Florida resident here a little confused over C19 protocol.

[Pratique]

2 minutes ago, jrapps said:

I don't want to dip into the politics of it, but I think the lines would rather sail now, get fined, refuse to pay, and put the ball in the state's court to initiate the lawsuit. If they sue now, by the time it is resolved will be months/years from now. If they sue now, it's big headline news. If the state sues them years from now, it's a small story.

If the cruise lines get fined, who is going to make that info public? Probably not the cruise lines, at least not now. So either it flies under the radar or the state makes noise about it.

[jrapps]

Just now, Pratique said:

If the cruise lines get fined, who is going to make that info public? Probably not the cruise lines, at least not now. So either it flies under the radar or the state makes noise about it.

I assume that the state will make big headlines of it in the short term. Down the road, it will all get settled very quietly. That is why I think lines like Celebrity are OK ignoring the law today. They are playing a long game here. 

 

We won't know if it was a smart move for years (if we EVER know)

[Pratique]

1 minute ago, jrapps said:

I assume that the state will make big headlines of it in the short term. Down the road, it will all get settled very quietly. That is why I think lines like Celebrity are OK ignoring the law today. They are playing a long game here. 

 

We won't know if it was a smart move for years (if we EVER know)

Very short term? I think the public will lose interest quickly, if they care at all. Unless ignoring the law triggers the legislature to pass another more restrictive law in response.

[Babr]

1 hour ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

I want to cruise. I recognize that everyone else does too and there is alot of middleground that can be done to acheieve this. I also understand that my point of view is not the be all and end all of the cruising world. Having said this, I'll cruise on a fully vaccinated ship or non vaccinated ship, or even a ship with both... as long as it is mask free. I will NOT cruise with a mask requirement and I will not show proof of a vaccine in order to do so.  I will not be segregated from others and I will not accept that others will be segrated from me. The days of the  'colored' drinking fountains will never return in my life. I will not allow it. Those were terribly bad days of our times and to start them again with vax and non vaxed classes of people is not my cup of tea. I honestly could not enjoy myself on a cruise seeing this or being a part of it. If this occurs, I'll quietly cancel my cruises and move on and away from RCL,  perhaps even cruising. 

I’m trying to understand your point of view, but I think you are conflating two very different things. The only thing they have in common is segregation.

 

The kind of segregation you object to - we all object to - was based on racism which denied people basic civil rights and human dignity.

 

The kind of segregation imposed by Covid is a temporary restriction applied to the unvaccinated until the pandemic is safely under control. The restrictions can easily be removed by getting the shot, which is free and readily available. It is a choice. No one is taking away your choice, but people have to be willing to accept the consequences of that choice.

 

So I don’t see the two as the same. That is why I think your objections are unwarranted.

[100viper]

3 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Possibly, but that goes against the spirit of the law. The whole point is to avoid creating two classes of people. Haves and have nots, so to speak

Law or not, in this current pandemic that is inevitable. 

[Darkingnj]

5 hours ago, Ravbo said:

Easy solution.

ALL passengers undergo testing and other protocols HOWEVER if you voluntarily submit proof of vaccination you are

•  not required to undergo testing or other protocols.
• Issued a colored bracelet to be worn throughout cruise to assist crew in identifying who is not required to wear masks or other protocols.

Instead of a bracelet how about the sea pass card?  How would you police who is supposed to be wearing the bracelet?  Now, the sea pass card would be the way to go...lol... that's worn and used throughout the day...lol.  How about green for vaccinated and red for unvaccinated??? LOL.

 

[John&LaLa]

1 minute ago, 100viper said:

Law or not, in this current pandemic that is inevitable. 

 

Not seeing it here. Businesses are accepting the honor system

[John&LaLa]

1 minute ago, Darkingnj said:

Instead of a bracelet how about the sea pass card?  How would you police who is supposed to be wearing the bracelet?  Now, the sea pass card would be the way to go...lol... that's worn and used throughout the day...lol.  How about green for vaccinated and red for unvaccinated??? LOL.

 

 

All they need to do is include vaccinated as part of the programming in the card. They scan your card when you enter Theater to verify you have a reservation.  

