4-2-2021 CDC has issued new guidance

[smokeybandit]

1 hour ago, harkinmr said:

Governor Abbott may have rescinded the mask mandate and other protocols/restrictions, but it would appear that many municipalities, businesses and residents are ignoring his efforts and continuing to mask and exercise other precautions, which is likely why there has been no "significant" rise in cases.  Says more about the intelligence of the residents (other than the ones that went to the Rangers opener and disregarded the team's stated protocols concerning wearing masks) than the Governor.  

 

What about Michigan that has kept severe restrictions state-wide and has seen its cases skyrocket?

 

People put way too much stock in masks actually stopping anything.

[HMR74]

17 hours ago, rcclmiami said:

First, I love cruising and have over 30 cruises since 1990. But let’s be honest. The cruise lines turn their back on the U.S. by not registering ships or hiring more Americans. Then they expect to be treated like airlines who buy Boeing planes and hire Americans to fly and maintain them. Cruise lines “try” to be U.S. friendly by investing in ports. When they start paying their share of taxes, then they should be treated fairly. I am glad the got no bailout money. 

Smokeybandit added:

1) Cruise lines didn't expect bailout money

2) Airlines do a good job of avoiding paying taxes

 

-------------------------

companies overall do not pay much in federal income taxes.

200-300 billion a year. there are a large number of tax gimmicks out there but also accounting rules allow companies to adjust their income higher by various methods so they report higher income for financial reporting purposes than tax purposes.  It is all in financial statements if one was to read them. The new tax hike for companies will add ~100 billion to tax revenues; sounds like a lot, but the annual cash flow deficit for the US  is 2.5 trillion and climbing fast before covid and most of that deficit is due to soc sec, Medicare and Medicaid payments. Covid stimulus including the recent  check for 1200pp has added just this year so far to 2.5 trillion more.

 

The govt says the way out of the deficits is to grow the economy--if so, they need to find a way to open the economy up, including cruising,  hotels, restaurants, etc before its too late. eg, there are still 18 million on unemployment comp, 16 million more than pre covid. which is a real kick in the rear to those 16 million.

 

My first boss told me that there is no such thing as a free lunch--pretty realistic and easy to remember.

 

So, this tax and domicile issue is more optics than reality.

 

BTW: in order to balance the cash flow budget, we have to double taxes revenues. Since we cannot burden the middle class much more, most of the tax increase would be borne by high income people, and even though they earn a lot, thats not nearly enough to handle the shortfall.

 

So if they are punishing the cruise liens then they better go back and look for a resolution to fixing the bigger issue.

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by HMR74

[harkinmr]

2 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

 

What about Michigan that has kept severe restrictions state-wide and has seen its cases skyrocket?

 

People put way too much stock in masks actually stopping anything.

Actually, that is incorrect.  The Governor of Michigan lost her emergency powers with respect to COVID back in February, along with her ability to continue mandates.  The surge in Michigan followed the lifting of mandates and has been driven largely by those not complying with safety protocols, including young people in sports activities.  This has nothing to do with the effectiveness of masks and social distancing.  

[smokeybandit]

You can't have it both ways.

 

But that's been a convenient political angle. If cases go up, blame the people. If cases go down, credit the rules.

[harkinmr]

2 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

You can't have it both ways.

 

But that's been a convenient political angle. If cases go up, blame the people. If cases go down, credit the rules.

And you go in circles, tying yourself in knots trying to prove that protocols don't work, whether cases are going up or down.  And this shouldn't be about politics, but it's what you (and others) have turned it into.  Have a nice day...

[HMR74]

5 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Actually, that is incorrect.  The Governor of Michigan lost her emergency powers with respect to COVID back in February, along with her ability to continue mandates.  The surge in Michigan followed the lifting of mandates and has been driven largely by those not complying with safety protocols, including young people in sports activities.  This has nothing to do with the effectiveness of masks and social distancing.  

in retrospect, the 15 days to slow the spread was bad policy. (Monday morning quarterbacking is a slam dunk albeit it mixed metaphors).

 

Keeping it simple, we should have gone way out of our way to protect seniors and those with compromised immune systems. And make certain that people in general were taking Vitamin D, safe and proven to keep viruses to minimum consequences. That way we would have gotten to herd immunity faster.

 

And on masks, most of the masks were not good enough to begin with and worn improperly and for too long to be effective. Like a patch for a tire leaking air, a mask has to cut off those outside  coughs and sneezes completely, without causing other health issues. That's been denied but logically its real.

[BecciBoo]

2 hours ago, harkinmr said:

Governor Abbott may have rescinded the mask mandate and other protocols/restrictions, but it would appear that many municipalities, businesses and residents are ignoring his efforts and continuing to mask and exercise other precautions, which is likely why there has been no "significant" rise in cases.  Says more about the intelligence of the residents (other than the ones that went to the Rangers opener and disregarded the team's stated protocols concerning wearing masks) than the Governor.  

