Sightseeing plane missing in Alaska.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

18 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

I have been following Pescado Amarillo's blog (her name is Jeannie and they live in the Denver area).  I am also very concerned as her last post was two days ago.  She had stated that she would post while in port where she could use WiFi and Ketchikan should have had plenty of places to post from.  In addition the ship was held in port for longer than planned on account of the tragedy so I hope and pray that her and her husband are both ok.  For those interested here is her blog, hope she posts soon.

 

http://pescadoamarillo.blogspot.com/2021/08/

I have followed her off and on over the years as well. She has not posted since reporting on Glacier Bay and Icy Strait Point, there would have been Sitka after ICP and I had plenty of good cell reception in Sitka prior to Kethcikan. So she has missed both ports. It is possibly that she is having a hard time accessing her blog with the ship internet. Or at least I hope that is her problem.  

[bluesea321]

She normally cruises with Princess and my understanding from her blog is that she was not planning on using the Holland American internet; that she would be using either cell service when in port or local wifi.  She would have had plenty of chances to touch base from Ketchikan after this tragedy thus my concerns.  

[julia]

I've been really enjoying her blog and photos...  praying it's just an internet thing. 🙏

[bluesea321]

This was posted on August 6 (today) at 4:07 PM (CDT) - we may not know the name of the victims for a while.

 

Poor weather conditions were hindering efforts to recover the bodies of six people who were killed when a sightseeing plane crashed in southeast Alaska, Alaska State Troopers said Friday.  The victims have not been identified, and troopers were working with volunteers from the Ketchikan Volunteer Rescue Squad to coordinate recovery efforts.  "Poor weather conditions and deteriorating visibility in the Ketchikan and Misty Fjords area have prevented the Alaska State Troopers and volunteers from the Ketchikan Volunteer Rescue Squad from conducting any recovery efforts this morning,” troopers spokesperson Austin McDaniel said in an email Friday to The Associated Press.  Victims won’t be named until they have identified them following recovery efforts, he said.  All five passengers were on an excursion of the Holland America Line cruise ship Nieuw Amsterdam. The company was making counseling services available to guests and crew, it said in a statement.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/poor-weather-hampers-crash-victim-recovery-efforts-alaska-79321614

 

[markwfpb]

57 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

 

I have been following Pescado Amarillo's blog (her name is Jeannie and they live in the Denver area).  I am also very concerned as her last post was two days ago.  She had stated that she would post while in port where she could use WiFi and Ketchikan should have had plenty of places to post from.  In addition the ship was held in port for longer than planned on account of the tragedy so I hope and pray that her and her husband are both ok.  For those interested here is her blog, hope she posts soon.

 

http://pescadoamarillo.blogspot.com/2021/08/

I don’t know if the names of all involved have been released, but two have been - a couple who lives about a quarter mile from us here in Napa, CA. 
 

They sound like they were wonderful, giving people. So sad. 

https://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/napa-couple-killed-in-alaska-plane-crash/article_33ee0f8a-9201-5192-968e-34d3af3fa8c8.html#tracking-source=home-breaking

 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by markwfpb

[bluesea321]

8 minutes ago, markwfpb said:

I don’t know if the names of all involved have been released, but two have been - a couple who lives about a quarter mile from us here in Napa, CA. 
 

I can’t seem to get a link to work, but if you go to napavalleyregister.com it’s the lead story. 

 

Thank you.  I read the story - very sad for the victims.

 

[LesandDavid]

Information for two of those killed in the sightseeing plane crash in Alaska from Napa, Ca: 

www.napavalleyregister.com (jhuffman@napanews.com)

 

God Bless them all

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by LesandDavid
spelling error

[LesandDavid]

Thoughts and prayers to all the victims, families and friends

Edited August 7, 2021 by LesandDavid
duplicate information

[kiwimum]

48 minutes ago, bluesea321 said:

She normally cruises with Princess and my understanding from her blog is that she was not planning on using the Holland American internet; that she would be using either cell service when in port or local wifi.  She would have had plenty of chances to touch base from Ketchikan after this tragedy thus my concerns.  