[100viper]

1 minute ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Not seeing it here. Businesses are accepting the honor system

Yes, because those businesses are far smaller than RC. You can’t really compare the two. 
 

This is why I’m not allowing myself to get all upset over the lack of vaccination requirements. I’m fully expecting Royal to impose some sort of protocols for those that are vaccinated and those who are not. 

[Darkingnj]

1 minute ago, John&LaLa said:

 

All they need to do is include vaccinated as part of the programming in the card. They scan your card when you enter Theater to verify you have a reservation.  

Good point, but was the original poster's suggestion of the bracelet for the purpose of crew and/or other passengers?

[John&LaLa]

2 minutes ago, 100viper said:

Yes, because those businesses are far smaller than RC. You can’t really compare the two. 
 

This is why I’m not allowing myself to get all upset over the lack of vaccination requirements. I’m fully expecting Royal to impose some sort of protocols for those that are vaccinated and those who are not. 

 

Protocols yes, I just don't see them issuing you a Scarlett letter

[Babr]

3 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Possibly, but that goes against the spirit of the law. The whole point is to avoid creating two classes of people. Haves and have nots, so to speak

“Have” and “Have not” is a social construct based on wealth. I don’t think we have any laws that address that except the ones that allow for equal opportunity in education and employment.

[Shorewalk Holmes]

2 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

The days of the  'colored' drinking fountains will never return in my life. I will not allow it. Those were terribly bad days of our times and to start them again with vax and non vaxed classes of people is not my cup of tea.

 

Skin color isn't harmful to others.

 

Refusing vaccination (without other protection) spreads covid and causes vulnerable people to die.

 

Private businesses should be allowed to try to prevent infection and death. 

 

Nothing immoral about that.

 

But I agree with you that refusing vaccination isn't the same as having insufficient cruise points.  Many people are unduly afraid of the vaccine due to misinformation.  We should have some compassion for them.  Maybe try incentives before bracelets.

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Shorewalk Holmes

[harkinmr]

10 minutes ago, Babr said:

“Have” and “Have not” is a social construct based on wealth. I don’t think we have any laws that address that except the ones that allow for equal opportunity in education and employment.

I think the Internal Revenue Service would tend to agree with you. 😉

[Goodtime Cruizin]

14 minutes ago, Shorewalk Holmes said:

 

Skin color isn't harmful to others.

 

Refusing vaccination (without other protection) spreads covid and causes vulnerable people to die.

 

Private businesses should be allowed to try to prevent infection and death. 

 

Nothing immoral about that.

 

But I agree with you that refusing vaccination isn't the same as having insufficient cruise points.  Many people are unduly afraid of the vaccine due to misinformation.  We should have some compassion for them.  Maybe try incentives before bracelets.

 

 

Neither are unvaccinated people if you have been vaccinated. Either you believe in the science that we've been told that the vaccine is healthy and proper, correct & necessary for our systems to fight covid or you don't. If you subscribe to seperation & segregation into two classes of people, you simply do not believe in the vaccine. But you rather accepted it and are hoping like hell all will be good long term. And please don't tell me there is any other reasoning.  Some people have simply opted to not take that risk. For some it isn't misinformation but rather the information itself that was presented and they don't believe it is right for them or their family. 

 

Me personally, I believe it was the right thing for me to do. I feel comfortable around others. All others. I wish you would too. I wish everyone would as well. 

[Starry Eyes]

1 hour ago, forgotmyCCname said:

How is Celebrity getting away with requiring proof of vaccine?

Here’s my guess…only a guess…IANAL:  The cruise contract (carefully written by real lawyers) will state that passengers over 12 must be vaccinated and carry proof of vaccination aboard.  There may be an option to voluntarily file that proof with the cruiseline before the cruise, if and only if the passenger wishes to do so.  Passengers are reminded precruise of the vacation requirement and are reminded to bring documentation.  At the terminal passengers are allowed to board without being asked for proof.  As soon as the ship is deemed to be in out of Florida jurisdiction for fines, proof of vaccination is then requested from all who have not yet provided it. Anyone not providing such proof is in violation of the cruise contract, subject Captain’s decisions (if lost paperwork perhaps allowed to contact home to obtain needed proof; if unvaccinated perhaps confined to cabin&removed from ship at first port;etc). That should avoid fines. PR issues may be a concern if people are put off ship at foreign port for lack of vaccination documentation, though it would be their own failure to provide such documentation.

