GeorgesGal Posted July 5, 2020 #151 Share Posted July 5, 2020 On 6/17/2020 at 10:04 AM, Fam_Cruise said: So much for Insignia re-launching on September 26:We have extended the suspension of voyages on Regatta, Nautica, Sirena, Marina and Riviera to include those embarking between August 1 and September 30, 2020. Additionally on the Insignia, we’ve extended the suspension to include voyages embarking between October 1 and October 26, 2020. From the table attached to this post (#95) does anyone know what the code 'FP' stands for next to Marina and Riviera? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fam_Cruise Posted July 5, 2020 #152 Share Posted July 5, 2020 19 minutes ago, GeorgesGal said: From the table attached to this post (#95) does anyone know what the code 'FP' stands for next to Marina and Riviera? I would guess it means fixed prop vs azipod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted July 6, 2020 #153 Share Posted July 6, 2020 On 6/30/2020 at 4:02 PM, Paulchili said: I'll go 1 step further - make sure (prove it) that it's safe to travel. No way that can be done at this time. First step is getting a vaccine that works on most of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare pinotlover Posted July 6, 2020 #154 Share Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, RJB said: No way that can be done at this time. First step is getting a vaccine that works on most of us. Actually a vaccine wouldn’t be required. Develop a reliable test , with fast results, to show if one is currently infected or not. The cruise lines could make people show up for Day 0, where they are tested and quarantined in a hotel. Have results by the next day, Day 1. If currently positive, you don’t get on the ship. We are not far away from countries requiring medical forms, with shot records, to travel into their countries. I’ve read where the EU is already discussing it. It will be required at flight check in and again at immigrations. With the new technologies, I believe the days of sick, and particularly fevered regardless of cause, passengers getting on a international flight are numbered. It also sounds as if some of those countries are going to require visitors to prepay for National health insurance before they are allowed in. No more footing the bill for sick tourists. Edited July 6, 2020 by pinotlover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea42 Posted July 6, 2020 #155 Share Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, pinotlover said: particularly fevered regardless of cause, passengers getting on a international flight are numbered. This is probably not a very reliable way to determine who may be ill. People's temperatures vary. I always have a low temp right around 96. If I have a 99 temperature, for me that would indicate illness, for someone else that may be a normal temperature. Edited July 6, 2020 by Sea42 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare pinotlover Posted July 6, 2020 #156 Share Posted July 6, 2020 6 minutes ago, Sea42 said: This is probably not a very reliable way to determine who may be ill. People's temperatures vary. I always have a low temp right around 96. If I have a 99 temperature, for me that would indicate illness, for someone else that may be a normal temperature. Absolutely nothing, a big fat zero 0, will ever be perfect! Demanding perfect, and allowing good to great to be the enemy of perfect, is not a good solution to anything. If they can identify and isolate 95% of the problem, that is a huge step forward while they work on the other 5%. Doing nothing until perfect is bad policy. I believe they set the current scanners at 100.2 F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea42 Posted July 6, 2020 #157 Share Posted July 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, pinotlover said: Absolutely nothing, a big fat zero 0, will ever be perfect! Demanding perfect, and allowing good to great to be the enemy of perfect, is not a good solution to anything. If they can identify and isolate 95% of the problem, that is a huge step forward while they work on the other 5%. Doing nothing until perfect is bad policy. I believe they set the current scanners at 100.2 F. Agreed. There will never be a perfect system. There will never be (or ever has been) a guarantee that it is safe to travel. All we can do is take the precautions that provide the greatest probabilities of protection. But in the foreseeable future, screening is not going to bring about safe travel. It only takes one person... I just keep reminding myself how much we're saving by not traveling this year and what fantastic future travel that extra money is going to allow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare pinotlover Posted July 6, 2020 #158 Share Posted July 6, 2020 Last week, in one of the science journals, there was a great article on the ongoing efforts to develop a Covid vaccine. The current process, with vaccine testing, is determining the proper dosage of vaccine to be effective. The industry has extensive knowledge on this based on developing common flu and other similar vaccines. The problem a couple of the companies, with promising Covid vaccines, were having is that while results were extremely promising with young or otherwise healthy test recipients, they were bad with the compromised recipients. For those with compromised immune