Mandatory vaccination

[Roger88]

10 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Keeping 'EVERYONE health' is an impossible goal and unreachable goal.  95% effectiveness is sufficient to achieve herd immunity if a sufficient number are vaccinated.

Those that are vaccinated have a 90% chance to avoid severe health damages if they fall ill with Covid. This is one of the main reasons why eldrely people have to be vaccinated. Its very important 

[RocketMan275]

21 minutes ago, sugcarol said:

Part of the inability to make appointments is that many people are on more than one list, some I know are registered on 5 different lists. They dont go back to take their name off if they manage to get an appointment that they actually will take. Each of the providers assume you will actually get an appointment with them so they keep you in the system, and tell new people that they cant put them on the list. People that do this are actually biting off their own foot, and it certainly doesnt help the others. Federal sends the vaccine and supplies and is up to the Governors in each state how to distribute the vaccine not the Federal.

Wife and I just received our first dose, pfizer.  Things were very well organized and the mandatory wait checking for allergic reaction was the most time consuming.  

Our area does things differently.  The local hospital is operating the only vaccination facility in this area.  You go to their website, fill out a form verifying your age and employment.  You cannot make your own appointment.  They call  you back later to make the appointment.

This works very well.  At least you don't have to spend hours looking for an appointment.  There is some flexibility in selecting an appointment when they call you.  

We were originally schedule for the first shot last Tuesday but weather forced us to miss that.  They called us this past Monday to see if we still wanted the shot.  We picked today.  

The second shot doesn't require an appointment in this area.  We were given a card and told that we could just show up as convenient three weeks from today.

[zerooveride]

3 hours ago, hallux said:

You DO realize that U-Albany isn't the only vaccination site in the state, right?

The next closest to me is Utica, I live near the Vermont/Mass border. Which is about 3 hours away. Any of the other local sites are for targeted groups only.

Edited February 25, 2021 by zerooveride

[hallux]

5 minutes ago, zerooveride said:

The next closest to me is Utica, I live near the Vermont/Mass border.

I was more commenting on your insistence that the Governor send more vaccines to U-Albany so you have an opportunity to get vaccinated there rather than spread them out to other locations.

[zerooveride]

2 minutes ago, hallux said:

I was more commenting on your insistence that the Governor send more vaccines to U-Albany so you have an opportunity to get vaccinated there rather than spread them out to other locations.

I know what you are saying, but when almost every other site in the state has had appointments open, then that is where my problem is. UAlbany hasn't had any in over three weeks, just ones if you get to catch someone cancelling. 

[JamieLogical]

16 minutes ago, zerooveride said:

I know what you are saying, but when almost every other site in the state has had appointments open, then that is where my problem is. UAlbany hasn't had any in over three weeks, just ones if you get to catch someone cancelling. 

 

Definitely Rochester, Buffalo, and Syracuse have had VERY limited supply as well. I have never seen appointments listed outright as Available in any of those locations, except on the 14th, when all sites were saying there were appointments available, but it was still impossible to get one anywhere.

 

You can track vaccine distribution in NYS here:

https://covid19vaccine.health.ny.gov/covid-19-vaccine-tracker

 

It doesn't look to me like the Albany area has received/administered fewer doses than most other counties based on population. Monroe County (where I live) had had 14.1% of the population receive first doses and Albany County has had 17.2%. And that 17.2% is well above the state average. So it doesn't look like Cuomo, or anyone else, is keeping Albany from receiving its fair share of doses.

Edited February 25, 2021 by JamieLogical

[zerooveride]

1 hour ago, JamieLogical said:

except on the 14th, when all sites were saying there were appointments available, but it was still impossible to get one anywhere.

 

Not every site had open appointments on the 14th. UAlbany and Buffalo did not open up any appointments. 

 

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/New-York-sign-up-for-vaccine-comorbidity-patients-15950269.php

[macandlucy]

4 hours ago, coffeebean said:

Dr. Fauci's misinformation about not needing to wear masks unless we were symptomatic early on in the pandemic will always be a stain on his integrity. I don't call it a "little white lie", I call it a bold face lie. He did come clean about that and gave us all an explanation as to why he was not truthful with the American people. I have to hand it to the man though for admitting he was wrong by misleading us with his directive. I still trust Dr. Fauci and it is because he was big enough to admit he was wrong. That stain that I spoke of has been fading for me.

I called it a little white lie because he had a positive goal with the lie -- to prevent the public from buying up all the masks that were available to buy, and keeping them from the very people who were most likely to come in contact with covid positive people -- healthcare providers. There are many people who think it's okay to lie "for a good reason", so he's not unusual in that way, but I just don't think it's a good idea for public officials. 

