Wondering if Cunard covid safe return may match Crystal

[mcloaked]

I saw that Crystal Cruises has implemented a strict new policy on how they will manage covid safe cruising when they return to cruising after the New Year.  I wonder if Cunard may implement something quite similar?  The Crystal covid policy is at https://www.crystalcruises.com/health-and-safety-hub and the full details are on their web page.  Their policy includes things like:

 

passengers will be required to complete a Covid-19 test prior to departure and also provide a printed copy of their negative test result at check-in.

Along with the pre-check-in test, passengers will also be required to have a test taken upon arrival for boarding. Only passengers with a negative test result will be able to board the ship.

 

In accordance with the protocols, passengers will have to social distance on board, have valid Covid-friendly travel insurance and undergo regular temperature checks.

 

Self-serve and buffet dining will be eliminated, as well as self-guided shore excursions and all public areas and guest accommodation will be regularly deep cleaned.

 

Other protocols include high-frequency purification, which will stretch to every restaurant, lounge, gym, casino, restroom, corridor, nightclub and theatre. This will also include the cleaning of these areas with hospital-grade disinfectant.

 

Discussing the new double testing measures, a spokesperson for the brand said: “Guests who do not comply with this requirement will not be permitted to re-board the ship.”

 

Perhaps this will become fairly typical across other cruise lines including Cunard?

[janert]

What travel insurance company in the US covers Covid 19?

[mcloaked]

I would imagine that insurers (or their actuaries) will be looking carefully at premiums and covid cover details as the time when cruising really gets going again becomes closer, and might depend on how the pandemic unfolds over the coming winter.  I would imagine it would be necessary to look at the policy details of existing annual policies to see if they cover covid or not, and possibly take out a new policy when it gets nearer to the time.  Those in the UK that I have seen would not cover cancellation before the start of a cruise, or cancellation due to 'concerns' about covid ahead of embarkation, but might cover becoming ill with covid whilst on board. Maybe those with more knowledge will post here too.

[BlueRiband]

2 hours ago, mcloaked said:

...In accordance with the protocols, passengers will have to social distance on board...

 

Perhaps this will become fairly typical across other cruise lines including Cunard?

Cunard would do something similar and it's a deal killer for me.  I won't book until I can assured that the "old normal" can return.

[jimdee3636]

Although I could live with---and in a couple of cases even welcome---some of these restrictions, the deal-breaker for me (on any cruise line) would be a requirement that the only way I could get off the ship in a port would be to go on a cruise-line-sanctioned tour. For my wife and me, one of the greatest joys of cruising is exploring ports on our own, or hiring a cab driver for an hour or two to take us around the area. I would not go on a bus tour even if it were free.

[Germancruiser]

I would very much enjoy QM2 with all the implemented new regulations - Shore excursions are nice- but - as I love Transatlantic´s I would be happy just to cruise to nowhere on board a QM2 sailing at half capacity.

I am about to board the MS1 for cruise to Stockholm- Scenic Tour- no excursions at all- can´t wait to board friday. The ship sails with max. of 60% of its usual 3000 passengers.

My first pandemic style voyage was on board MS2 - a four nighter to test the waters- so to speak-- I loved every single minute on board. Here a " live from" my experience:

 

or a more actual cruise really Live, from another fellow German and cruise critic memeber:

 

 

[BlueRiband]

Many things that I enjoy about sailing on QM2 would be gone.    I've enjoyed many an evening were our table was the last to leave the dining room.   Strangers sharing a large table would not be permitted.   Teak sun loungers would be gone as they would otherwise have to be sanitized between each user.   No spa hydrotherapy pool as indoor pools are banned along with any spa massages and body treatments.   Could the Library open as people handle the books and those are not easily sanitized?  The Queens Room empty in the evenings as only passengers who travel together could dance together.  Bar service only at appropriately socially distanced tables.  

 

The whole scene would be reminiscent of one of Bill Miller's talks about the dying days of the original QE and QM when crew members exceeded passengers on some sailings.

 

Everyone has their own reasons for sailing and new protocols affect people differently.    More power to those who are able to make the best of a bad situation.