[harkinmr]

10 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Neither are unvaccinated people if you have been vaccinated. Either you believe in the science that we've been told that the vaccine is healthy and proper, correct & necessary for our systems to fight covid or you don't. If you subscribe to seperation & segregation into two classes of people, you simply do not believe in the vaccine. But you rather accepted it and are hoping like hell all will be good long term. And please don't tell me there is any other reasoning.  Some people have simply opted to not take that risk. For some it isn't misinformation but rather the information itself that was presented and they don't believe it is right for them or their family. 

 

Me personally, I believe it was the right thing for me to do. I feel comfortable around others. All others. I wish you would too. I wish everyone would as well. 

What a bunch of nonsense.  "Separation and segregation" have absolutely nothing to do with taking or believing in the vaccine.  And then, instead of offering people the opportunity to respond to your challenge, you completely dismiss there being "any other reasoning" behind taking it.  It has been repeatedly said in this thread, as well as many others, what the "reasoning" is for people who want to sail on fully vaccinated cruises.  Unfortunately, others are not listening and keep repeating back a worn out question about relying on the vaccine.  Around and around in circles.

Edited June 7, 2021 by harkinmr

[sugcarol]

When United airlines flies to Hawaii, the requirements  to fly there  are VERY strict. The airlines put on the paper bracelet like you get in the hospitals, after you have been prescreened before you even get on the flight. You still have to do the Safe Travels requirement but instead of standing in line when you land in Hawaii to verify, your bracelet lets you bypass that.. I would think the same procedure could be done for cruises.

[MommaBear55]

4 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

 

But how do you prove vaccination status without running afoul of the FL law

You volunteer it, you are not asked. If you don't want to volunteer it, you can go along with the others

[MommaBear55]

2 hours ago, CI66774 said:

 

Perhaps but Florida has a monopoly on the best ports to the Caribbean, etc

Puerto Rico is closer to Caribbean ports. Unless I cruise out of NY, I have to fly to a port anyway. I realize that's not the case for many people here.

[Shorewalk Holmes]

24 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

Me personally, I believe it was the right thing for me to do. I feel comfortable around others. All others. I wish you would too. I wish everyone would as well. 

 

Agree. After being vaccinated, I feel comfortable around people of any vaccine persuasion as long as they aren't rude.

 

But someone refusing vaccination can spread disease to other unvaccinated people, keeping the virus alive in low-vax pockets and killing vulnerable people. 

 

If cruise lines want to try to reduce virus spread by not gathering together thousands of unvaccinated people, I think it's a shame that they can't do that in Florida.  

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Shorewalk Holmes

[John&LaLa]

1 hour ago, Darkingnj said:

Good point, but was the original poster's suggestion of the bracelet for the purpose of crew and/or other passengers?

 

Bad optics with a desinated bracelet. 

 

Sea pass coding is more discreet😉

[Ravbo]

3 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

Bad optics with a desinated bracelet. 

 

Sea pass coding is more discreet😉

Bracelet is meant to help crew easily identify passengers that are NOT required to comply with unvaccinated protocols.

Passengers without bracelet MUST comply with unvaccinated protocols.

[harkinmr]

2 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Yep, sorry you don’t see the stigma

I guess I don't.  If there is, then it's very likely that unvaccinated or "mixed" cruises will have to be an all or nothing concept.  No way to differentiate, then all protocols apply to all passengers vaccinated or not.  I can't imagine that going over too well, as least as evidenced by a lot of the comments here.

[jrapps]

So far Celebrity has indicated they will require vaccines in FL, and now NCL has done the same...they will being sailing the Norwegian Gem from Miami in August, 100% vaccinated ship.

 

On the Carnival CC forum, someone just posted a letter they got from Carnival regarding their July sailing on the Horizon. Too long to copy here, but I interpret it to mean they are still trying to get FL to agree to let them use vaccines to sail "from Florida in the same manner that we are sailing from Galveston in July and satisfy their requirements."

 

How ironic would it be if Royal was the only line to say no vaccine requirement.