systems , even small doses of the material risks the patient’s health. A lot of work still needs to be done. However, what the article predicted was that the vaccine(s) would still be available by late Fall and would be effective for about 75% of the population. The others would have to wait until something else was developed for them. Many of those “ others” were seasoned citizens. The government was not going to withhold a vaccine(s) that was effective for that high percentage of the population! This goes back to my earlier post on testing. If/when we develop effective testing and protocols, we could help some of those remaining 25% live a more normal life. We aren’t there yet, but hopefully soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulchili Posted July 6, 2020 #159 Share Posted July 6, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, pinotlover said: We are not far away from countries requiring medical forms, with shot records, to travel into their countries. I’ve read where the EU is already discussing it. It will be required at flight check in and again at immigrations. With the new technologies, I believe the days of sick, and particularly fevered regardless of cause, passengers getting on a international flight are numbered. This is almost useless. If the letter is even a day old it is irrelevant (unless you are talking about a COVID vaccine) - never mind the source of it. The only thing that would work most reliably is on the spot testing if & when such a quick test is developed. And this can be repeated during the cruise as passengers return from their shore excursions. Then you'll have a ship w/o COVID passengers. Edited July 6, 2020 by Paulchili 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare pinotlover Posted July 6, 2020 #160 Share Posted July 6, 2020 25 minutes ago, Paulchili said: This is almost useless. If the letter is even a day old it is irrelevant (unless you are talking about a COVID vaccine) - never mind the source of it. The only thing that would work most reliably is on the spot testing if & when such a quick test is developed. And this can be repeated during the cruise as passengers return from their shore excursions. Then you'll have a ship w/o COVID passengers. I was talking about a Covid vaccine. The article was predicting that if a vaccine is developed in the next 6-12 months, that the EU nations would require it for all visitors by 1/1/22 with no exceptions. Those that don’t or can’t get the vaccine wouldn’t get on the planes or ships to get them there. Until the vaccine is developed and distributed, there we be no perfect. Even the vaccine will not be perfect because some will not be able to take it. The world will continue to advance until that vaccine comes along, and will not be shutdown because intermediary solutions don’t fit everyone’s description of perfect. The many intermediary steps taken will not be “ useless “, just steps to the final goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clo Posted July 7, 2020 #161 Share Posted July 7, 2020 8 hours ago, pinotlover said: I was talking about a Covid vaccine. The article was predicting that if a vaccine is developed in the next 6-12 months, that the EU nations would require it for all visitors by 1/1/22 with no exceptions. Those that don’t or can’t get the vaccine wouldn’t get on the planes or ships to get them there. Until the vaccine is developed and distributed, there we be no perfect. Even the vaccine will not be perfect because some will not be able to take it. The world will continue to advance until that vaccine comes along, and will not be shutdown because intermediary solutions don’t fit everyone’s description of perfect. The many intermediary steps taken will not be “ useless “, just steps to the final goal. So it sounds like you think cruising is over until at least 2022. That would be my best guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted July 7, 2020 #162 Share Posted July 7, 2020 10 hours ago, clo said: So it sounds like you think cruising is over until at least 2022. That would be my best guess. At the rate some things are going backwards it sure could be 2022. Not too happy about that. Hope the cruise lines can make it till then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare ORV Posted July 7, 2020 #163 Share Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, clo said: So it sounds like you think cruising is over until at least 2022. That would be my best guess. I don't think he was saying that at all. The companies probably can't last that long without revenue. Edited July 7, 2020 by ORV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted July 7, 2020 #164 Share Posted July 7, 2020 5 hours ago, ORV said: I don't think he was saying that at all. The companies probably can't last that long without revenue. Will be a problem unless there is a vaccine that works well. I just read that Carnival is putting some sailings off until Feb. None of the cruise lines really have a current plan to start up. The virus is getting worse in a number of states so there is no way for ships to sail without being in danger. Have to hope for the best and plan for the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare ORV Posted July 7, 2020 #165 Share Posted July 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, RJB said: Will be a problem unless there is a vaccine that works well. I just read that Carnival is putting some sailings off until Feb. None of the cruise lines really have a current plan to start up. The virus is getting worse in a number of states so there is no way for ships to sail without being in danger. Have to hope for the best and plan for the worst. I wouldn't think you would be worried, after all in 99% of the cases it's harmless. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted July 7, 2020 #166 Share Posted July 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, ORV said: I wouldn't think you would be worried, after all in 99% of the cases it's harmless. But it is the 1% that can get you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clo Posted July 7, 2020 #167 Share Posted July 7, 2020 2 hours ago, RJB said: The virus is getting worse in a number of states Yeah, like 46. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/03/16/816707182/map-tracking-the-spread-of-the-coronavirus-in-the-u-s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basor Posted July 8, 2020 #168 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 hours ago, clo said: Yeah, like 46. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/03/16/816707182/map-tracking-the-spread-of-the-coronavirus-in-the-u-s Glad to live in one of the States keeping COVID down ......Go Oregon (must be our web feet and rain 🙂 ) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njhorseman Posted July 8, 2020 #169 Share Posted July 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, basor said: Glad to live in one of the States keeping COVID down ......Go Oregon (must be our web feet and rain 🙂 ) Oregon isn't doing well at all according to a couple of sites that gauge the spread of COVID-19 by modeling infection reproduction rates: https://covidactnow.org/us/or?s=61890 https://rt.live/ For that matter the data presented in the NPR report you replied about also shows Oregon isn't doing all that well. average new cases per day have been rising steadily over the past month, increasing steadily in recent weeks from 128 per day three weeks ago to 273 per day this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basor Posted July 8, 2020 #170 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) It is important to report all of the data not cherry pick what fits your narrative.....according to this Oregon has not been steadily increasing over the last few weeks.....let me know if you want more daily reports back farther...our confirmed cases is 3.7% of tested....it obviously goes up and down a bit but that is our most current percentage. I think there are a lot of States that would love to have our numbers! Date URL 7/7/2020 Oregon reports 218 new confirmed and presumptive COVID-19 cases, 5 new deaths 7/6/2020 Oregon reports 168 new confirmed and presumptive COVID-19 cases, 0 new deaths 7/5/2020 Oregon reports 301 new confirmed and presumptive COVID-19 cases, 2 new deaths 7/4/2020 Oregon reports 303 new confirmed and presumptive COVID-19 cases, 4 new deaths 7/3/2020 Oregon reports 344 new confirmed and presumptive COVID-19 cases, 0 new deaths; provides Watch List data 7/2/2020 Oregon reports 375 new confirmed and presumptive COVID-19 cases, 1 new death 7/1/2020 Oregon reports 281 new confirmed and presumptive COVID-19 cases, 1 new death 6/30/2020 Oregon reports 181 new confirmed and presumptive COVID-19 cases 3 new deaths 6/30/2020 Evaluate before you celebrate to help stop the spread of COVID-19 this July 4th 6/29/2020 Oregon reports 146 new confirmed and presumptive COVID-19 cases, 2 new deaths Edited July 8, 2020 by basor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clo Posted July 8, 2020 #171 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 hour ago, basor said: Glad to live in one of the States keeping COVID down ......Go Oregon (must be our web feet and rain 🙂 ) YAY! We have an airbnb booked at the end of the month at Nehalem . Our Seattle daughter and her family, who have been religiously walking the walk, will hopefully be able to join us. We love Oregon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njhorseman Posted July 8, 2020 #172 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, basor said: It is important to report all of the data not cherry pick what fits your narrative.....according to this Oregon has not been steadily increasing over the last few weeks.....let me know if you want more daily reports back farther...our confirmed cases is 3.7% of tested....it obviously goes up and down a bit but that is our most current percentage. I think there are a lot of States that would love to have our numbers! Date URL 7/7/2020 Oregon reports 218 new confirmed and presumptive COVID-19 cases, 5 new deaths 7/6/2020 Oregon reports 168 new confirmed and presumptive COVID-19 cases, 0 new deaths 7/5/2020 Oregon reports 301 new confirmed and presumptive COVID-19 cases, 2 new deaths 7/4/2020 Oregon reports 303 new confirmed and presumptive COVID-19 cases, 4 new deaths 7/3/2020 Oregon reports 344 new confirmed and presumptive COVID-19 cases, 0 new deaths; provides Watch List data 7/2/2020 Oregon reports 375 new confirmed and presumptive COVID-19 cases, 1 new death 7/1/2020 Oregon reports 281 new confirmed and presumptive COVID-19 cases, 1 new death 6/30/2020 Oregon reports 181 new confirmed and presumptive COVID-19 cases 3 new deaths 6/30/2020 Evaluate