 

I saw Dr. Osterholm on tv the other day. They cut to a clip of someone on another channel talking about how now that both his elderly parents are vaccinated, he thinks it's okay for them to see their grandkids. The host asked Dr. Osterholm if he agrees and he said he did. He thought it would be okay for two vaccinated seniors to spend time with their non vaccinated family. I was very happy to hear that. 

 

https://www.mediaite.com/news/msnbc-disease-expert-says-brian-kilmeade-is-right-about-covid-19-its-nearly-time-to-move-on/

 

IMO, if people are told to get the vaccine, but once you do, nothing will change anyway -- you still need to wear masks and distance and avoid people and can't eat in restaurants or go to concerts, it's hard to see some of the practical value in the vaccine.  If we can't go back to normal and must keep things as they are with or without a vaccine, why risk a vaccine, which itself carries a tiny risk?

 

I also think that some public health officials are overly cautious with their predictions, to the point of being discouraging. It's possible, sure, to catch covid if you are vaccinated, but it's unlikely. It's also possible to get polio, measles, chicken pox, etc, once vaccinated, but that has not stopped us in the past; we were able to live with that small risk. I think, once vaccinated, we can live with this one, too. IMO.  

[RocketMan275]

3 minutes ago, macandlucy said:

 

I also think that some public health officials are overly cautious with their predictions, to the point of being discouraging. It's possible, sure, to catch covid if you are vaccinated, but it's unlikely. It's also possible to get polio, measles, chicken pox, etc, once vaccinated, but that has not stopped us in the past; we were able to live with that small risk. I think, once vaccinated, we can live with this one, too. IMO.  

You can sum up most of our CV protocols in this phrase: "In an over-abundance of caution...".  

[complawyer]

i fail to see why there appears to be such reluctance to getting the shots. if you arent vaccinated, there is a good chance you wont be able to board the ship anyway.

 

it's free, relatively painless, and it's like chicken soup... it may not be the cure,but it couldn't hurt..the old cliche... an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure

[HMR74]

On 2/19/2021 at 8:12 AM, Stick93 said:

How about - don’t refund money of people who want to cruise but couldn’t because they cancelled - wait they did that already! 
I think they may want to encourage people to come back - keeping money doesn’t help them in the future. 

 

the real issue is many people who get vaccinated, and are of poor health will be told not to get on cruise ships. The cruise population has a very large population of older and obese people (not all but too many). Older people, obese and diabetic people have been hurt disproportionately over younger and healthy people (who have also been hurt but at a much smaller percentage). If you take the high risk and  scared people out of cruises and you may need the unvaccinated to get $$$ and make the share holders happy. 
 

on a side point the vaccines will be available for most people hopefully by the summer. Some countries even later. Then we will start the boosters for different strains - when will the cruising take place for those who are vaccinated after the 1st shot or after all the boosters. Also are they making the flu shot mandatory??
 

Cruising will not be happening for a while - possibly not until 2022. Nothing has changed in a year except the US has allowed ships back to their ports so people can see them. Othen that we aren’t close to starting up again so vaccines mean nothing today. 
 

 

 

There are a number of questions , however if you look at the CDC gathered information, link below) the deaths "involving"  covid are accompanied on average by 3.8 co-morbitities and obesity  and that's severe obesity, is a comparatively small factor. Look at the list of the big factors in this link:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

 

I am no scientist or Doctor,  however I would think someone with 4 of those comorbitities is in deep trouble anyway. But the point is those folks should not be going on cruises anyway. When this covid started the cruise companies asked people 70 and over to have a recent doctors not saying they were good to travel. Seems like thats a good idea.

 

They cannot eliminate risk but the 20/80 rule probably applies--20% of the effort will eliminate 80% of the risk

 

I am between the two shots now and my wife has completed hers.  We want to go on a cruise this thanksgiving with kids and grandkids however now I am looking to book next years and then cancel this years. I believe the vaccine for the kids  esp the under 10 is a higher risk than is acceptable because how do you deal with an unquantified risk?

 

Yesterday I was reading that some high level govt person said that even if grandparents get the shots, they should not see the grandkids.

 

Well, what the heck? Is the vaccine not as effective as they are saying?

 

Furthermore, if everybody on board has had a shot which is supposedly highly effective, then why wear masks and have social distancing?

 

One of lifes precautions is when someone coughs or sneezes I go the other way. At some point common sense needs to return, which is a balance of risks and rewards of enjoying life.

[JamieLogical]

32 minutes ago, zerooveride said:

 

Not every site had open appointments on the 14th. UAlbany and Buffalo did not open up any appointments. 

