Any updates regarding CDC No Sail Order

[Arizona Wildcat]

Anyone heard any news?  The order expires in about a week.  The White House held a meeting with cruise execs about 10 days ago then nothing.

 

[phoenix_dream]

Haven't heard anything, other than the usual rumors and speculation (other than Argo's rumor about going all inclusive, which I have not seen anywhere else).  The grapevine said that the CEO would be making some kind of announcement this week.  Considering the week is almost over I don't have a good feeling about this.  I am wondering if the recent uptick in cases in so many states has set the schedule on pause once again

Edited October 22, 2020 by phoenix_dream

[Arizona Wildcat]

33 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

Haven't heard anything, other than the usual rumors and speculation (other than Argo's rumor about going all inclusive, which I have not seen anywhere else).  The grapevine said that the CEO would be making some kind of announcement this week.  Considering the week is almost over I don't have a good feeling about this.  I am wondering if the recent uptick in cases in so many states has set the schedule on pause once again

Certainly possible.  I remember the CDC wanted to extend No Sail till February and White House open in December.  At this point limited sailings would theoretically possible in December, but almost all would violate the CLIA guidelines unless rescheduled as shorter cruises.

The rise of COVID cases worldwide has caused new lockdown and controls.  International air travel is difficult with many bans or quarantines required.  The cruises out of Singapore should be interesting as all passengers can drive to port, no CDC and less COVID there.

[Saturngrl]

Senator Rick Scott is pushing the CDC to open cruising sooner rather than later.  He cited 150,000 jobs in Florida depending on this.   Fingers are crossed!  

[Algebralovr]

I'm ready!  I have a holiday cruise booked and paid for out of Tampa.  The ship barely has any rooms booked at this point, but I'm happy to go and make a technical stop somewhere to stay within the requirements of the PVSA.  It is a 12 night cruise that is supposed to do a half transit through the Canal, but I'll live with just being pampered on the ship.

Meanwhile, I'm playing Cruise Chicken.  Will they cancel or will I?  
If needed, we have a plan to drive the 16 - 18 hours to the port rather than deal with flying.

[cruisestitch]

Since your cruise leaves and returns Tampa, only a foreign port stop is required, not even a distant port which a one way cruise would require

Edited October 24, 2020 by cruisestitch

[Arizona Wildcat]

1 hour ago, cruisestitch said:

Since your cruise leaves and returns Tampa, only a foreign port stop is required, not even a distant port which a one way cruise would require

Or it can be a cruise to nowhere. 

[LGW59]

4 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

Or it can be a cruise to nowhere. 

not from the US it can't

[Arizona Wildcat]

11 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

not from the US it can't

Suggest you download and read the September 2019 USCG PVSA-ICP.pdf.

On pages 15 and 16 there are five exceptions exceptions to PVSA.

Cruises to US possessions, Puerto Rico, Canadian vessels, journeys to distant ports and cruises to nowhere by a "non-coastwise qualified vessel".  Such as Celebrity.  No foreign stops allowed and must return to port of departure.  Miami to.international waters and a return to Miami with no passengers departing the ship at another US port.

 

[LGW59]

14 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

Suggest you download and read the September 2019 USCG PVSA-ICP.pdf.

On pages 15 and 16 there are five exceptions exceptions to PVSA.

Cruises to US possessions, Puerto Rico, Canadian vessels, journeys to distant ports and cruises to nowhere by a "non-coastwise qualified vessel".  Such as Celebrity.  No foreign stops allowed and must return to port of departure.  Miami to.international waters and a return to Miami with no passengers departing the ship at another US port.

 

Yes and the "vessel" must have been built in the United States, won't make any assumption on your behalf, but Celebrity, Carnival, Royal, HAL, Princess, Cunard, Oceana, the list goes on and on and on, virtually ALL major crusie line ships operating in the US, were not built in US shipyards.  

[Arizona Wildcat]

39 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Yes and the "vessel" must have been built in the United States, won't make any assumption on your behalf, but Celebrity, Carnival, Royal, HAL, Princess, Cunard, Oceana, the list goes on and on and on, virtually ALL major crusie line ships operating in the US, were not built in US shipyards.  

Wrong.  A US built ship is a coastwise certified vessel.  A non coastwise - foreign built or flagged 

 

40 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Yes and the "vessel" must have been built in the United States, won't make any assumption on your behalf, but Celebrity, Carnival, Royal, HAL, Princess, Cunard, Oceana, the list goes on and on and on, virtually ALL major crusie line ships operating in the US, were not built in US shipyards.  

Read the whole act.

US built ships are coastwise certified.  They can sail from one US port to another US port.

Foreign built ships are not coastwise certified.  There are 5 exceptions to PVSA.  Thus a foreign flagged ship can travel from Florida to Puerto Rico - an exception.  It can also cruise to nowhere except a return to the point of departure. No passenger can set foot on land except the port where it departed.

Please read the section on exceptions 

[hcat]

On 10/22/2020 at 7:16 PM, phoenix_dream said:

Haven't heard anything, other than the usual rumors and speculation (other than Argo's rumor about going all inclusive, which I have not seen anywhere else).  The grapevine said that the CEO would be making some kind of announcement this week.  Considering the week is almost over I don't have a good feeling about this.  I am wondering if the recent uptick in cases in so many states has set the schedule on pause once again

 

Not sure any announcement now would be good news..but at least those with cruises booked in the  near future might find out if they will be cancelled.

[cruisestitch]

While the PVSA might allow a cruise to nowhere, regulations regarding the kinds of visas the crew would require generally make the idea impractical.

[Baron Barracuda]

Thought CBP outlawed cruises to nowhere five years ago.