Edited August 7, 2021 by kiwimum

[bluesea321]

The ship is supposed to dock in Seattle on Saturday (tomorrow) at 7 AM.  Jeannie (Pescado Amarillo) posted this:  "We will not have WiFi on the Nieuw Amsterdam, but I will continue to blog and will publish posts (without photos, most likely) from the ports where we have cellular internet."

 

There should be plenty of cell and wifi access in Seattle so hopefully we will hear from them tomorrow.

[julia]

1 hour ago, bluesea321 said:

  All five passengers were on an excursion of the Holland America Line cruise ship Nieuw Amsterdam. The company was making counseling services available to guests and crew, it said in a statement.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/poor-weather-hampers-crash-victim-recovery-efforts-alaska-79321614

 

Seriously poor reporting!

Should read:

"All five deceased were visiting Ketchikan aboard Holland America's Nieuw Amsterdam.  The flightseeing excursion was not affiliated with the cruise line."

[AFNavigator]

19 hours ago, julia said:

In a news article, it stated that the cloud ceiling was 900ft, light mist and rain, visibility was two miles, and winds were 8mph.  How would you rate those conditions?

I would rate those conditions as extremely poor for what was supposed to be a visual sightseeing flight.  Those conditions don't even meet Marginal Visual Flight Rules (MVFR) minimums, they fall solidly under Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) conditions. 

 

Category      Ceiling                                Visibility

VFR           >3,000 AGL            and           > 5 mi

MVFR       1,000 to 3,000 AGL and/or   3 to 5 mi

IFR            500 to 999 AGL    and/or   1 mi to <3 mi

LIFR          <500 AGL              and/or       <1 mi

 

VFR - Visual Flight Rules

MVFR - Marginal VFR

IFR - Instrument Flight Rules

LIFR - Low IFR

AGL - Above Ground Level

 

 If the pilot was not IFR rated, and didn't file for an IFR clearance (no information given in this forum as to the pilot's qualifications or filing status), then this flight should never have happened. There are countless aviation accidents resulting from pilots entering weather without the training nor qualifications to do so.  They experience spatial disorientation (your brain doesn't know which way is up) after entering the clouds and lose control of the aircraft, often without even knowing it.

[julia]

@AFNavigatorThank you for this detailed reply, it is very interesting.  

[bluesea321]

Some details on the tragedy here:

 

https://www.newstribune.com/news/national/story/2021/aug/07/weather-hampers-crash-victim-recovery-efforts-in-alaska/882615/

[syesmar]

16 hours ago, bluesea321 said:

The ship is supposed to dock in Seattle on Saturday (tomorrow) at 7 AM.  Jeannie (Pescado Amarillo) posted this:...

 

There should be plenty of cell and wifi access in Seattle so hopefully we will hear from them tomorrow.

She made some posts this morning (8/7), thankfully.

[NavArch64]

Just off the ship in Seattle. The Captain was extremely open and transparent about the accident at his Q and A yesterday afternoon. He showed compassion and concern for the families of those who were lost.

[Loreto]

22 minutes ago, NavArch64 said:

Just off the ship in Seattle. The Captain was extremely open and transparent about the accident at his Q and A yesterday afternoon. He showed compassion and concern for the families of those who were lost.

We are just off the ship too.  Cruise director Valerie started off the Ask The Captain addressing the tragedy, made it clear the weren’t going to take audience questions.  Captain gave a respectful rundown as to all the services that were available including grief counseling and how devastating it is for the citizens of Ketchikan, where everyone knows everyone.

 

I went out on a HAL excursion toward Misty Fjiords that morning. Weather was not good. The mood on the ship was subdued, with a small audience for the Step One dance show.  Very sad for the families of those lost and I pray for them all.