That's not what the news guys predicted at all...they fully expected to gloat over a spike or complete catastrophe as they put it. I still mask up at any stores who require it, but some do not, so I don't as well, I'm vaccinated and I don't have the disease, I see no reason to do it other than I want to comply so I can go there.  That's how everyone I know in Texas thinks right now.  I was born and bred and lived there until 2019.  I am now in Arkansas.  Same goes for this state.  Governor has laxed the rules a bit giving folks some breathing room.  Governor Abbott is a personal hero of mine.  And BTW intelligence is highly subjectable...according to one's opinions about others. I consider myself pretty intelligent. After all someone we all know seemed to consider everyone in Texas a Neanderthal.  And I consider him a More on. Highly dubious since many in the country are moving there or or there already.  One reason we left...they're ruining our state.

[BecciBoo]

40 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

And you go in circles, tying yourself in knots trying to prove that protocols don't work, whether cases are going up or down.  And this shouldn't be about politics, but it's what you (and others) have turned it into.  Have a nice day...

Everything is about politics these days, and after all, your responses were just as politically charged as his, so you are one of the "You(and others)" as well.  That thumb is pointed back at ya.  Have a nice life.

[orville99]

1 hour ago, harkinmr said:

Actually, that is incorrect.  The Governor of Michigan lost her emergency powers with respect to COVID back in February, along with her ability to continue mandates.  The surge in Michigan followed the lifting of mandates and has been driven largely by those not complying with safety protocols, including young people in sports activities.  This has nothing to do with the effectiveness of masks and social distancing.  

The first chart is Michigan, and the second one is Texas. 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by orville99

[harkinmr]

15 minutes ago, BecciBoo said:

That's not what the news guys predicted at all...they fully expected to gloat over a spike or complete catastrophe as they put it. I still mask up at any stores who require it, but some do not, so I don't as well, I'm vaccinated and I don't have the disease, I see no reason to do it other than I want to comply so I can go there.  That's how everyone I know in Texas thinks right now.  I was born and bred and lived there until 2019.  I am now in Arkansas.  Same goes for this state.  Governor has laxed the rules a bit giving folks some breathing room.  Governor Abbott is a personal hero of mine.  And BTW intelligence is highly subjectable...according to one's opinions about others. I consider myself pretty intelligent. After all someone we all know seemed to consider everyone in Texas a Neanderthal.  And I consider him a More on. Highly dubious since many in the country are moving there or or there already.  One reason we left...they're ruining our state.

Ummm.  You are proving my point.  I said that many residents stayed with the protocols regardless of the mandates being lifted and the state reopened 100%.  And the word is "subjective", not "subjectable".   You are more than welcome to your opinion, just as others are.  Not going to discuss politics with you as that is against CC rules.  Which you seem to ignore...

[harkinmr]

6 minutes ago, orville99 said:

The first chart is Michigan, and the second one is Texas. 

 

And the first chart proves my point on Michigan.

[ONECRUISER]

4 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

Not guilty.

I have a 401K account and the taxes are deferred. This means I pay taxes on the full amount as its withdrawn. The benefit is that it is taxed at a lower rate as most people's income is less when they retire. 

Yeah, Used $10K my 401K as Loan down payment for Home, paid back loan with deductions from my Federal Employee paychecks. No Taxes due at time of loan...

[not-enough-cruising]

19 hours ago, rcclmiami said:

First, I love cruising and have over 30 cruises since 1990. But let’s be honest. The cruise lines turn their back on the U.S. by not registering ships or hiring more Americans. Then they expect to be treated like airlines who buy Boeing planes and hire Americans to fly and maintain them. Cruise lines “try” to be U.S. friendly by investing in ports. When they start paying their share of taxes, then they should be treated fairly. I am glad the got no bailout money. 

Bailout money has zero to do with anything (they never asked to be a part of a stimulus package) 

 

The list of Americans willing to work on a cruise ship wouldn’t fill a 3X5 index card, invalid argument there 

 

The cruising you have “loved since 1990” would be unrecognizable if the ships were flagged here. 
 

The notion that what is happening has anything to to with taxes, employment laws, or flag states is just ludicrous. 

[HMR74]

59 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

And the first chart proves my point on Michigan.

just an observation. The cases dropped as winter set in and now increasing as spring arrives. Might that be due to cold weather and people staying at home and not, say, going boating. Or, people left to go south for the winter.  Remember these are all Gov exec orders not law.

 

 

and now, I will present something else to chew on. It is almost as if he hopes cases rise in TX probably because of his credibility. And he disagrees with CDC chief on a big issue the impending doom she referred to in discussing cruise lines.

 

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/dr-fauci-cant-explain-why-texas-covid-cases-keep-dropping-despite-reopening

 

And it is impossible to keep politics out of it because the issue is driven by extreme  political involvement.

 

for example, the WHO now agrees that the use of Ivermectin is 80%effective , virtually zero side effects and its on a long term basis of use. Yet, WHO recommends against it in favor of a vaccine that's said to be 95% effective and has unknown short, intermediate and long term side effects, because its EUA, It's actually still in early stages of trials which normally go for 2-5 years.

