will Refund in cash at that time. 
 

There is a lot of info online about this at the moment. 

[LHT28]

Just Curious

Did your agent package this  as FIT or through Oceania ?

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

OP: you may want to peruse the comprehensive thread on Oceania refunds where I just recently posted this from the US ticket contract for Oceania.

If We cancel the Cruise or CruiseTour before it has started, We will refund the full Cruise Fare or CruiseTour Fare that We have actually received (less any air or accommodation charges incurred).

If you Google "Oceania ticket contract," you'll probably find the U.K. version which I'm betting will say exactly the same thing.

[Paulchili]

1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

If We cancel the Cruise or CruiseTour before it has started, We will refund the full Cruise Fare or CruiseTour Fare that We have actually received (less any air or accommodation charges incurred).

Provided they still have cash to hand out - T&C or not 🙂

That was written under "normal" circumstances and this is anything but normal.

Time will tell as cancellations add up.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Paulchili

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

If you Google "Oceania ticket contract," you'll probably find the U.K. version which I'm betting will say exactly the same thing.

It may also depend on how the TA did the package

In the UK  they have different rights/rules than North America

[Mura]

The NY Times had an article to day (8 April) regarding the financial problems facing the cruiselines.

 

Cruise Industry, a Symbol of the Pandemic, Scrambles to Survive
Carnival and the other big companies have no revenue and face questions over whether customers will return once the threat of the coronavirus passes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/business/coronavirus-cruise-industry-carnival.html?campaign_id=2&emc=edit_th_200408&instance_id=17425&nl=todaysheadlines&regi_id=762857&segment_id=24264&user_id=fd1ab06e827a5020d86ec008ad5cbdcd

 

Non-subscribers may not be able to access the article.  If you want to see it, email (as shown below) and I can send it to you.

 

Mura

 

[clo]

8 hours ago, Paulchili said:

Provided they still have cash to hand out

I was reading an article today on The Points Guy about how few months worth of $$$ the airlines have. Probably not comparable but with their dearth also of pax....

[Paulchili]

2 hours ago, clo said:

I was reading an article today on The Points Guy about how few months worth of $$$ the airlines have. Probably not comparable but with their dearth also of pax....

Hence my concern above in post #5 - no refunds if there is no cash left.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Paulchili

[BenMurphy]

23 hours ago, Marmaduke said:

I am in the UK and have an Oceania Cruise booked for the end of June 2020.  My travel agent  has packaged this with flights of my choosing and transfers and provided me with an ATOL Certificate.  This package in total cost around £7000.  This cruise has yet to be officially cancelled by Oceania but it is highly likely that it will be (currently showing as waitlisted in all categories).  I have just recieved a call from the TA advising me that higher cancellation charges are due to kick in tomorrow and if I want to cancel now I can get a refund of £5200 plus a FFC of £1300 but I will lose £1800 for the flight and transfer costs as the flights have yet to be cancelled. 

 

Alternatively if I  wait for Oceania cancel the cruise, they (Oceania) will give me a future cruise credit of 125% but may not give the option of 100% cash refund.  In this instant I will be fully refunded the cost of my flights and transfers.  

 

Has anyone else in the UK  heard of this ?  All I want is a full refund to my credit card in event of Oceania cancelling the cruise.

 

Hi

just out of curiosity where is you cruise to? 

We are in the U.K too and O cancelled our June cruise from Tokyo to San Francisco. our agent booked flights separately .

We had our refund, deposit first and then the balance within 10 days of their cancellation.

Did you take O's flights or has your agent arranged them for you?

We have now booked an October cruise with O and our agent has transferred the the flights for us with no loss of funds.

I do do hope that this works out to your satisfaction. It's such a worrying time all round.

Incidentally have you looked at your cruise on cruise retail site such as six star cruises or Igloo to see if you can find any information on there? You can do a 'dummy' booking

best wishes

Josie

 

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

15 minutes ago, BenMurphy said:

Hi

just out of curiosity where is you cruise to? 

We are in the U.K too and O cancelled our June cruise from Tokyo to San Francisco. our agent booked flights separately .

We had our refund, deposit first and then the balance within 10 days of their cancellation.

Did you take O's flights or has your agent arranged them for you?

We have now booked an October cruise with O and our agent has transferred the the flights for us with no loss of funds.

I do do hope that this works out to your satisfaction. It's such a worrying time all round.

