CDC Order

[bennybear]

Back to reality,  Mein Schiff 6 a German cruise line just completed a successful cruise that you can read about on the Celebrity forum,  so it can be done,  pretesting for Covid, less people, distancing and masks.  

Edited October 5, 2020 by bennybear

[Abercrombie2019]

3 minutes ago, bennybear said:

Back to reality,  Mein Schiff 6 a German cruise line just completed a successful cruise that you can read about on the Celebrity forum,  so it can be done,  protesting for Covid, less people, distancing and masks.  

I'm not sure that you meant to type "protesting".  🙂 Did you mean pro testing?  Auto correct gets me all the time.

[bennybear]

4 minutes ago, Abercrombie2019 said:

I'm not sure that you meant to type "protesting".  🙂 Did you mean pro testing?  Auto correct gets me all the time.

Thanks,  good catch,  me and Auto🤷‍♀️

[nocl]

25 minutes ago, bennybear said:

Back to reality,  Mein Schiff 6 a German cruise line just completed a successful cruise that you can read about on the Celebrity forum,  so it can be done,  pretesting for Covid, less people, distancing and masks.  

You missed one other important criteria  sailing out of a country with a relatively low incidence of the virus.

[mnocket]

I'll just leave this here....

 

"CDC Director Dr. Robert Redfield said. “I might even go so far as to say that this face mask is more guaranteed to protect me against Covid than when I take a Covid vaccine.”

[nbsjcruiser]

25 minutes ago, Candocruises said:

No way!!  The pandemic is OVER! 
Source for your statement?

The number of cases, which is greatly exaggerated, is making the death rate, which is also exaggerated, plummet. 

Again - can you please supply a source for this with data supporting your statement? How far has the death rate plummeted, i.e. from what levels has it fallen from? Prove, again with facts to back up your opinion, that the death rate and number of cases is greatly exaggerated. 

 

I am sure this argument has been made many times here but here are some stories you will not hear because they don't exist:  "Military ravaged by Coronavirus."  As of last week there were, hold your breath, 8 deaths of active duty and reservists.  Most deaths are from the 1.4 million reservists, with only a few among the 1.1 million active duty members. 
Source? Define "few", i.e. quantify it.

"Coronavirus ravages Sub-Saharan Africa."  In countries that are extremely poor, have rancid living conditions and populations living in areas where malaria is the biggest threat the virus is not taking lives much less having the number of cases reported in more developed countries. 
Prove your opinion that the virus is not taking lives with facts. 

Wonder what is used by this population to prevent or control the spread of malaria?  Finally, if you are still reading and my post has not been censored, what ever happened to the wealth of knowledge scientists obtained from the controlled environment they had back in March when the Princess ships with Covid were quarantined for weeks? 
I Agree that there was a controlled environment on the Princess ships that had breakouts but its foolhardy to think that all it takes to understand a virus like this is a controlled lab experiment lasting a few days. If it was that easy do you really think the world would still be struggling to find a vaccine or is the entire world in on a big Q conspiracy?

It boggles my mind that people make statements like yours, completely absent of facts and think that your opinion merits some level of acknowledgement. Facebook is a cesspool of people with opinions like this. Its frustrating that the same level of nonsense is allowed on a Cruise site like this.

 

To believe much of what you say is to believe there is some mass world-wide conspiracy where all the governments of the free world are cooperating to trick and fool the entire world's population into thinking millions of people are all sick when they're really not. And mind you, these are governments who take years to negotiate trade deals or treaties but somehow they were all able to magically get together and come up with false numbers in a pandemic that has brought much of the world's economy to a standstill. And for what reason? What's in it for any government to "exaggerate" numbers?

Your opinions are just that, opinions. I could espouse my opinions on brain surgery but it doesn't mean I have a clue what I'm talking about.
 

 

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, Abercrombie2019 said:

If an infected person does not wear a mask, the virus that they are exhaling may hit the face of people that are close to them.  If those people are wearing a cloth mask, they can still breath the virus in. The virus will be able to travel between the fibers of a cloth mask.  (The virus cannot travel through a N95 mask, which is why doctors use them).

So, the virus can travel between the fibers of your mask but it cannot travel through the fibers of my mask?

[Abercrombie2019]

Just now, RocketMan275 said:

So, the virus can travel between the fibers of your mask but it cannot travel through the fibers of my mask?

Nope, didn't say that at all.  The virus is slowed down if the infected person is wearing a mask so it can't travel as far or as fast.  That is why social distancing is also required.  If people are standing too close, they are still in danger.