before you celebrate to help stop the spread of COVID-19 this July 4th 6/29/2020 Oregon reports 146 new confirmed and presumptive COVID-19 cases, 2 new deaths No...your infection numbers are far worse than NJ's and we're worried about the turn we've taken recently...so much so that out governor put the brakes on the reopening process. I'm not cherry picking anything...I'm citing three data sources and two well-regarded effective reproduction rate models, all of which show Oregon to be heading in the wrong direction. The two reproduction rates have very similar results of 1.14 and 1.15 for Oregon, as opposed to 0.94 and 1.00 for NJ. NJ's reproduction rate is the 9th lowest in the US , Oregon's is 33rd, per rt.live ...so almost two thirds of the states have better (in other words, lower) reproduction rates than Oregon. Oregon has a positive test rate of 5.5% per covidactnow.org versus 1.5% for NJ. New Jersey has a bit over twice the population of Oregon, but our average number of new cases per day in the past week is less than 25% higher than Oregon's. Further Oregon is conducting contact tracing on 44% of cases, versus 100% in NJ per covidactnow.org. Adequate contact tracing is considered a key measure to control the spread of COVID-19. I'm not trying to make this into a war of NJ versus Oregon...my purpose is to show that you're misinterpreting or misunderstanding the numbers you're looking at. We're worried here, but our numbers are far better than yours, so maybe yours aren't as good as you think. Edited July 8, 2020 by njhorseman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basor Posted July 8, 2020 #173 Share Posted July 8, 2020 New And Total Cases, By State And Territory Data as of 4:33 a.m. on July 7, 2020. Daily heatmap as of 11:59 p.m. ET, July 6. PERCENT CHANGE VS. PREVIOUS WEEK -100% -50% -5% +5% +50% +100% AVG. NEW CASES/DAY TOTALS SINCE JANUARY STATE 3 weeks ago 2 weeks ago Last week This week CASES DEATHS United States 21,749 28,325 39,767 49,344 2,938,473 130,303 New York 735 649 635 674 397,649 32,219 California 3,130 4,148 5,554 6,770 273,577 6,460 Florida 1,775 3,270 6,589 8,587 206,447 3,778 Texas 1,964 3,940 5,559 6,991 205,642 2,677 New Jersey 372 330 265 334 173,611 15,229 Illinois 657 601 748 772 147,865 7,026 Massachusetts 295 217 223 196 110,137 8,198 Arizona 1,309 2,536 2,849 3,844 101,455 1,829 Georgia 845 1,073 1,927 2,521 97,064 2,878 Pennsylvania 464 427 556 662 95,100 6,754 North Carolina 1,228 1,264 1,396 1,577 74,775 1,432 Michigan 140 267 324 435 73,267 6,221 Maryland 518 367 379 379 69,904 3,246 Louisiana 589 438 977 1,321 66,327 3,296 Virginia 519 511 532 559 66,102 1,853 Ohio 391 566 787 987 57,956 2,927 Tennessee 571 650 963 1,392 52,039 652 Indiana 401 315 371 471 48,524 2,698 Connecticut 163 78 83 88 46,976 4,338 South Carolina 654 898 1,283 1,677 46,380 827 Alabama 764 597 960 1,100 44,878 1,007 Minnesota 353 362 376 387 38,569 1,511 Washington 302 387 483 676 36,985 1,369 Colorado 159 201 258 249 34,240 1,691 Wisconsin 271 305 427 572 32,061 796 Iowa 296 295 386 416 31,764 725 Mississippi 290 361 605 670 31,257 1,114 Utah 327 471 537 544 25,469 190 Arkansas 454 452 596 571 24,253 292 Missouri 180 283 389 414 24,211 1,051 Nevada 214 316 624 716 22,909 537 Nebraska 152 159 154 143 20,046 283 Kentucky 167 170 215 258 17,152 593 Rhode Island 64 52 44 32 16,991 960 Kansas 111 158 254 347 16,638 285 Oklahoma 173 331 349 455 16,362 399 New Mexico 112 121 184 218 13,507 515 Delaware 53 69 79 131 12,293 512 District of Columbia 59 37 33 32 10,515 561 Oregon 128 180 200 273 10,395 215 Puerto Rico 121 96 98 191 8,585 155 Idaho 30 122 214 329 8,052 94 South Dakota 65 57 56 56 7,105 97 New Hampshire 38 30 29 22 5,914 382 North Dakota 32 30 32 44 3,849 80 West Virginia 23 33 45 82 3,442 95 Maine 32 23 35 29 3,423 109 Wyoming 17 22 31 32 1,675 20 Vermont 8 5 6 6 1,251 56 Montana 9 18 26 47 1,249 23 Alaska 14 14 20 37 1,162 16 Hawaii 9 11 12 19 1,030 19 Guam 1 5 4 7 301 5 Virgin Islands 0 1 1 4 112 6 Northern Marianas 0 0 0 0 31 2 American Samoa 0 0 0 0 0 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petoonya Posted July 8, 2020 #174 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 hours ago, clo said: YAY! We have an airbnb booked at the end of the month at Nehalem . Our Seattle daughter and her family, who have been religiously walking the walk, will hopefully be able to join us. We love Oregon. Tillamook County, is home to Nehalem, and doing beautifully with 5.7 cases per 10000 since testing began. 50 miles south is Lincoln County where I live, and it sucks by comparison. 71.7 per 10000 positive cases.. An outbreak at a seafood processing facility in Newport has been painful. I'm a retired RN and the 28 bed hospital is so overwhelmed I was asked to return to work. We're beginning to shun tourism again and considering closing beaches. We are the unclean. Nehalem is lovely and a perfect choice. Mandatory masks, and no seafood processing. 😉 Have fun. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njhorseman Posted July 8, 2020 #175 Share Posted July 8, 2020 8 hours ago, basor said: New And Total Cases, By State And Territory What you posted proves my point. Do you see all the shades of orange on Oregon's graphic? Oranges and reds indicate high infection growth rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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