Incidentally have you looked at your cruise on cruise retail site such as six star cruises or Igloo to see if you can find any information on there? You can do a 'dummy' booking

best wishes

Josie

 

 

FWIW, the U.S. version of Oceania's Ticket Contract provides full refund if O cancels. IMO, it would be very helpful if someone in the U.K. (Canada, NZ et al.) posted a link to their version of the O document.

[Pies4u]

It is interesting that people on various threads keep quoting ATOL protection. This only applies in insolvency, it is not a general insurance policy. It is no use at all under the current circumstances.

 

I have registered a dispute with Oceania because their quoted refund for the cruise we should be on now is way below our basic cruise fare and some £5,000 below the full cost paid directly to them. The 125% FCC is actually c £1,000 less than we paid overall. 

 

Despite accepting that the figures "look wrong" & promising to look into it and get back to me within 2 days, I've heard nothing for 10 days. It appears that they are not even answering the phone in the UK - twice in the last 2 days I have been on hold for over an hour without success. 

 

I think the posts referring to "no refund if no cash" are highly pertinent. It is feasible that a number of cruise lines will not survive this crisis, hope Oceania is not one of them! 

[Pet]

We have written to both our TA and Oceania telling them we wish to cancel our August cruise on Marina and have so far received just an acknowledgement. Because we have 4 cruises in the pipeline we didn't want to pay the balance for this cruise which is due next week and build up even more FCC which for health/age/availability reasons we might not be able to use. Better, we think, to take a hit with the deposit only on this one. According to the TAs TofC we will be charged £200pp to cancel which I can live with rather than laying out £K7+ in the hope it will go ahead. The other Marina cruise is a TA in November but I assume that if she doesn't come over to Europe for the Summer then obviously that cruise will also be cancelled. One thing I had noticed is that both these cruises are now shown as O Life Choice whereas they were O Life Ultimate. There is little change in the actual fare quoted.  

[LHT28]

I think under the current situation   those  rules for UK cruisers where they are supposed to be refunded in 2wks from cancellation  need to be adjusted

Pretty sure  those doing the refunds/FCC's are overwhelmed   plus working from home may have to take extra steps to confirm those on the cancelled cruises etc..

These are extraordinary times  & things may take longer 

 

Yes I know  it is not your problem that people cannot work  24/7 to get your money back & the virus was not caused by you  but just  relax a bit & wait  for the refund  to be processed

JMO

[LHT28]

42 minutes ago, Pet said:

The other Marina cruise is a TA in November but I assume that if she doesn't come over to Europe for the Summer then obviously that cruise will also be cancelled. One thing I had noticed is that both these cruises are now shown as O Life Choice whereas they were O Life Ultimate. There is little change in the actual fare quoted.  

 The O Life deal is subject to change    but if you booked  with the Ultimate  & the cruise goes ahead   you should get the perk that was offered  when you booked

[YoHoHo]

20 hours ago, clo said:

I was reading an article today on The Points Guy about how few months worth of $$$ the airlines have. Probably not comparable but with their dearth also of pax....

18 hours ago, Paulchili said:

Hence my concern above in post #5 - no refunds if there is no cash left.

 

 

Have been following some financial news/posts a bit. Take these with a grain of salt. Investment is speculative. No financial advice is given or to be taken. Different analysts have different opinions. How much money you have on the table might affect your view.
-------
"UBS sizes up the balance sheets of the cruise line operators after factoring in the latest cash-preservation moves"
Recently one UBS analyst:"...RCL, which we believe has ~10 months of liquidity in a zero-rev scenario, and NCLH which we believe has ~7-8 months of liquidity in such a scenario."

 

Another post
"Nomura Instinet takes the long view on the cruise line sector,"
"Perhaps most importantly, Curtis says bankruptcy risk is low for the cruise line operators based off analysis of cash flows and debt financing."

 

And another I read much earlier said NCLH had tapped into 1.5 (?) billion financing and that poster estimated a lower cash burn rate.

 

As expected these posts have numerous comments from many with wildly differing opinions; including on cruising itself.

 

I have no idea how close to reality any of these posts are but I anticipate O will be good for my refund in "up to 90 days".

 

I have two cancelled cruises. One we are still deciding but leaning toward taking the FCC and the other we have requested a refund. Taking the FCC is not completely based on desirability of another cruise on that line but to possibly preserve the insurance coverage.  For our O cruise a not insignificant reason for wanting the refund vs the 125% FCC was having to use it before EOY 2021  - we don't know when we will feel safe to travel ourselves plus still dreaming of a particular trip in Fall 2021 -not one O does. I am counting on receiving that refund. Refunds for various hotels, tours and airline have started coming into different credit cards just this week - taken about 3 weeks to get going.

