CDC Order

[LoriPhil]

Rather than FDA slow balling, I believe it’s pharmaceutical companies that are delaying release of vaccines until their own testing and safety protocols are satisfied, which is a reasonable path to help move us forward.  I’m guessing 2nd q 2021 for general public use, but think we should start a pool on the date. 😉

[HappyInVan]

2 hours ago, stevenr597 said:

I was hopeful for a vaccine to be available by mid-Fall.  But I do not think we will have a vaccine until well after a new President is sworn in, perhaps not until the Summer. 

 

Not sure what your experience in vaccines has been? The development of the covid vaccines has been rushing along at warp speeds. This is what Moderna says...

 

"Moderna CEO Stéphane Bancel said Wednesday that the company will not have enough data to file for emergency use authorization of its vaccine candidate until November 25, weeks after Americans go to the polls."

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/world/coronavirus-newsletter-10-01-20-intl/index.html

 

Don't blame the FDA or Moderna.

[capriccio]

2 hours ago, LoriPhil said:

Rather than FDA slow balling, I believe it’s pharmaceutical companies that are delaying release of vaccines until their own testing and safety protocols are satisfied, which is a reasonable path to help move us forward. 

 

I agree.  The FDA process for vaccine development and approval is not something they are making up on the fly as much as some politicians wish they would.   It is well documented (see https:/t/www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/development-approval-process-cber/vaccine-product-approval-process).

 

I have heard/seen various FDA officials, public health experts and executives of the pharmaceutical companies conducting tests say that short cuts will not be taken in the approval process.  To do so would be too great a risk to the public and to the companies involved.

[caribill]

The other evening the President promised 200,000 inoculations a day once a vaccine is approved.

 

Do the calculation.

 

If only a single shot was required, it would take 4.5 years for everyone in the USA to get inoculated.

 

If two shots were required, it would take 9 years.

[ontheweb]

13 hours ago, stevenr597 said:

I doubt that we will see any cruising until a vaccine is available to the general public.  Unfortunately it appears that for several reasons the FDA has decided to slow walk a vaccine.  I was hopeful for a vaccine to be available by mid-Fall.  But I do not think we will have a vaccine until well after a new President is sworn in, perhaps not until the Summer. 

What is your definition of "slow walk"?

 

What they seem to be doing is trying their best to see that the vaccine is both safe and with relatively few side effects.

[Potstech]

4 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Moderna is not the only company working on a vaccine. 

[Potstech]

5 hours ago, caribill said:

The other evening the President promised 200,000 inoculations a day once a vaccine is approved.

 

Do the calculation.

 

If only a single shot was required, it would take 4.5 years for everyone in the USA to get inoculated.

 

If two shots were required, it would take 9 years.

That is true IF that 200,000 number does not change which it most likely will over time. Also the SCIENTIST state that only about 70% need to get the vaccine in order to  be considered as working.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Potstech

[HappyInVan]

Have you guys heard? Outbreak in the white House. IMO, it validates the CDC ban. How can you keep covid off the ships when you can't keep it out of the West Wing?

[caribill]

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

Have you guys heard? Outbreak in the white House. IMO, it validates the CDC ban. How can you keep covid off the ships when you can't keep it out of the West Wing?

 

Guess who was around people who did not use masks.

[Potstech]

And here comes the political statements

[greenie082756]

Squirrel.

 

The point is we are all cruisers who want to go on a cruise ship. We are waiting for business to open without huge restrictions.  We are waiting for those who make THE decisions on whether we cruise in the US of A. Its frustrating.

 

I  am empathic with those who hope to cruise again this winter. Hoping that we can ALL do so safely and still enjoy the experience. Lets hope cooler and smarter heads prevail.

[toeloop]

My sister and I are booked on a Christmas sailing.  We have no worries.  We drive to the port.  I would prefer to not have to wear a mask .  Even with frequent changes ,they have caused me to get infections.   My pulmonologist has told me to avoid wearing them, and not to worry.   I have been living my life and going and doing what I want to do.  In my opinion, living in an apartment by oneself in fear is not a life worth living.  Now cruising, that is a life worth living.   The ships need to get sailing, people need to get back to work.  If not, there won't be a Princess to cruise on.