Karen

[1ANGELCAT]

Per KTUU Anchorage, the victims of the tragedy have been recovered and identified 💔💔💔💔💔💔

[mamaofami]

This is heartbreaking. We took the floatplane ride and also the helicopter ride out of Juneau. The float plane landed in the water and it was absolutely beautiful and quiet. The helicopter through the glaciers was the best tour I’ve ever taken. Such tragic news. Prayers for the families.

[Tennessee Titan]

FROM YAHOO NEWS....

The passengers who died were Mark Henderson, 69, and Jacquelyn Komplin, 60, both of Napa California; Andrea McArthur, 55, and Rachel McArthur, 20, both of Woodstock, Georgia; and Janet Kroll, 77, of Mount Prospect, Illinois. The pilot was Rolf Lanzendorfer, 64, of Cle Elum, Washington

Edited August 8, 2021 by Tennessee Titan

[idiebabe]

2 hours ago, Tennessee Titan said:

FROM YAHOO NEWS....

The passengers who died were Mark Henderson, 69, and Jacquelyn Komplin, 60, both of Napa California; Andrea McArthur, 55, and Rachel McArthur, 20, both of Woodstock, Georgia; and Janet Kroll, 77, of Mount Prospect, Illinois. The pilot was Rolf Lanzendorfer, 64, of Cle Elum, Washington

Thanks for sharing!  So sad for all the Families and appears a Mom and Daughter lost their lives that day!  😢

[crusinbanjo]

On 8/7/2021 at 10:28 AM, AFNavigator said:

I would rate those conditions as extremely poor for what was supposed to be a visual sightseeing flight.  Those conditions don't even meet Marginal Visual Flight Rules (MVFR) minimums, they fall solidly under Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) conditions. 

 

Category      Ceiling                                Visibility

VFR           >3,000 AGL            and           > 5 mi

MVFR       1,000 to 3,000 AGL and/or   3 to 5 mi

IFR            500 to 999 AGL    and/or   1 mi to ❤️ mi

LIFR          <500 AGL              and/or       <1 mi

 

VFR - Visual Flight Rules

MVFR - Marginal VFR

IFR - Instrument Flight Rules

LIFR - Low IFR

AGL - Above Ground Level

 

 If the pilot was not IFR rated, and didn't file for an IFR clearance (no information given in this forum as to the pilot's qualifications or filing status), then this flight should never have happened. There are countless aviation accidents resulting from pilots entering weather without the training nor qualifications to do so.  They experience spatial disorientation (your brain doesn't know which way is up) after entering the clouds and lose control of the aircraft, often without even knowing it.

Also, flying in IFR conditions, a glacier would not be very visible and a very real collision hazard.   If an IFR flight clearance had been issued, the aircraft would need to be at “safe altitude” or above for that area ATC would never issue a clearance into an unsafe area.  As an IFR certified pilot, I  totally agree with your assessment.  A 900 ft ceiling, 2 miles visibility  is not adequate for VFR, and as everyone now knows quite dangerous.  Flight should have been canceled.

[syesmar]

4 hours ago, Tennessee Titan said:

FROM YAHOO NEWS....

The passengers who died were Mark Henderson, 69, and Jacquelyn Komplin, 60, both of Napa California; Andrea McArthur, 55, and Rachel McArthur, 20, both of Woodstock, Georgia; and Janet Kroll, 77, of Mount Prospect, Illinois. The pilot was Rolf Lanzendorfer, 64, of Cle Elum, Washington

Thanks. Just so heartbreaking. Prayers for their loved ones.

[quack2]

According to their website, Southeast Aviation has suspended flight operations.

 

[TiogaCruiser]

4 hours ago, crusinbanjo said:

Also, flying in IFR conditions, a glacier would not be very visible and a very real collision hazard.   If an IFR flight clearance had been issued, the aircraft would need to be at “safe altitude” or above for that area ATC would never issue a clearance into an unsafe area.  As an IFR certified pilot, I  totally agree with your assessment.  A 900 ft ceiling, 2 miles visibility  is not adequate for VFR, and as everyone now knows quite dangerous.  Flight should have been canceled.

Dumb question here, I’m sure, but does ATC have any jurisdiction in Misty Fiords?