Are Low Staffing Levels Part of Celebrity’s Plan to Cut Costs and Increase Profitably?

[markeb]

58 minutes ago, Megabear2 said:

I am very much used to  "split facilities" cruises being a diamond Cunard cruiser so I had no worries previously about those paying more having separate restaurants etc.   What is concerning me is that having been directed to this forum by my Cunard and P&O fellow posters because "the Celebrity board is full of great information and they are a friendly bunch" I have visions of half the ship being out of bounds to us and facilities fully booked in advance to suite guests - the specialty restaurants for instance.

 

For a variety of reasons not all due to a global pandemic, we will have gone over 4 years between cruises. And I haven't cruised the Edge class. A lot of what you're hearing about "half the ship being out of bounds" are from people cruising an M or S class ship they'd previously sailed, and facilities that used to be open to all aren't. The most frequently mentioned is Michael's Club, now the Retreat Lounge, which I believe was an open to all area, and even a piano bar. There are undoubtedly other areas of the ships that IF YOU'D SAILED IT BEFORE (shouting for emphasis), you'd notice a difference. The Edge class was built pretty much to emphasize the suites and the Retreat, so I have to assume those areas were never there, and now they are, but only for those who paid extra. But again, the biggest criticism (as JFontaine stated, the name of this board is Cruise Critic...) has been change in access.

[gerelmx]

X phones in MX were shutdown this weekend now the calls are redirected to USA call center, the current problems I have detected are more waiting time, operator answer in English needed to a operator that speaks Spanish, other operator was confused give me the prices of my booked cruise in USCy instead of MX pesos.

[TeeRick]

35 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

For a variety of reasons not all due to a global pandemic, we will have gone over 4 years between cruises. And I haven't cruised the Edge class. A lot of what you're hearing about "half the ship being out of bounds" are from people cruising an M or S class ship they'd previously sailed, and facilities that used to be open to all aren't. The most frequently mentioned is Michael's Club, now the Retreat Lounge, which I believe was an open to all area, and even a piano bar. There are undoubtedly other areas of the ships that IF YOU'D SAILED IT BEFORE (shouting for emphasis), you'd notice a difference. The Edge class was built pretty much to emphasize the suites and the Retreat, so I have to assume those areas were never there, and now they are, but only for those who paid extra. But again, the biggest criticism (as JFontaine stated, the name of this board is Cruise Critic...) has been change in access.

Michael's Club was not open to anybody but suite guests and Zenith members for many years even before the pandemic.  The only change since is restriction of access to Zenith members.

[TeeRick]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

To be honest isolation and quarantine doesn't worry me one iota if I'm in Europe.  Since last September I have been engaged at a high level with two UK based cruise lines on this issue and also with a large number of UK insurers and government bodies about requirements.  I may be very unlucky but go into any cruise with my eyes very widely open, know my rights in each place I'm visiting and know for certain in writing that every scenario I have so far heard of or envisaged is fully covered by my insurance.

 

My comments on Celebrity's protocols and quarantine are based very much on how at the beginning of my work on this issue, they were a guiding beacon quoted by all involved as a company who really were intent on looking after their guests.  I used their policies as very much the standard the other lines should strive for and through the winter that has been very much the case.  

 

When looking to book a cruise with my friend she chose Celebrity based on her experience on her one cruise 8 years ago.  I was happy with her choice due to the protocols and Celebrity's reputation.  What I failed to take into account was Celebrity's massive policy changes moving them from the top of the pile to the bottom and the apparent growth of the ship within a ship idea of The Retreat.  I now find myself worrying about overcrowding, long waits in the MDR, preferential treatment for reservations for other services if general staff are moved to prioritise the suite guests and reading of a general drop in customer care.