[Germancruiser]

I agree, bluemarble it would be a bit difficult for QM2- but listen to nice music in the Queens Room is also a nice idea. As for the teak sun loungers- well I would miss them too.. but in inclement weather they would be useless anyways.

The library - well-  bookshelfs closed I suppose. Nice to sit and read there though- limited seating argangements though.

All provided the ship sails at a max. of 60% capacity.

Would I go on board in those circumstances- YES I WOULD- IN A HEARTBEAT.

 

[tacticalbanjo]

I was going to hold off on booking until I knew that the things I loved were going to come back but somehow my husband has convinced me to book two trips. I'm coming around to the view that if you don't use it, you'll lose it and that there is much less chance of it coming back at all if the ships aren't profitable. Can any cruise line afford to have ships sitting there unused until there's a vaccine or the virus is at manageable levels? Back to normal could be years away.

 

So we are going to carry on sailing - and more importantly spending. When we do get on board we'll make sure we feed back about the bits of the experience we missed. I've already had a survey to fill in about what I'm most looking forward to so in effect I've already been able to give feedback as to what we see as essentials to a Cunard trip. I think I'll just be glad to be somewhere that isn't my house!

[mcloaked]

Concerning travel medical insurance it is easy to see what the issues are. If you take some illustrative figures so, for example, if a passenger is prepared to pay $500 for covid cover medical insurance for travel, and let's say 1 in 100 people who are on a cruise are unfortunate enough to be infected and become ill enough to need hospitalisation and possibly repatriation, and then if, say, the medical treatment and related costs are $100,000 then it would take 200 people who have paid the same insurance premium for the same cover to provide sufficient funds to pay for the treatment. So the insurance would be unviable.  In reality costs for a passenger who was seriously ill and need a ventilator bed in ICU for several weeks, might run up costs considerably in excess of $100,000 and therefore, since the insurance company would need to cover all the other usual risks as well as pay for its staff and buildings as well as taxes, then in order to be financially viable, under these assumptions the premium might be well in excess of $1000 to $2000 which many passengers might find unacceptable.  On the other hand if a vaccine became available that changed the number of passengers who may contract covid to around 1 passenger in 1000, then there could be insurance premiums of order several hundred dollars, and the insurance policy could become financially viable. So it would need really up to date reliable statistics for the insurance actuaries to be able to work out of a sensible insurance premium could be offered for a travel policy to cover people who have been vaccinated, and still allow the insurer to be financially viable, and not go bust.   In that case the choice would be that the insurer could only offer covid cover for people who had documented evidence if having been vaccinated, so that the risks could be paid for. Anyone not wishing to be vaccinated would not be offered cover in that case since their risk of needing costly treatment would be higher than the insurer could take on board and still be financially viable. So the insurance is not a question of people's opinion about vaccination but a hard mathematical consequence of the risks being much less to both passengers and the insurer if a policy holder is vaccinated as opposed to those who are not. 

 

If anyone would not accept vaccination then they may be unable to get travel insurance that covered covid hospitalisation costs whilst on a cruise, and they may not have their own resources to pay for extremely costly medical treatment - which means that the cruise company may be in a possible difficult position and have to cover some costs - which the cruise company may not accept as a risk, and therefore the cruise companies may well not allow passengers on board without insurance that would cover that risk. I guess that is the reason for the Crystal policy requiring passengers to provide evidence of valid insurance cover.

 

So having a covid vaccine could make the difference between having medical travel cover, or not, and also would then lead to a far greater improvement in the restrictions that the cruise companies would need to apply to passengers and crew, and a viable return to the kind of cruise life we would all like to enjoy would become possible.  Hopefully in the next year one or more vaccines will become available to us all, and then life on board will be fun again! 