 

https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/New-York-sign-up-for-vaccine-comorbidity-patients-15950269.php

 

Definitely untrue. At 8:00 am I was in a queue for a vaccine appointment at Buffalo and waited out the 35 minutes before I was informed there were no appointments available. But the site definitely said there were. It was well after my queue expired that they finally updated to say no vaccines available.

[HMR74]

On 2/19/2021 at 9:54 AM, macandlucy said:

Sincere (genuine, curiosity based 🙂question for you: If *you* are vaccinated, do you believe you have reasonable cause to worry about a carrier? 

Yes, it's true the carrier can spread covid, which you could theoretically breathe in, but since you are vaccinated, your immune system will now (90% plus chance) recognize the covid virus and deal with it so you don't get sick.  

(And even with vaccines, we'll still have some protocols in place, so in fairness, you'd have to not follow them to even be in a situation where you would allow yourself to get infected, AND you'd have to be the unlucky person who does all this with the person who somehow bypasses the covid tests with a false negative, but side issue).

 

Are you thinking here more about the lower probability that you will be in the 10% group, AND unlucky enough to encounter the false negative person on the ship AND also not practice your own respiratory/hand hygiene and ignore distancing rules, etc. It's possible to be that unlucky, but how possible? To my mind, it seems like it would be hard to catch covid anywhere where all of these requirements are met and all rules are followed. 

assuming we actually do go on a cruise, and I am fully vaccinated (in between shots right now) I am still going to be taking my vitamins that help immune system, and when on any trip take Ivermectin and HCQ with, just like I always take CIPRO with.

 

I wonder if they went back to the cruises last year that had people with severe problems, did they have comorbidities.

An also whats happened to the dreaded novo virus. We managed around that nicely. We can manage around this probably with some street smarts.

[JamieLogical]

4 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

 

Yesterday I was reading that some high level govt person said that even if grandparents get the shots, they should not see the grandkids.

 

Well, what the heck? Is the vaccine not as effective as they are saying?

 

I saw Dr. Fauci on CNN yesterday morning. He was clearly reluctant to get ahead of CDC guidance, so he hedged a little on whether or not vaccinated grandparents could visit unvaccinated grandkids or whether vaccinated people from multiple households could get together. It was obvious to me that he personally felt that would be okay, but he didn't want to step on any toes by providing a "soundbite" before the CDC released official guidance.

[zerooveride]

So I got an update, I have an appointment in Utica on the 7th. I've been trying all day to get something in Albany (like ever since JamieLogical posted the tip) and nothing. My wife tries for like 15 minutes and she gets me one on March 8th at UAlbany. So I will call tomorrow and cancel the 7th and wait the extra day so I don't have to drive all that way.

 

Thanks JamieLogical, you saved me 6 hours of my life!

[JamieLogical]

12 minutes ago, zerooveride said:

So I got an update, I have an appointment in Utica on the 7th. I've been trying all day to get something in Albany (like ever since JamieLogical posted the tip) and nothing. My wife tries for like 15 minutes and she gets me one on March 8th at UAlbany. So I will call tomorrow and cancel the 7th and wait the extra day so I don't have to drive all that way.

 

Thanks JamieLogical, you saved me 6 hours of my life!

 

So happy to hear you got an appointment!!!

[macandlucy]

29 minutes ago, HMR74 said:

assuming we actually do go on a cruise, and I am fully vaccinated (in between shots right now) I am still going to be taking my vitamins that help immune system, and when on any trip take Ivermectin and HCQ with, just like I always take CIPRO with.

 

I wonder if they went back to the cruises last year that had people with severe problems, did they have comorbidities.

An also whats happened to the dreaded novo virus. We managed around that nicely. We can manage around this probably with some street smarts.

Sounds like a prudent plan :)

 

That's a good question -- I bet that data is out there if anyone wants to look for it. I would guess the same comorbidities would have been a factor then as they are now.

[AKR2011]

1 hour ago, zerooveride said:

So I got an update, I have an appointment in Utica on the 7th. I've been trying all day to get something in Albany (like ever since JamieLogical posted the tip) and nothing. My wife tries for like 15 minutes and she gets me one on March 8th at UAlbany. So I will call tomorrow and cancel the 7th and wait the extra day so I don't have to drive all that way.

 

Thanks JamieLogical, you saved me 6 hours of my life!