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Customs-says-cruises-to-nowhere-were-never-legal

[Gracie115]

Our first cruise on the Eclipse was a "cruise to nowhere" out of Miami, 4 nights out and back, just after she debuted.

[Fouremco]

42 minutes ago, Baron Barracuda said:

Thought CBP outlawed cruises to nowhere five years ago.

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Customs-says-cruises-to-nowhere-were-never-legal

An interesting article, but I still have trouble with CBP's contention that a ship is still in the US until it lands in a foreign port or territory. Using that logic, a Russian nuclear submarine should feel free to surface in Chesapeake Bay, as it would still be in Russia, according to CBP, as long as it didn't land elsewhere on its way to the US.

[nocl]

18 hours ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

Suggest you download and read the September 2019 USCG PVSA-ICP.pdf.

On pages 15 and 16 there are five exceptions exceptions to PVSA.

Cruises to US possessions, Puerto Rico, Canadian vessels, journeys to distant ports and cruises to nowhere by a "non-coastwise qualified vessel".  Such as Celebrity.  No foreign stops allowed and must return to port of departure.  Miami to.international waters and a return to Miami with no passengers departing the ship at another US port.

 

However, while those are exceptions to the PVSA cruises to nowhere require US work visas for the crew as determined by CBP a few years ago. Also since they do not make port in a foreign country US labor and tax laws apply. Since this dramatically increases the cost and difficulty of doing such cruises the cruise lines have dropped them from their schedule.  It is unlikely that they would restart them now.

[nocl]

1 hour ago, Baron Barracuda said:

Thought CBP outlawed cruises to nowhere five years ago.

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Customs-says-cruises-to-nowhere-were-never-legal

They were not outlawed.  Such cruises were never against the law.  What was not legal was doing such cruises without having the crew have US work visas, US labor law followed, and appropriate US taxes paid.

[LGW59]

21 minutes ago, nocl said:

They were not outlawed.  Such cruises were never against the law.  What was not legal was doing such cruises without having the crew have US work visas, US labor law followed, and appropriate US taxes paid.

I will cry uncle...to put this nonsense to an end,  you are right, oh so right

[Hlitner]

So, this started off as a topic about the CDC's No Sail order.  My own prediction is that it will be extended until the end of Nov with the caveat that there could be further extensions?  Why?  From the CDC's perspective what has changed in the past month.  COVID is surging in many States (including FL) and several European cruise lines (Costa, MSC, Hurtigruten, and a couple of river lines) have had instances of COVID despite taking all kinds of extensive precautions.  

 

I also expect that when the CDC does finally allow cruises to resume there will be an extensive list of requirements that must be met by the cruise lines.  Implementing these requirements will likely take some time.  

 

Hank

[napoxoguk]

23 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Using that logic, a Russian nuclear submarine should feel free to surface in Chesapeake Bay, as it would still be in Russia, according to CBP, as long as it didn't land elsewhere on its way to the US.

As an aside - it's not exactly the same logic - first, Chesapeake Bay is not a very good example (I think it's one of "historic" bays that are considered the country's internal waters through historic conventions); and second, to qualify for innocent passage, submarines must travel on the surface. But yes, otherwise it would've been OK for a Russian submarine, nuclear or otherwise, to enter Chesapeake Bay under innocent passage clause, and it would still be considered Russian territory 🙂

[RICCruisers]

Again back on topic. The last extension of the No Sail Order came after a meeting with VP Pence. From what I have read, I believe the VP might be a little busy the next 10 days. Most likely it will be extended. 

[nocl]

5 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

So, this started off as a topic about the CDC's No Sail order.  My own prediction is that it will be extended until the end of Nov with the caveat that there could be further extensions?  Why?  From the CDC's perspective what has changed in the past month.  COVID is surging in many States (including FL) and several European cruise lines (Costa, MSC, Hurtigruten, and a couple of river lines) have had instances of COVID despite taking all kinds of extensive precautions.  

 

I also expect that when the CDC does finally allow cruises to resume there will be an extensive list of requirements that must be met by the cruise lines.  Implementing these requirements will likely take some time.  

 

Hank

Unfortunately as demonstrated by the reaction of the COVID task force the final decision is not up to the CDC.  Otherwise the restriction would have already been extended to March.

[Hlitner]

2 minutes ago, nocl said:

Unfortunately as demonstrated by the reaction of the COVID task force the final decision is not up to the CDC.  Otherwise the restriction would have already been extended to March.

Yeah, I understand there are politics involved not to mention a Covid Task Force.  But the ultimate decision is up to CDC's Director (Robert Redfield).  If Dr. Redfield had strong feelings he could extend the ban and the President would always have the ability to fire him and get another decision-maker.   Would any of this happen a few days before an election?  Boggles the mind 🙂

 

Hank

[ECCruise]

12 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

So, this started off as a topic about the CDC's No Sail order.  My own prediction is that it will be extended until the end of Nov with the caveat that there could be further extensions?  Why?  From the CDC's perspective what has changed in the past month.  COVID is surging in many States (including FL) and several European cruise lines (Costa, MSC, Hurtigruten, and a couple of river lines) have had instances of COVID despite taking all kinds of extensive precautions.  

 

I also expect that when the CDC does finally allow cruises to resume there will be an extensive list of requirements that must be met by the cruise lines.  Implementing these requirements will likely take some time.  

 

Hank

Some examples of those requirements that have been bandied about (mostly by CLIA and the NCL/RCCL consortium).

 

+ Much more advanced medical centers including provisions for ICU.

+ Provisions with ports to accept infected pax if needed.

+ Pre-screening of all pax and crew

+ Re-screening during sailing

+ Reconfiguration and enhancement of all air filtration systems

 

None of this is able to be done in a couple of weeks and I don't see notice of physical changes on the ships occurring now.