 

Why do we have a void of those in authority testing the side effects issue and the media goes along with it?

 

HCQ is probably 75% effective and it too has very little in side effects and both Ivermectin and HCQ have been in use for 60 years each with no known serious side effects.

Why did the WHO FDA and CDC not advise people to take Vitamin D C and Zinc precautionary, but the stats on everything in this paragraph are very good.

And now its coming out that it is very positive on health and immune system to be exposed to sunlight on regular basis. Its been known all along.

So excuse me for getting a bit upset/ excited about this because the specialists could have done much better.

 

And we would not have this thread if we did not have covid .

Edited April 6, 2021 by HMR74

[Iamcruzin]

9 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

While I appreciate your technical knowledge and explanation on why we in the United States are in a different situation than other parts of the world, I feel those technicalities / regulations / code / law could be relaxed a bit to catch up with the 21st Century to compete in a global cruising industry.

 

Other countries are offering cruises to nowhere free of the archaic obstacles in place here, whether it is the CBP or other regulations.  The negative economic impact on our US port cities these policies demonstrate is not negligible. 

 

 

Could be worse. We could be Canada. They practically lowered the iron curtain.   

[Midwestgal]

How would it work once back from a cruise since you need a negative Covid test to come back into the us? 
I wonder how that will be handled, done on the ship? 

[AmazedByCruising]

9 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The wages and working conditions of the crew are an agreement between the crew and the Captain (personally, acting as the ship owner's representative), and therefore enacted under the laws of the flag state.  As such, they are "internal operations" of the ship.  A beer sold on the ship is "commerce" that is taking place inside the territorial waters of the port state, and therefore subject to taxation and any other limitations placed on all other commerce within that port state.  Jurisdictional overlap is a very complex concept of law, and one that admiralty lawyers work to define every day.  You could spend a career learning admiralty law, and still not understand all aspects of it.  Doesn't the EU charge VAT on purchases on Bahamian ships in EU ports?  (I know there are exceptions and limitations, and up to each EU member as to whether or not they do it, but it is completely legal under EU law).

 

Not sure about Bahamian ships but I remember Spain imposed a tax whereas Portugal didn't. It's not an EU tax. It's complicated 🙂 Thanks again for your anwer!

 

 

[Iamcruzin]

5 hours ago, grandgeezer said:

Not guilty.

I have a 401K account and the taxes are deferred. This means I pay taxes on the full amount as its withdrawn. The benefit is that it is taxed at a lower rate as most people's income is less when they retire. 

I will add that with the new Tax Law maximum deduction for married couples my mortgage interest as well as my property taxes are no longer deductible on my tax return. 

[Missusdubbya]

 

1 hour ago, BecciBoo said:

 And BTW intelligence is highly subjectable...according to one's opinions about others. I consider myself pretty intelligent. After all someone we all know seemed to consider everyone in Texas a Neanderthal.  And I consider him a More on.

Good grief - and irony. 

[livingonthebeach]

A report by Bloomberg today claims the CDC says cruises by mid summer possible after Carnival threaten to take their ships abroad.  Cruise stocks rallied today. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-06/carnival-threatens-to-move-ships-abroad-amid-cdc-obstacles

[Stallion]

Or maybe that's in response to the CDC's new recommendations last week on travel for vaccinated travelers and has no relation to an alleged "threat". The focus is becoming clear that cruising can safely resume in the near future if all passengers and crew are fully vaccinated. These cruiselines aren't going to threaten their way out of that especially since the vast majority of cruisers want their fellow passengers to be vaccinated

[livingonthebeach]

4 minutes ago, Stallion said:

Or maybe that's in response to the CDC's new recommendations last week on travel for vaccinated travelers and has no relation to an alleged "threat". The focus is becoming clear that cruising can safely resume in the near future if all passengers and crew are fully vaccinated. These cruiselines aren't going to threaten their way out of that especially since the vast majority of cruisers want their fellow passengers to be vaccinated

 

That very well could have something to do with it.  The CDC has also been pressured by many lawmakers and businesses to reopen.  At any rate, this is positive news, if Bloomberg got it right. 

[livingonthebeach]

Looks like some mask restrictions have been loosened at Disney --

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/04/06/walt-disney-world-loosens-policy-on-mask-wearing/?sh=390c88305f77

[harkinmr]

48 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

Looks like some mask restrictions have been loosened at Disney --

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/04/06/walt-disney-world-loosens-policy-on-mask-wearing/?sh=390c88305f77

Not all that significant really:

 

"Walt Disney World guests will now be able to temporarily remove their face masks while taking an outdoor photo starting April 8, but they must remain stationary and physically distanced from others while doing so, Disney announced on the resort’s website Tuesday."

[livingonthebeach]

30 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Not all that significant really:

 

"Walt Disney World guests will now be able to temporarily remove their face masks while taking an outdoor photo starting April 8, but they must remain stationary and physically distanced from others while doing so, Disney announced on the resort’s website Tuesday."

 

A small baby step but a step forward nonetheless.