New, as of June 17, US Rules--especially Florida!

[bigbenboys]

4 hours ago, terrydtx said:

I agree and the answer is to not do any cruises that leave Florida ports. Get vaccinated or stay home, I do not want more than 5% unvaccinated on my cruise but even 5% is risky.

It is my understanding that Millie will be cruising out of Seattle with fully vaccinated people on July 23rd. No stops in Canada.

[SueMo]

I am a long time Celebrity cruiser.  The last cruise I was on was the Eclipse Mar 2020.  DH & I both caught Covid onboard and our ship was stranded off of S. America as no ports wanted us to debark there.  Long story short, we both recovered.  We are vaccinated.  As much as we like Celebrity, we have booked Holland America for a holiday cruise out of Ft. Lauderdale in December.  It will be fully vaccinated and will not have a full passenger load.    RCCL and X are going with unvaccinated cruises out of Florida, NCL has threatened to move out of state, and Carnival and HAL have been very quiet in their intent.  They must have a plan??? 

[latserrof]

2 hours ago, iamaqt2 said:

If you plan on eating in the dining room, then you might as well not bother with the mask. 
 

No bother.

[Team Stag]

5 minutes ago, SueMo said:

    RCCL and X are going with unvaccinated cruises out of Florida, NCL has threatened to move out of state, and Carnival and HAL have been very quiet in their intent.  They must have a plan??? 

I believe Carnival has announced they are sailing with fully vaccinated boats.

My one takeaway is everyone seems to be trying a different approach.  Reminds me of all the states taking different approaches to Covid.  It will be interesting to follow and see what becomes the new industry standard approach in 6 months.

[Moonarino]

19 minutes ago, Team Stag said:

I believe Carnival has announced they are sailing with fully vaccinated boats.

My one takeaway is everyone seems to be trying a different approach.  Reminds me of all the states taking different approaches to Covid.  It will be interesting to follow and see what becomes the new industry standard approach in 6 months.

Hello Orlando. PAFB was my home for a while. I sheltered from a hurricane once at UCF, thoroughly appreciative of the hospitality.

 

I do hope for a standard soon but not holding my breath. I haven't looked at Carnival in ages, since our next two cruises are booked with X and RCI.

 

PS (added): FL with a tiger paw avatar? Bold lol...

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Moonarino

[bajathree]

33 minutes ago, SueMo said:

I am a long time Celebrity cruiser.  The last cruise I was on was the Eclipse Mar 2020.  DH & I both caught Covid onboard and our ship was stranded off of S. America as no ports wanted us to debark there.  Long story short, we both recovered.  We are vaccinated.  As much as we like Celebrity, we have booked Holland America for a holiday cruise out of Ft. Lauderdale in December.  It will be fully vaccinated and will not have a full passenger load.    RCCL and X are going with unvaccinated cruises out of Florida, NCL has threatened to move out of state, and Carnival and HAL have been very quiet in their intent.  They must have a plan??? 

And what makes you think any cruise lines will still be requiring fully vaccinated passengers in Dec? 6 months is a lifetime away right now with how lightning fast changes are taking place.

[Team Stag]

7 minutes ago, Moonarino said:

Hello Orlando. PAFB was my home for a while. I sheltered from a hurricane once at UCF, thoroughly appreciative of the hospitality.

 

I do hope for a standard soon but not holding my breath. I haven't looked at Carnival in ages, since our next two cruises are booked with X and RCI.

 

PS (added): FL with a tiger paw avatar? Bold lol...

 

I have some friends at PAFB.  Thank you for your service.

I haven't looked at Carnival in ages either.  But if they are sailing fully vaxed with no kids;  I might give them a look for a quick get away.

As far as the Tiger Paw, Clemson hasn't lost in the state of Florida or to a Florida team in at least the last 5 years (it might be closer to 7).  😂  😁  😎  (and probably just cursed my fall LOL)

[Suncoastsailors]

Imagine the unvaccinated who need to wear mask and with contact tracing in effect onboard. No other passengers will want to get near the passengers with mask. 