Edited September 30, 2020 by mcloaked
Added more info

[mcloaked]

By the way a similar analysis of the numbers for viable financing and covid hospitalisation and treatment costs would apply at the country level or the city level, or the State level.  Private medical insurance has to be able to cover the cost of policy holders' costs in the event of being unlucky enough to fall victim to covid. Whether or not the insurance scheme can survive may ultimately also depend on whether its policy holders are vaccinated or not.  So it is not too difficult to see just why governments are prepared to spend previously unheard of amounts of cash on vaccine development.  Whether that investment works out will be evidenced by what happens to the level of covid cases and deaths this coming winter in the northern hemisphere, and of course next year in the southern hemisphere winter too. If the virus is not controlled then the health care systems will be overwhelmed since even if the finances are kept viable, there still has to be enough hospital capacity to handle the number of cases at all times as we go through the winter.  So although levels of ill patients around 1% seem low at first sight, in fact even at that level it is close to the capacity available in many situations, and as we can see paying for the outcome is a serious issue. So we all have to do what we can to keep the virus at bay until a vaccine becomes available by adhering to the various restrictions and controls that each government has brought in and will change as the situation changes.   I am keen to get on with life and enjoy cruises but I know that we have a period of hunkering down so that as many of us as possible will survive through to when cruising is viable and safe (hopefully next year!).

Edited September 30, 2020 by mcloaked
typo

[deck chair]

Hi!

 

No way will I sail with Cunard if measures similar to Crystal are implemented.  I am now booked on four segments of the 2022 world Cruise on QM2 beginning January 3.  (NY to Sydney.)  I am hoping conditions will be back to normal by then.   If not, I'm out and I doubt I will be alone.   Thank you.

Deck Chair.

[Underwatr]

16 hours ago, BlueRiband said:

Strangers sharing a large table would not be permitted. 

Are you reading that somewhere or supposing? 

 

Edit: I do see "Social distancing of at least six feet (two meters) of those outside of one’s travel party will be required; this includes dance partners "

 

dealbreaker for me as well

Edited September 30, 2020 by Underwatr

[Covepointcruiser]

What makes plastic loungers better than teak?    Both can be sanitized.    I believe the guidelines want you to be socially distanced outside when you are not wearing a mask.   It would be easy to space out the deck chairs especially on transatlantic.   If you dine with a group at a table you will have to stay at that table so your contacts, especially while eating, can be tracked.    The buffet, will probably be served to you while you are seated at a table.    Don’t know why the spa can’t do massages as spa services are ongoing through most of the U.S.   In Maryland you do have to wear a mask during a massage but not during a facial.

[BlueRiband]

8 hours ago, Underwatr said:

[ In reply to:   On 9/29/2020 at 11:56 PM, BlueRiband said:

Strangers sharing a large table would not be permitted. ]

 

.......Are you reading that somewhere or supposing? ....

 

dealbreaker for me as well

I got that from the EU Healthy Gateways draft which is one of several documents that Palethrope said that he is using to guide a startup.   That document specifically stated that only passengers who are traveling together should be permitted to dine together.  Thus anybody sailing solo would be dining solo.

[deck chair]

10 hours ago, Underwatr said:

Are you reading that somewhere or supposing? 

 

Edit: I do see "Social distancing of at least six feet (two meters) of those outside of one’s travel party will be required; this includes dance partners "

 

 

Hi

 

I note that until further notice Crystal is cancelling their dance host program when they resume sailing.  I assume that means no dancing allowed with anyone not your travel partner. I am curious who is going to enforce this rule in the dance venues?   I assume the members of the orchestra would have to distance as well.  May be impractical.  Leads me to think Crystal will rely on taped dance music.  No thanks!   This will also mean no  captain's receptions and world club events.  Also, as a solo traveler there is no way I'm paying thousands of dollars and then be isolated in the lounges and dining room.  Limited social life for the solo traveler!  Limited social life for all passengers with social distancing and capacity controls.   That will be wonderful!  Unless there are normal conditions on the ship I'm sadly out.

 

Deck Chair

[mcloaked]

I guess the dance host cancellation at Crystal Cruises is reflecting the fact that on land, at least here in the UK, social dancing is not permitted at present as the risks cannot be mitigated with people unable to keep a suitable distance, and of course during exercise breathing more and therefore droplet transmission is increased.  We also feel the desire to have ballroom dancing as a central essential of our cruises, so hopefully when a vaccine allows more normal activities to resume we will be keen to get back on board provided we can still dance! It would not surprise me if Cunard also temporarily cancels their dance host programme, though I have not heard anything confirming that expectation.