[stevenr597]

Can we have a vaccine ready for emergency use for targeted groups by mid to late Fall?  I do believe that the answer is yes.  Will we...the answer is probably not.  I do believe, and like I said, it is just my beliefafter practicing medicine for over 30 years,  that there is a lot of political pressure to slow ball the release of a vaccine.  We must remember that it was the FDA and the CDC which held up the release of a rapid Coronavirus test, and infact the PCR Assay for detection of SARS-Covid-2 was delayed by approximately one month which did cost many many lives.  

I would suggest reading the excellent series in the Wall Street Journal which has appeared over the past month in regards to COVID

But getting back to my original point...There may be some “trial” cruises, but until we have a safe and effective vaccine, we will not see the cruise industry back in business. 

[HappyInVan]

7 minutes ago, stevenr597 said:

We must remember that it was the FDA and the CDC which held up the release of a rapid Coronavirus test, and infact the PCR Assay for detection of SARS-Covid-2 was delayed by approximately one month which did cost many many lives.  
 

 

Was that the same rapid test that was used by the White House?

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/21/838794281/study-raises-questions-about-false-negatives-from-quick-covid-19-test

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/06/coronavirus-testing-failure-123166

 

 

[score34]

Unless they make the Flu vaccine mandatory, (Currently voluntary) which kills up to 62,000 (CDC) people annually in the Us and  650,000 (WHO) Globally, demanding that a Covid 19 vaccine would be mandatory to be the only way to cruise is ridiculous! Also so lets just ignore that 600,000 people world wide die from Hepatitis and there has never been a call to get immunized to be able to cruise! Immunizations and world wide shut downs have never happened before why would this be required now! Getting a vaccine with no long term data is ridiculous just to say oh its ok for you to travel! There Will be no proof you will not contract the disease.  The Flu should scare you more but no one wears masks or does social distancing during the high Flu season! Let’s get real. 

 

[capriccio]

1 minute ago, score34 said:

The Flu should scare you more but no one wears masks or does social distancing during the high Flu season! Let’s get real. 

 

 

But many of us do get the annual flu vaccine which is, obviously, not visible to other cruisers.

 

We always take an October cruise (we planned to be on a Tahiti cruise in less than 2 weeks 😭) and frequently another cruise in January.   My DH and I have gotten the flu shot every year for 30 years after I had an extremely bad case in my mid 30s.  When we reached 65 we got the pneumonia vaccine too.  We've never had a case of the flu or pneumonia in all that time.

[iancal]

Keep in mind that executives of these the firms who are developing vaccines and making public statements about it have another interest.  Keeping the stock price high.  For their investors and for their own performance payments-bonus, stock options, and RSUs.   
 

They  are hardly going to disseminate that will damage the image of their employer or their personal compensation.

Edited October 3, 2020 by iancal

[capriccio]

On 10/1/2020 at 9:20 PM, HappyInVan said:

 

Not sure what your experience in vaccines has been? The development of the covid vaccines has been rushing along at warp speeds. This is what Moderna says...

 

"Moderna CEO Stéphane Bancel said Wednesday that the company will not have enough data to file for emergency use authorization of its vaccine candidate until November 25, weeks after Americans go to the polls."

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/01/world/coronavirus-newsletter-10-01-20-intl/index.html

 

Don't blame the FDA or Moderna.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/pfizer-ceo-says-covid-vaccine-trial-won-t-be-rushed-n1241737

 

Pfizer CEO, Albert Bourla,  says Covid vaccine trial won't be rushed by political pressure. 

 

He told the employees Thursday that the company is “moving at the speed of science,” rather than under any political timing, according to a staff letter obtained by The Associated Press.

 

Bourla and top executives of eight other companies developing COVID-19 vaccines and treatments pledged in early September not to seek even emergency use authorization, let alone a full approval of their products, until they were proven safe and effective.

 

 

[caribill]

10 hours ago, toeloop said:

I would prefer to not have to wear a mask .  Even with frequent changes ,they have caused me to get infections.   My pulmonologist has told me to avoid wearing them, and not to worry.   I have been living my life and going and doing what I want to do. 

 

a) Obviously if there is a medical reason to avoid wearing a mask, then you should not do so.

 

b) When you say not to worry because you are not wearing a mask is missing the point of wearing a mask. People need to wear masks to avoid infecting other people because the mask wearer may have an undetected case of Covid-19 and can affect other people. If you do not wear a mask, then the people who should worry is anyone around you.