[LGW59]

45 minutes ago, SueMo said:

I am a long time Celebrity cruiser.  The last cruise I was on was the Eclipse Mar 2020.  DH & I both caught Covid onboard and our ship was stranded off of S. America as no ports wanted us to debark there.  Long story short, we both recovered.  We are vaccinated.  As much as we like Celebrity, we have booked Holland America for a holiday cruise out of Ft. Lauderdale in December.  It will be fully vaccinated and will not have a full passenger load.    RCCL and X are going with unvaccinated cruises out of Florida, NCL has threatened to move out of state, and Carnival and HAL have been very quiet in their intent.  They must have a plan??? 

So glad you have recovered!  I’m sure it was a stressful and traumatic experience.  Based on your personal experience no doubt you are being prudent!  I hope you get to relax and enjoy your next cruise.

[kearney]

Any actuaries on this thread...? I am wondering what the odds of a fully vaccinated ship (or perhaps >95% vaccinated) having it's itinerary cut short due to sizeable Covid outbreak... vs a hurricane significantly impacting a cruise itinerary in the Caribbean during the June -Dec time frame?

[tunaman2011]

4 minutes ago, kearney said:

Any actuaries on this thread...? I am wondering what the odds of a fully vaccinated ship (or perhaps >95% vaccinated) having it's itinerary cut short due to sizeable Covid outbreak... vs a hurricane significantly impacting a cruise itinerary in the Caribbean during the June -Dec time frame?

Greetings

 

June and early July are good bets to be hurricane free except for the gulf (Texas cruises may have issues).  Mid July through mid October are the peak times.  We live on the water and are always at home for those months just in case one decides to come our way.  And most travel insurance does not cover your having to stay home because a storm just hit your area and your picking up the pieces.

 

Good Sailing

Tom

[sherylc]

I'm not an actuary, but rather a Pediatrician.  I think one thing that most people are confusing is "vaccinated" vs "immune."  There seems to be as assumption being made that once you are fully vaccinated, you can consider yourself immune to Covid 2 weeks after your last shot. But all of the studies showed less than 100 percent protection: with the mRNA vaccines in the 94-95 percent range and the J &J closer to 70 percent.(numbers still changing with real world data)  So just playing with some numbers: Assume a passenger count of 1000 and a 1.5 percent positive rate to abort the cruise  -- that is only 15 people! If 5- 10 percent of the vaccinated (based on people receiving different vaccines) are actually non-immune that would be 50-100 people at risk. Add to that all of the unvaccinated on that cruise - perhaps 50 more.  With the delta variant and closed in spaces typical of a cruise, it doesn't take much to hit that 15 passenger limit (and I'm not sure they are caring whether all 15 of those are positive but asymptomatic!)

[kirtihk]

5 minutes ago, sherylc said:

I'm not an actuary, but rather a Pediatrician.  I think one thing that most people are confusing is "vaccinated" vs "immune."  There seems to be as assumption being made that once you are fully vaccinated, you can consider yourself immune to Covid 2 weeks after your last shot. But all of the studies showed less than 100 percent protection: with the mRNA vaccines in the 94-95 percent range and the J &J closer to 70 percent.(numbers still changing with real world data)  So just playing with some numbers: Assume a passenger count of 1000 and a 1.5 percent positive rate to abort the cruise  -- that is only 15 people! If 5- 10 percent of the vaccinated (based on people receiving different vaccines) are actually non-immune that would be 50-100 people at risk. Add to that all of the unvaccinated on that cruise - perhaps 50 more.  With the delta variant and closed in spaces typical of a cruise, it doesn't take much to hit that 15 passenger limit (and I'm not sure they are caring whether all 15 of those are positive but asymptomatic!)

That's the key!  In the "ancient" times (couple years ago) NO ONE CARED about in the opposite direction.  Today "asymptomatic" means dangerous, before it meant nothing at all (in most case no one even knew whether a person was asymptomatic or not).  Today they are counting, counting, counting. 