 

Of course none of the above is fact, just speculation. What you get and when cannot be predicated by what I get or do.

 

 

[swigso]

Hello

we too are in the UK, the post above is correct, ATOL protection is only available when a company goes bust. However, we had a cruise booked sailing next Tuesday which needed to be paid in full in December, way before this happened.

But, we always use a credit card to pay for any travel, this means that if anything is cancelled and the company will not refund our money then under UK credit card terms we can chargeback the cost. This will be credited to the card and the vendor will be charged directly by their service provider.

To date we have been told that our cruise, flights to Lax with BA and then to Tahiti with Air France will be refunded back to the card. 

My advice whenever possibly always pay by credit card.

 

[Marmaduke]

On 4/8/2020 at 3:51 PM, jo-b said:

Under current UK package travel laws a cruise is a package holiday and if it is cancelled or changed radically you are entitled to a full refund. Yours is a true package under ATOL protection. As far as I know the same entitlement applies. 
 

ABTA are asking the government to amend the package holiday directive  legislation o that you can get a future refund certificate valid for two years that if not used at then end of two years, or if the company goes bust ABTA will Refund in cash at that time. 
 

There is a lot of info online about this at the moment. 

 

After reading the above reply  I did some research  and as I understand it would appear that ABTA is lobbying  for legislation whereby voucher will be issued which will be valid for 2 years and if not used within that time frame a full refund will be made by ABTA, backed by the UK government.  This is not yet in force but maybe by the time Oceania officially cancels the cruise.

 

I have decided to not to cancel the cruise but to just wait and hope for a full refund to the credit card.  Worse case it seems that I will get a full refund in 2 years time.   I certainly intend to travel with Oceania again but in these uncertain times who know when or where.

 

I did have a cruise in April with Azamara, booked with different TA who also packaged it for me with flights and hotels for which I  received an ATOL certificate.  Azamara cancelled that cruise last month and that TA has assured me that I will get a full refund for all monies paid although it may take several weeks.

 

[pingpong1]

On 4/8/2020 at 7:51 AM, jo-b said:

ABTA are asking the government to amend the package holiday directive  legislation so that you can get a future refund certificate valid for two years that if not used at the end of two years, or if the company goes bust, ABTA will Refund in cash at that time.  

Wow, and that's supposed to be consumer "protection"?  Having to wait upwards of 2 years before a customer gets their money back for a product they never received?  If you "owed" the government or a large corporation a sum of money, and told them that they'd "get their money in about 2 years", I wonder if that would be okay?!  Regards

[jo-b]

Just now, pingpong1 said:

Wow, and that's supposed to be consumer "protection"?  Having to wait upwards of 2 years before a customer gets their money back for a product they never received?  If you "owed" the government or a large corporation a sum of money, and told them that they'd "get their money in about 2 years", I wonder if that would be okay?!  Regards

No this is supposed to be an alternative to getting a full refund as an aid to stop travel businesses going out of business. If you think you may want to travel with that firm again you have two years to do so, if you don't tor if anything happens to them you have the reassurance of getting your money back. 

 

Most people are aware that if there are no holidays/cruises taken this year and everyone demands full refunds then some companies will not survive. I suppose in a way this is like lockdowns smoothing the curve of the coronavirus, by postponing getting your money back or taking that holiday we all survive to cruise another day.

 

[jo-b]

23 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

FWIW, the U.S. version of Oceania's Ticket Contract provides full refund if O cancels. IMO, it would be very helpful if someone in the U.K. (Canada, NZ et al.) posted a link to their version of the O document.

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/legal/terms-conditions/

[Paulchili]

1 hour ago, pingpong1 said:

Wow, and that's supposed to be consumer "protection"?  Having to wait upwards of 2 years before a customer gets their money back for a product they never received?  

Two years is still better than not getting a refund at all but only FCC. If a cruise line offers you a FCC you have no claim against any insurance company or credit card.

You are stuck with FCC whether you can use it or not (and it has a term limit attached to it - use it or lose it).

Edited April 10, 2020 by Paulchili

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, jo-b said:

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/legal/terms-conditions/

If you're clicking on that link from the US you get directed to the US website. Doesn't Oceania have a separate UK website like most other cruise lines?  Typically there will be separate websites for the US/Canada, the UK, EU, Australia/New Zealand, etc.