[Candocruises]

48 minutes ago, nbsjcruiser said:

 

We all have computers and can check what is said on a social media site.  Seeing as you obviously cannot figure that out I will help you. From www.Defense.gov

 

DOD COVID-19 Cumulative Totals

	Cases	Hospitalized	Recovered	Deaths
Military	47,117	625	32,022	8
Civilian	10,650	448	6,922	60
Dependent	6,300	133	4,459	7
Contractor	4,448	185	3,048	23
Total	68,515	1,391	46,451	98

As of 0600, Oct. 5, 2020

[nbsjcruiser]

9 minutes ago, Candocruises said:

We all have computers and can check what is said on a social media site.  Seeing as you obviously cannot figure that out I will help you. From www.Defense.gov

 

DOD COVID-19 Cumulative Totals

	Cases	Hospitalized	Recovered	Deaths
Military	47,117	625	32,022	8
Civilian	10,650	448	6,922	60
Dependent	6,300	133	4,459	7
Contractor	4,448	185	3,048	23
Total	68,515	1,391	46,451	98

As of 0600, Oct. 5, 2020

 

Those numbers mean nothing without the title of each column explaining what each number represents. The remainder of my questions remain - shows the facts to back up your opinions. Prove that the statistics of overall death rate are exaggerated or that infection rates are exaggerated. You said the virus is not taking lives in Africa - prove it. Prove that the numbers reported there are exaggerated.

As a footnote, WHO estimates that 10% of the world's population is infected by Covid: 
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/coronavirus-cases-world-10-cent-deaths-covid-latest-who-b806299.html

I suppose their figures can't be believed tho. They're in the pockets of the Chinese or some such nonsense.

Edited October 5, 2020 by nbsjcruiser

[caribill]

4 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

If my mask protects you from me, why won't your mask protect you from me?

 

If someone is wearing a mask and coughs or sneezes, the big drops stay contained within the mask as well as many of the smaller particles. By keeping these within that person's mask, other people are protected.

 

However, there can still be some fine particles in the air and the masks most people wear will not catch all of them.

[zap99]

3 hours ago, bennybear said:

Thanks,  good catch,  me and Auto🤷‍♀️

You know what you meant. I thought you meant pre testing. Spell check urined another good post.🤣

[stevenr597]

4 hours ago, mnocket said:

I'll just leave this here....

 

"CDC Director Dr. Robert Redfield said. “I might even go so far as to say that this face mask is more guaranteed to protect me against Covid than when I take a Covid vaccine.”

I hope he made a mistake in respect to his comments, no way that a mask will be as effective as a vaccine. 

Edited October 5, 2020 by stevenr597
complete a sentence

[LoriPhil]

Sorry I can’t find reference (article about WHO study I believe) but read that a mask indeed provides a level of protection to the wearer as well, and may reduce the viral load if the wearer is exposed.  Key remains distancing, masks (yes, one that fits and covers your nose) and minimizing congested indoor locations.  Can’t get cocky though, because no system is guaranteed.

Edited October 6, 2020 by LoriPhil

[d9704011]

2 hours ago, stevenr597 said:

I hope he made a mistake in respect to his comments, no way that a mask will be as effective as a vaccine. 

As usual, there is a context to what he said:

 

https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-vaccine-redfield-cdc-masks-30db3e33-dc30-40ed-ad5b-f364a0e544c0.html

[HappyInVan]

9 hours ago, RocketMan275 said:

How many believe we should be wearing masks, socially distancing, etc., until 3rd, maybe 4th quarter 2021 like Fauci says we should?

 

This is what Dr. Fauci said...

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/11/fauci-prepare-to-hunker-down-through-fall-and-winter.html

 

That's why it is critical to bring the epidemic down to low low levels at this time.

 

 

This is what the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota said...

 

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/top-disease-expert-warning-another-165313827.html

 

No one knows what it will be in the spring. I intend to hunker down, maintain discipline and save lives.

 

[HappyInVan]

3 hours ago, stevenr597 said:

I hope he made a mistake in respect to his comments, no way that a mask will be as effective as a vaccine. 

 

As a medical worker, you must know that a vaccine can be as effective as zero...

 

"Vaccine effectiveness studies in both the outpatient setting and adult inpatient setting observed good protection against A(H1N1) and little to no protection against A(H3N2) viruses relative to what is expected for influenza vaccine effectiveness."

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/publications/diseases-conditions/fluwatch/2018-2019/annual-report.html

 

As for the effectiveness of a mask and social distancing, there's plenty of evidence that it is effective together.

[Potstech]

18 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

This is what Dr. Fauci said...

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/11/fauci-prepare-to-hunker-down-through-fall-and-winter.html

 

That's why it is critical to bring the epidemic down to low low levels at this time.

 

 

This is what the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota said...

 

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/top-disease-expert-warning-another-165313827.html

 

No one knows what it will be in the spring. I intend to hunker down, maintain discipline and save lives.

 

And Dr Fauci has never been wrong and is infallible.  Exactly no one knows but we will find out in time.

[SinbadThePorter]

2 hours ago, Potstech said:

And Dr Fauci has never been wrong and is infallible.

 

If you can point out someone who has been more correct and less fallible we would appreciate it.

 

Voodoo practitioners and snake oil salesmen don't count.

[RocketMan275]

9 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

This is what Dr. Fauci said...

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/11/fauci-prepare-to-hunker-down-through-fall-and-winter.html

 

That's why it is critical to bring the epidemic down to low low levels at this time.