Congratulations! If you look at the data across the state, the Hudson Valley has the least percentage of vaccinations and the highest infection rate outside of NYC. I work in mental health for a large nonprofit, so I was lucky enough to go early. I'm all done with both my doses, but my clients have been eligible for over a month, and there is nothing available for them. No huge sites around here, and pharmacies won't touch anyone under 60 even if they are eligible. Every time I try finding appointments I come up empty. I'm hoping things get better soon with more doses coming 🤞

[zerooveride]

16 minutes ago, AKR2011 said:

Congratulations! If you look at the data across the state, the Hudson Valley has the least percentage of vaccinations and the highest infection rate outside of NYC. I work in mental health for a large nonprofit, so I was lucky enough to go early. I'm all done with both my doses, but my clients have been eligible for over a month, and there is nothing available for them. No huge sites around here, and pharmacies won't touch anyone under 60 even if they are eligible. Every time I try finding appointments I come up empty. I'm hoping things get better soon with more doses coming 🤞

Yeah, I know. We just sold our old house down in Orange County. My father-in-law wants to get the shot, but only Westchester County Center is available and he is afraid to leave the house. He hasn't left the house except for 2-3 occasions since last March.

[Stick93]

5 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I saw Dr. Fauci on CNN yesterday morning. He was clearly reluctant to get ahead of CDC guidance, so he hedged a little on whether or not vaccinated grandparents could visit unvaccinated grandkids or whether vaccinated people from multiple households could get together. It was obvious to me that he personally felt that would be okay, but he didn't want to step on any toes by providing a "soundbite" before the CDC released official guidance.

Sorry there is nothing obvious with dr fauci - he is a political figure and says whatever they tell him. 
he has flip flopped more than a presidential candidate. 

[Trimone]

14 hours ago, milolii said:

Thanks for the information. Does this allow for vaccination documentation?   

Tests, vaccination like any documents now you put the test code in also vaccine code 

[JamieLogical]

7 hours ago, Stick93 said:

Sorry there is nothing obvious with dr fauci - he is a political figure and says whatever they tell him. 
he has flip flopped more than a presidential candidate. 

 

Did you actually watch the interview I am talking about? Certainly my post was my interpretation of his demeanor and body language. But if you haven't watched it, then I don't see how you can say my interpretation was just wrong.

[RocketMan275]

15 hours ago, HMR74 said:

Yesterday I was reading that some high level govt person said that even if grandparents get the shots, they should not see the grandkids.

 

Well, what the heck? Is the vaccine not as effective as they are saying?

 

Furthermore, if everybody on board has had a shot which is supposedly highly effective, then why wear masks and have social distancing?

Those high level government people are focused on minimizing infections, illness, hospital admissions, and deaths.  They will always recommend the maximum precautions possible.

Then there is this:  if they were to say no precautions after vaccination, how would that be enforce.  How many would go to their local walmart and announce they did not have to wear a mask because they had been vaccinated. It's very much like the speed limit restrictions enacted after the oil embargos in the seventies.  It was well known that enforcing a higher tire inflation was orders of magnitude more effective in increasing fuel mileage.  No one could figure out how that could be enforced so they went with speed reduction. 

[RocketMan275]

15 hours ago, HMR74 said:

I wonder if they went back to the cruises last year that had people with severe problems, did they have comorbidities.

Yes, they did.  The CLIA recommended limiting cruises to those below a certain age and who did not present any comorbidities.  This board went absolutely crazy insisting those recommendations were against the laws forbidding discrimination.  Note:  one can discriminate when one can show a cause and effect relationship.  

[HMR74]

3 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Yes, they did.  The CLIA recommended limiting cruises to those below a certain age and who did not present any comorbidities.  This board went absolutely crazy insisting those recommendations were against the laws forbidding discrimination.  Note:  one can discriminate when one can show a cause and effect relationship.  

 

I think you may have missed my point.

 

IMHO, people should be reasonably healthy otherwise they should  be denied boarding. The Cruise lines already had that before covid where upon check in if you say coughed too much you could be denied boarding. Then early in covid at least Celebrity sent an e mail saying we, people 70 or over,  would have to have our Doctor fill out a form just prior to trip saying we were in good overall health.

I think thats a good idea permanently and for just about everyone.

 

Not just for transmittable diseases or viruses, but I bet a couple thousand people on board do not want to be diverted if someone already having several active  co morbidities and needed higher skilled medical attention was allowed on board. Not to mention diversion of cruise or a helicopter is an expensive proposition.

 

Look, we know "stuff" happens, but again, if the cruise lines can continue to eliminate a large chunk of the risk for everybody with a minimum amount of effort on everybody's part, it works for everybody. But if we and they are looking for and expecting perfection, that's not going to happen.

 

What I am saying is 80% of the benefit can be gained with 20% of the effort. And not just in general shut out people from cruising. Somewhere common sense needs to be brought into the process and not everybody will be perfectly happy.