 

[jo-b]

If I click on it I get UK terms and conditions. Website is Oceania.com not a co.uk site. 
 

UK Terms & Conditions

The following Booking Conditions together with the information contained in the Frequently Asked Questions section of our website www.oceaniacruises.com/faq form the basis of your contract and constitute your conditions of carriage with Oceania Cruises S. de R.L. trading as Oceania Cruises^®. Please read our Booking Conditions and Frequently Asked Questions Section carefully as they set out our respective rights and obligations. All information is believed correct at time of publication but is subject to change. Information concerning the citizens and residents of sanctioned countries (see below and clause 29) was updated and is believed correct as at 1 July 2018

Travelling with us is one of the world’s best holiday buys. Your cruise holiday fare includes stateroom accommodation, all meals and entertainment on board ship (including in-suite dining, 24 hour room service and no charge for speciality restaurants), return economy flights (subject to applicable conditions - see clause 5), unlimited soft drinks and bottled water, butler service (PH3 - OS categories), detailed port briefings, port charges, departure taxes, baggage handling and security charges and unlimited WiFi. Not included, however, are alcoholic beverages, activities and services for which an additional charge is made such as shore excursions and Overland Programmes or meals ashore (unless otherwise stated in the itinerary description), any fuel supplement, personal services, other items available on board, airport transfers and any other service not expressly included in your cruise fare. For more information on the services included in your cruise fare and the applicable terms, please see clause 5.

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We offer FREE economy class flights which are: (1) available for full fare cruise guests (2) applicable to first and second guests per booking only (3) capacity controlled and subject to availability (4) limited to specific regional airports and airlines. Choice of airline carrier and routing is at the discretion of Oceania Cruises^®. Supplements apply for alternative airlines. Please enquire at the time of booking. Please note your booked flight may not be the most direct route and may involve a stop en- route to your destination which may result you disembarking from the aircraft. Occasionally, due to scheduling conflicts, an en-route overnight stay may be necessary. Should this be the case, we will advise you or your travel agent about this at the time of confirming your flight itinerary, or as soon as we are made aware of any changes by the airline. Unless otherwise specified in the cruise programme description there may be costs associated with the events described and these will be the responsibility of the Guest. En-route overnights as described are subject to change /cancellation due to changes in the air scheduling. Oceania Cruises offers Guests the option to purchase hotel stays in your port of embarkation or disembarkation. The price includes room, tax, service charges, porterage and transfers as applicable. An Air Allowance (air credit) will not be applicable if Oceania Cruises included air arrangements are cancelled by the Guest within 60 days of sailing. All fares are per person in the currency shown based on double occupancy (unless otherwise noted), for new bookings only and may be withdrawn at any time. All voyages feature FREE unlimited WiFi, Oceania Suite and higher can be logged into two devices at the same time under a single login

6. Changes by You
Should you wish to make any changes to your confirmed holiday, you must notify us as soon as possible either in writing or by e-mailing AdminUK@oceaniacruises.com. Whilst we will endeavour to assist, we cannot guarantee we will be able to meet any such requests. Where we can, an amendment fee of £100 per person per change will be payable together with any applicable rate change and any costs incurred by ourselves and any costs or charges incurred or imposed by any of our suppliers. You should be aware that these costs could increase the closer to the departure date any change is made and you should contact us as soon as possible. Where we are unable to assist you and you do not wish to proceed with the original booking we will treat this as a cancellation by you. A cancellation fee may be payable (see clause 7 of these Booking Conditions). Note: Certain travel arrangements and elements of your booking, including in particular, airline reservations, guest name (except as set out below), cruise/holiday dates, category of suite or value of your booking may not be capable of being changed after a reservation has been made and any alteration could incur a cancellation charge of up to 100% of that part of the arrangements. If you make an amendment that results in a reduction in the booking value, the difference in price will be subject to a charge calculated in accordance with the percentages and timescales detailed in clause 7. Guests opting to change their flight from that offered will be required to pay an Air Customisation Fee of £99 per person fee plus any applicable fare increases and fees/penalties charged by the airline(s). The Air Customisation Fee is charged per change and is non-refundable once confirmed on the booking. Please ensure your names are as shown on your passports. If any individual Guest wishes to transfer their individual booking to another person (introduced by you), you may do so provided the person to whom you wish to transfer your individual booking satisfies any conditions which form part of your contract with us. Please note, however, this right to transfer to a person of your choice only automatically applies where one Guest sharing a stateroom wishes to transfer their individual place on the booking. Where all Guests sharing a stateroom do not want to travel (for whatever reason) and wish to transfer their booking to other people (introduced by you), the stateroom must first be offered to the individuals on any waitlist for the cruise. Only if there is no waitlist for the cruise or the individuals on the waitlist do not want to take the stateroom in question can all Guests occupying the stateroom transfer their booking on the cruise to other individuals introduced by you in accordance with this clause. Requests for transfers must be made in writing at least 7 days before departure and must be accompanied by the name and other required details of the person(s) to whom the booking will be transferred. The costs and charges incurred by us and/or incurred or imposed by any of our suppliers as a result together with an amendment fee of £100 per person transferring their place must be paid before the transfer can be made. For flight inclusive bookings, you must also pay the charges levied by the airline(s) concerned. Guests should note that airlines may not allow name changes on scheduled flights and that the flight booking may need to be cancelled (with payment of the applicable cancellation charges which may be 100% of the flight cost) and rebooked if a name needs to be changed. The rebooking will always be subject to flight availability and to the payment of the full cost of the new ticket.