 

 

This is what the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota said...

 

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/top-disease-expert-warning-another-165313827.html

 

No one knows what it will be in the spring. I intend to hunker down, maintain discipline and save lives.

 

Good luck.  Unless  you're willing to live alone in your hermetically sealed basement, sterilize every bit of food, drink, etc., entering your basement, you're going to be exposed to  the Wuhan Flu eventually. 

 

We paid 35% of our GDP when we locked down in the spring.    We destroyed millions of jobs.  Untold numbers have committed suicide due to depression.  School children are missing out on critical years of education.  WE increased the national debt by trillions.  The Wuhan Flu is still with us. 

 

How many millions have been infected?  How many have died?  How much more should we pay to stop a virus that isn't much more lethal than the seasonal flu?

 

It's time to put our fears behinds us and move forward with reopening the economy.  As FDR once said:  "Our biggest fear is fear itself."

 

 

 

[Potstech]

6 hours ago, SinbadThePorter said:

 

If you can point out someone who has been more correct and less fallible we would appreciate it.

 

Voodoo practitioners and snake oil salesmen don't count.

My point exactly. He and others have changed their statements snd been wrong many times. Yet if you go on any TV station or news site you will get widely differing  opinions with no provable facts to back them up. If Fauci our " medical expert" it goes to show the fallibility of medicine.

[Abercrombie2019]

In other news, my 78 year old mother (and cancer survivor) appreciates the fact that her neighbors love her enough to wear a mask in public and stay 6 feet away when they see her at the grocery store.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Abercrombie2019
removed part of post

[DCGuy64]

19 hours ago, Candocruises said:

No way!!  The pandemic is OVER!  We now have a "casedemic."  The number of cases, which is greatly exaggerated, is making the death rate, which is also exaggerated, plummet.  I am sure this argument has been made many times here but here are some stories you will not hear because they don't exist:  "Military ravaged by Coronavirus."  As of last week there were, hold your breath, 8 deaths of active duty and reservists.  Most deaths are from the 1.4 million reservists, with only a few among the 1.1 million active duty members.  "Coronavirus ravages Sub-Saharan Africa."  In countries that are extremely poor, have rancid living conditions and populations living in areas where malaria is the biggest threat the virus is not taking lives much less having the number of cases reported in more developed countries.  Wonder what is used by this population to prevent or control the spread of malaria?  Finally, if you are still reading and my post has not been censored, what ever happened to the wealth of knowledge scientists obtained from the controlled environment they had back in March when the Princess ships with Covid were quarantined for weeks?  When and where did they apply this knowledge?  Cruising and airline travel may never return unless the people grow a backbone and stand up and say "enough is enough!"  

Thanks for this post. I mean no disrespect to anyone, but I am NOT making any of my health or cruise decisions based on these threads. As interesting as these discussions are, no one here is (as far as I am aware) a physician, scientist, researcher, statistician, or otherwise an "expert" on COVID-19. Sorry, again no disrespect, I just know that over the past 6 months, I've read comment after comment that turned out to be wrong. Things like "there will be no more cruising in 2020," or "it'll take years to develop a vaccine" or "millions will die just in the USA" or "the cruise lines will go bankrupt." People are absolutely entitled to their opinions. But that's all they are. I'm not changing my plans or my lifestyle based on opinions. Now feel free to keep bickering, LOL.

[stevenr597]

39 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Thanks for this post. I mean no disrespect to anyone, but I am NOT making any of my health or cruise decisions based on these threads. As interesting as these discussions are, no one here is (as far as I am aware) a physician, scientist, researcher, statistician, or otherwise an "expert" on COVID-19. Sorry, again no disrespect, I just know that over the past 6 months, I've read comment after comment that turned out to be wrong. Things like "there will be no more cruising in 2020," or "it'll take years to develop a vaccine" or "millions will die just in the USA" or "the cruise lines will go bankrupt." People are absolutely entitled to their opinions. But that's all they are. I'm not changing my plans or my lifestyle based on opinions. Now feel free to keep bickering, LOL.

I am a physician and an Immunologist.  I have tried to keep my comments and posts as accurate as possible. 

[DCGuy64]

On 10/1/2020 at 6:40 PM, stevenr597 said:

I doubt that we will see any cruising until a vaccine is available to the general public.  Unfortunately it appears that for several reasons the FDA has decided to slow walk a vaccine.  I was hopeful for a vaccine to be available by mid-Fall.  But I do not think we will have a vaccine until well after a new President is sworn in, perhaps not until the Summer. 

You mention that you are a physician and immunologist. Good for you, that's wonderful. So what's your medical basis for the first sentence of this post you made? I am surprised, since there is no vaccine I'm aware of in Europe, and yet MSC and Costa have sailed for weeks without a single case. If a vaccine were necessary in order to have cruising resume, what's the difference between Italy and the US? (PS I am also hopeful for a vaccine, BTW, I just know [not believe, KNOW] that cruising can and has resumed without one).