[ipeeinthepool]

14 minutes ago, sherylc said:

I'm not an actuary, but rather a Pediatrician.  I think one thing that most people are confusing is "vaccinated" vs "immune."  There seems to be as assumption being made that once you are fully vaccinated, you can consider yourself immune to Covid 2 weeks after your last shot. But all of the studies showed less than 100 percent protection: with the mRNA vaccines in the 94-95 percent range and the J &J closer to 70 percent.(numbers still changing with real world data)  So just playing with some numbers: Assume a passenger count of 1000 and a 1.5 percent positive rate to abort the cruise  -- that is only 15 people! If 5- 10 percent of the vaccinated (based on people receiving different vaccines) are actually non-immune that would be 50-100 people at risk. Add to that all of the unvaccinated on that cruise - perhaps 50 more.  With the delta variant and closed in spaces typical of a cruise, it doesn't take much to hit that 15 passenger limit (and I'm not sure they are caring whether all 15 of those are positive but asymptomatic!)

 

I'm not sure your assumption that 1.5 percent is a fair estimate.  The vaccines are 94-95% effective if you've been exposed.  I'm not sure where the passengers will get exposed if most of the ship is vaccinated and the unvaccinated are tested.  I doubt that the ship will visit islands with major Covid outbreaks.

 

BTW I'm not an actuary, but early in my career I was a rocket scientist.

Edited June 18, 2021 by ipeeinthepool

[MamaFej]

Rather than wristbands only for the non-vaxxed or vaxxed, perhaps all passengers could be required to wear one. I wouldn't enjoy it, but I'd certainly be willing to wear one (much like a mask). If all passengers are required to wear a wristband, no group is being singled out. They could even have the muster station printed on them. As for concerns about folks  cutting them off, a second could be provided, free of charge. If that one gets cut off, a significant charge for the next. If that one gets cut off, a change of accommodations to a small, locked lower deck room with no view, and disembarkation at the next port. 

 

They could be color-coded, making it easier for crew to identify who should be wearing a mask and comlying with other protocols that may exist.

 

        VACCINATED.             NON-VACCINATED.     

Having the words printed would reduce probelms for color blind staff, or maybe use a lighter shade on one and a darker shade on the other. 

 

[kearney]

13 minutes ago, tunaman2011 said:

Greetings

 

June and early July are good bets to be hurricane free except for the gulf (Texas cruises may have issues).  Mid July through mid October are the peak times.  We live on the water and are always at home for those months just in case one decides to come our way.  And most travel insurance does not cover your having to stay home because a storm just hit your area and your picking up the pieces.

 

Good Sailing

Tom

Ironically, we had done most of our cruises during the peak of the season... Sep -Oct... not on purpose..but..well they do tend to be cheaper... Fortunately, none of our cruises had to be cancelled or forced to disembark in another state (as happened a few years ago to a ship)... it has made me more flexible and compels you to be flexible ... we have been chased around the Caribbean a number of times.... One time after we had been to the Captains talk where he told us the ships top speed was something like 23 knots... the next morning the ship was trying to get around Cuba as a hurricane was heading across Cuba.... we checked the speed on the TV and I thought it said 24 knots... I recall telling my husband that the crew must be tossing furniture off the ship to lighten it up to increase speed. The trips I remember are the ones where things went wrong... made them more memorable. Fortunately nothing serious happened.. so it is easier to have a positive memory of a ship with lost ports of call and stormy seas..

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, kearney said:

Ironically, we had done most of our cruises during the peak of the season... Sep -Oct... not on purpose..but..well they do tend to be cheaper... Fortunately, none of our cruises had to be cancelled or forced to disembark in another state (as happened a few years ago to a ship)... it has made me more flexible and compels you to be flexible ... we have been chased around the Caribbean a number of times.... One time after we had been to the Captains talk where he told us the ships top speed was something like 23 knots... the next morning the ship was trying to get around Cuba as a hurricane was heading across Cuba.... we checked the speed on the TV and I thought it said 24 knots... I recall telling my husband that the crew must be tossing furniture off the ship to lighten it up to increase speed. The trips I remember are the ones where things went wrong... made them more memorable. Fortunately nothing serious happened.. so it is easier to have a positive memory of a ship with lost ports of call and stormy seas..