[SargassoPirate]

9 hours ago, score34 said:

Unless they make the Flu vaccine mandatory, (Currently voluntary) which kills up to 62,000 (CDC) people annually in the Us and  650,000 (WHO) Globally, demanding that a Covid 19 vaccine would be mandatory to be the only way to cruise is ridiculous! Also so lets just ignore that 600,000 people world wide die from Hepatitis and there has never been a call to get immunized to be able to cruise! Immunizations and world wide shut downs have never happened before why would this be required now! Getting a vaccine with no long term data is ridiculous just to say oh its ok for you to travel! There Will be no proof you will not contract the disease.  The Flu should scare you more but no one wears masks or does social distancing during the high Flu season! Let’s get real. 

 

 

Another consideration is the hysteria and fear surrounding Covid-19 at present.  All it will take is for a "case" to be identified on a ship and here we go again.  

 

I think the only way I would get on a ship in the foreseeable future is if all crew and all passengers were required to show proof of vaccination for Covid-19.  Why allow walking Covid-19 incubators to board and possibly ruin a cruise for everyone?  I don't want to get stuck on a ship or in a foreign port because of an outbreak on ship.

 

 

 

[Steelers36]

2 hours ago, SargassoPirate said:

 

Another consideration is the hysteria and fear surrounding Covid-19 at present.  All it will take is for a "case" to be identified on a ship and here we go again.  

 

I think the only way I would get on a ship in the foreseeable future is if all crew and all passengers were required to show proof of vaccination for Covid-19.  Why allow walking Covid-19 incubators to board and possibly ruin a cruise for everyone?  I don't want to get stuck on a ship or in a foreign port because of an outbreak on ship.

 

 

 

Ok, but then you cannot be assured that everyone in those foreign ports the ship calls on has also been vaccinated.  Are you planning to stay on board?

[richsea]

The bottom line is that once the go ahead is given for cruising to start up again, everyone has to decide for themselves the amount of risk they want to take to go on a cruise. Everyone has different circumstances; there are no right or wrongs here.

Hoping to be back on a ship soon, when we can fell comfortable on board.

Edited October 3, 2020 by richsea

[stevenr597]

15 hours ago, score34 said:

Unless they make the Flu vaccine mandatory, (Currently voluntary) which kills up to 62,000 (CDC) people annually in the Us and  650,000 (WHO) Globally, demanding that a Covid 19 vaccine would be mandatory to be the only way to cruise is ridiculous! Also so lets just ignore that 600,000 people world wide die from Hepatitis and there has never been a call to get immunized to be able to cruise! Immunizations and world wide shut downs have never happened before why would this be required now! Getting a vaccine with no long term data is ridiculous just to say oh its ok for you to travel! There Will be no proof you will not contract the disease.  The Flu should scare you more but no one wears masks or does social distancing during the high Flu season! Let’s get real. 

 

I cannot see the cruise industry permitting people to travel on one of their ships until we have an safe and effective Coronavirus Vaccine.  I do feel that it will be mandatory, until we have found that the virus is no longer a threat, which will be well into next year.  Although one can argue that other members may be effective, the threat of a law suit would be too great for a cruise line to risk.  In addition, signing a waiver against filing a suit would not be feasible. 

[voljeep]

1 minute ago, stevenr597 said:

I cannot see the cruise industry permitting people to travel on one of their ships until we have an safe and effective Coronavirus Vaccine.  I do feel that it will be mandatory, until we have found that the virus is no longer a threat, which will be well into next year.  Although one can argue that other members may be effective, the threat of a law suit would be too great for a cruise line to risk.  In addition, signing a waiver against filing a suit would not be feasible. 

I guess MSC didn't get the memo ... 🍻

 

stay safe 😷

stay hydrated

[stevenr597]

15 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Was that the same rapid test that was used by the White House?

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/04/21/838794281/study-raises-questions-about-false-negatives-from-quick-covid-19-test

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/06/coronavirus-testing-failure-123166

 

 

The White House has used the PCR test which tests for the genetic material of the Coronavirus which is highly accurate, and in fact, may generate some False Positive.  There are a variety of rapid tests out there.  While not as invasive or sensitive as the PCR test, they are approximately 80% accurate and are highly valuable.  In my office we use this type of test for screen for Influenza A and B.  

The FDA delayed the use of both tests, which delayed us being able to detect the emergency of COVID in our population and unfortunately led to many deaths.

The CDC initially thought that mass testing would not be necessary.

If one take a history, temperature check, and demands two of the rapid tests within several days of each other, there would be a very high probability that an individual boarding the liner would not be carrying Coronavirus.