7. Cancellation by You 
You may cancel your confirmed booking at any time before departure. Should you need to do so, the first named Guest on the booking (who must be at least 18) must immediately telephone us on +44 (0) 345 505 1920 during normal working hours. If an individual Guest wishes to cancel their place on the booking (but not the entire booking), that person must telephone us on +44 (0) 345 505 1920 during normal working hours. Alternatively, you may notify the travel agent through whom you made your booking of your cancellation. The cancellation must also be confirmed in writing or by e-mail to your travel agent or by emailing AdminUK@oceaniacruises.com.. Cancellation charges (as set out below) will apply. In calculating these charges, we have taken account of the period before your sail date the cancellation is notified to us or is otherwise deemed to take effect, expected costs savings arising as a result of your cancellation and the likely generation of income from other bookings made with us which utilise the cancelled services. 
*Where the cancellation charge is shown as a percentage, this is calculated on the basis of the total cost payable by the person(s) cancelling excluding the cost of any services for which a separate charge is applicable (to which the cancellation charges shown separately below apply), taxes, fees and amendment charges. Amendment charges are not refundable in the event of the person(s) to whom they apply cancelling. Providing we are notified of the cancellation prior to departure, government and port taxes including, for flight inclusive cruises, the air passenger duty and the ATOL protection contribution, will be refunded where paid. If you book and cancel back to back cruises, cancellation charges as shown below will be payable in respect of each cruise.

 

7a. Cruise Cancellation Fee Schedules

 

	Stateroom Categories	Stateroom Categories
Cruises 14 Nights or Less	PH - G	OS/VS/OC
120 – 91 Days Prior	£200 pp Admin Fee*	10% of Fare*
90 – 76 Days Prior	25% of Fare	25% of Fare
75 - 61 Days Prior	50% of Fare	50% of Fare
60 - 31 Days Prior	75% of Fare	75% of Fare
30 - 0 Days Prior	100% of Fare	100% of Fare

 

	Stateroom Categories	Stateroom Categories
Cruises 15 Nights or More	PH - G	OS/VS/OC
180 - 151 Days Prior	£200 pp Admin Fee*	10% of Fare*
150 - 121 Days Prior	25% of Fare	25% of Fare
120 - 91 Days Prior	50% of Fare	50% of Fare
90 - 61 Days Prior	75% of Fare	75% of Fare
60 - 0 Days Prior	100% of Fare	100% of Fare

 

	Stateroom Categories	Stateroom Categories
Around the World Cruises	PH - G	OS/VS/OC
Deposit - 181 Days Prior	£400 pp Admin Fee*	10% of Fare*
90 - 76 Days Prior	25% of Fare	25% of Fare
75 - 61 Days Prior	50% of Fare	50% of Fare
61 - 31 Days Prior	75% of Fare	75% of Fare
30 - 0 Days Prior	100% of Fare	100% of Fare

 

*NOTE:£200 & £400 pp Admin Fees (PH – G categories) and 10% of Fare (OS/VS/OC suites) is non-refundable and non-transferable

A 100% cancellation fee will be applicable as indicated above for non-appearance at the departure port of the cruise, failure to embark the ship by the latest scheduled time for doing so on departure or in the absence of a written notice of cancellation. Cancellation charges are strictly enforced.

[YoHoHo]

 

Canada and New Zealand are not part of the UK. It is comprised of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Perhaps confusing it with the Commonwealth.

As far as I know Canada and USA pax have same Oceania T&Cs