Edited October 1, 2020 by mcloaked
typo

[akmday10]

My only concern if Cunard follows Crystals new rules is having to take the COVID test, while I understand it is a good idea, what if you do test positive, do you get a refund on your holiday? Or is all the money lost?

[mcloaked]

2 hours ago, akmday10 said:

My only concern if Cunard follows Crystals new rules is having to take the COVID test, while I understand it is a good idea, what if you do test positive, do you get a refund on your holiday? Or is all the money lost?

 

I think we would all like to know the answer to those questions - and I imagine that the conditions of booking would make it clear what happens in the event of testing positive. I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to offer FCC towards an alternate booking, but having the option of a refund would surely be there too.  Although I have never had an illness issue in the past, what were the options prior to the pandemic if you arrived to check in but were then suffering from a fever on the day and were not fit to board? I would be really surprised if you would lose your money in the event of testing covid positive when the pause is ended. 

[ace2542]

On 9/29/2020 at 9:54 PM, mcloaked said:

I saw that Crystal Cruises has implemented a strict new policy on how they will manage covid safe cruising when they return to cruising after the New Year.  I wonder if Cunard may implement something quite similar?  The Crystal covid policy is at https://www.crystalcruises.com/health-and-safety-hub and the full details are on their web page.  Their policy includes things like:

 

passengers will be required to complete a Covid-19 test prior to departure and also provide a printed copy of their negative test result at check-in.

Along with the pre-check-in test, passengers will also be required to have a test taken upon arrival for boarding. Only passengers with a negative test result will be able to board the ship.

 

In accordance with the protocols, passengers will have to social distance on board, have valid Covid-friendly travel insurance and undergo regular temperature checks.

 

Self-serve and buffet dining will be eliminated, as well as self-guided shore excursions and all public areas and guest accommodation will be regularly deep cleaned.

 

Other protocols include high-frequency purification, which will stretch to every restaurant, lounge, gym, casino, restroom, corridor, nightclub and theatre. This will also include the cleaning of these areas with hospital-grade disinfectant.

 

Discussing the new double testing measures, a spokesperson for the brand said: “Guests who do not comply with this requirement will not be permitted to re-board the ship.”

 

Perhaps this will become fairly typical across other cruise lines including Cunard?

Good ideas but a few problems i can foresee. How long does it take to get those tests back, and do they have the staff to do them considering the port departure time issue? They will get hit with fines if they miss it. And do they have the testing capacity which is lacking around the world at the moment?  And also how do you keep people separated until the negative test is confirmed again considering departure and passenger arrival times. If an infected person does mix with the boarding passengers before the result is back that could be a big problem. And also from a UK prospective could be tough for Cunard to resume operations at least transatlantic crossings given the USA travel ban which may last for a long time.

[Colin_Cameron]

2 hours ago, mcloaked said:

... what were the options prior to the pandemic if you arrived to check in but were then suffering from a fever on the day and were not fit to board?

Thankfully I've never had that problem but I expect the answer would be that you would claim your insurance. It's nothing to do with Cunard if you're unfit to travel.

 

I'm wondering what would happen in the case where you test positive at the dock and are denied boarding. When you're retested it turns out to have been a false positive. Your insurance company denies your claim under your Covid cover because you haven't got, and never had Covid. Is Cunard (or any other cruiseline) liable for administering an unreliable test?

Edited October 1, 2020 by Colin_Cameron

[newjoisey]

I would not even think about cruising again until i have had a vaccine . Then i would look at the restrictions and there better be VERY FEW or my diamond status upgrade will be put off 

[Victoria2]

All this talk about a vaccine.

 

Has anyone given any thoughts to the fact there might not be one which stops the virus in its tracks?

My hope is, as the virus becomes more endemic and we learn more on how to deal with severe cases, we will learn to live with it, as we do with seasonal flu which will probably kill just as many people each year going forward, as Covid 19.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Victoria2

[Ray66]

There's an interesting article just gone up on CC

 

UK Cruise Industry Groups Submit Resumption Plan

 

https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/5640/

 

 

[BlueRiband]

Mask wearing and capacity limitations at entertainment venues are specifically mentioned.  I won't be booking.