I love forward facing balcony in rocking and rolling seas.

[kearney]

8 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

BTW I'm not an actuary, but early in my career I was a rocket scientist.

Almost as good as having stayed in a Holiday Inn Express.

[kearney]

1 minute ago, LGW59 said:

I love forward facing balcony in rocking and rolling seas.

I also have a tendency for motion sickness...so why I keep selecting this time of year is a bit of a mystery.... 

[kearney]

16 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

I'm not sure your assumption that 1.5 percent is a fair estimate.  The vaccines are 94-95% effective if you've been exposed.  I'm not sure where the passengers will get exposed if most of the ship is vaccinated and the unvaccinated are tested.  I doubt that the ship will visit islands with major Covid outbreaks.

 

BTW I'm not an actuary, but early in my career I was a rocket scientist.

Actually, as I recall...CDC raised Bahamas to a level 3 a month or so ago... so I will need to be generous with the hand sanitizer while there.. before AOS sailing

[Babr]

12 minutes ago, MamaFej said:

Rather than wristbands only for the non-vaxxed or vaxxed, perhaps all passengers could be required to wear one. I wouldn't enjoy it, but I'd certainly be willing to wear one (much like a mask). If all passengers are required to wear a wristband, no group is being singled out. They could even have the muster station printed on them. As for concerns about folks  cutting them off, a second could be provided, free of charge. If that one gets cut off, a significant charge for the next. If that one gets cut off, a change of accommodations to a small, locked lower deck room with no view, and disembarkation at the next port. 

 

They could be color-coded, making it easier for crew to identify who should be wearing a mask and comlying with other protocols that may exist.

 

        VACCINATED.             NON-VACCINATED.     

Having the words printed would reduce probelms for color blind staff, or maybe use a lighter shade on one and a darker shade on the other. 

 

I’m guessing that everyone will wear masks in common areas and present their cruise cards to be admitted to various areas. The information can be encoded in the card so when it is scanned the attendant knows who is vaccinated or not, thus which people to admit or where to seat them.People will learn quickly that there is no need to try to enter areas reserved for vaccinated passengers if they are not.

 

Very discreet. No need for banners or bracelets.

[Cruising89143]

3 minutes ago, Babr said:

I’m guessing that everyone will wear masks in common areas and present their cruise cards to be admitted to various areas. The information can be encoded in the card so when it is scanned the attendant knows who is vaccinated or not, thus which people to admit or where to seat them.People will learn quickly that there is no need to try to enter areas reserved for vaccinated passengers if they are not.

 

Very discreet. No need for banners or bracelets.

As it stands “today” those who are vaccinated will not be forced to wear masks onboard the vessel. 

[ipeeinthepool]

I guess we aren't going to hear anything more from the Judge in the Florida vs CDC lawsuit.  There was speculation that the Judge might rule on a preliminary injunction this week.

[Babr]

12 minutes ago, cruisingator2 said:

As it stands “today” those who are vaccinated will not be forced to wear masks onboard the vessel. 

Yes. I was just trying to think how it might work- not official or even completely thought out.

[basenji56]

28 minutes ago, Babr said:

I’m guessing that everyone will wear masks in common areas and present their cruise cards to be admitted to various areas. The information can be encoded in the card so when it is scanned the attendant knows who is vaccinated or not, thus which people to admit or where to seat them.People will learn quickly that there is no need to try to enter areas reserved for vaccinated passengers if they are not.

 

Very discreet. No need for banners or bracelets.

I am waiting for the lawsuits from the unvaccinated arguing that they paid for a certain class of cruise ticket and are being prevented from receiving the benefits of that level of ticket since they are excluded from various areas because they are unvaccinated.  How do they handle shows?  One show time for vaccinated (95%) and the other for unvaccinated (5%)?