 

I am very much used to  "split facilities" cruises being a diamond Cunard cruiser so I had no worries previously about those paying more having separate restaurants etc.   What is concerning me is that having been directed to this forum by my Cunard and P&O fellow posters because "the Celebrity board is full of great information and they are a friendly bunch" I have visions of half the ship being out of bounds to us and facilities fully booked in advance to suite guests - the specialty restaurants for instance.

Thanks for your views on quarantine protocols and I agree that Celebrity has gone backwards here quite a bit.  Not to mention the end of the 48 hour cancellation for any reason policy.  Living in the USA it is a bit more unnerving to cruise in Europe due to the airline 1 day testing requirement to get home.  But as to your trepidation on suites, only a small part of each ship is dedicated to them - a bit more on E-Class ships.  Not half.  And all suites dine in Luminae so no pressure on the MDR from them.  The specialty restaurants are not overwhelmed by suites guests and reservations- although the very highest suites (Royal and above) get them included in their pricing.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

1 hour ago, JFontaine said:

... I hope you enjoy your cruise.  I've enjoyed all of mine. 

 

Never sailed on the Regal Empress I'm guessing?  (lol)

 

Tom

[Fly and Sail]

5 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Geez let's step back for just a second to some reality. We are in Pandemic Year Three.  Continued labor shortages in all industries, especially service industries- despite paying higher wages and offering signing bonuses.

 

Never seen a shortage of low wage workers in South Asian/South East Asian countries and no signing bonuses offered there either. All the people I talked to are happy to get back to work. Tens of thousands of hospitality workers in Bali, Indonesia are out of a job as the restrictions have killed the island. This is problem of western countries and Western staff makes up what, 2-3% of the workforce on a ship?

 

Celebrity should have mothballed Solstice and Eclipse at least until the ships have been revolutionized and used the surplus staff to be posted on other ships where extra crew is urgently needed.

[markeb]

43 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Michael's Club was not open to anybody but suite guests and Zenith members for many years even before the pandemic.  The only change since is restriction of access to Zenith members.

Agree. But this has been a common issue/concern/complaint raised here. Michael's became a suite lounge well before I took my first Celebrity cruise. 

[Algebralovr]

3 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

When looking to book a cruise with my friend she chose Celebrity based on her experience on her one cruise 8 years ago.  I was happy with her choice due to the protocols and Celebrity's reputation.  What I failed to take into account was Celebrity's massive policy changes moving them from the top of the pile to the bottom and the apparent growth of the ship within a ship idea of The Retreat.  I now find myself worrying about overcrowding, long waits in the MDR, preferential treatment for reservations for other services if general staff are moved to prioritise the suite guests and reading of a general drop in customer care.

 

I am very much used to  "split facilities" cruises being a diamond Cunard cruiser so I had no worries previously about those paying more having separate restaurants etc.   What is concerning me is that having been directed to this forum by my Cunard and P&O fellow posters because "the Celebrity board is full of great information and they are a friendly bunch" I have visions of half the ship being out of bounds to us and facilities fully booked in advance to suite guests - the specialty restaurants for instance.

 

I honestly would simply go on your cruise and enjoy yourself.    We did Reflection in November 2021 in a Sky Suite, had a great cruise.  Then Summit in a regular balcony (booked an oceanview) in December 2021.  Again, great  cruise.  Then Reflection in December as well (the NYE cruise) in a regular blacony.  Ship had about 1700 - 1800 guests, felt like a party finally, but we had amazing service even as we watched people disappear and eventually reappear due to possible Covid exposure. 

 

Then we were on Silhouette in February.  Had a fantastic cruise.  We had a Move-UP upgrade to a Sky Suite, and LOVED that particular Revolution, but if I had missed the Solstice Deck?  I'd have managed (although it is my favorite place on many days).    Loved the way the aft by the Lawn has been re-worked and would have spent more time there (with less wind) on sea days.

 

Friends just disembarked from Silhouette in a Concierge Class room and had a good cruise.  If they had not?  I would have heard about it.  He would have told me ALL about the issues had they had any.  And they have been on Silhouette in both pre- and post-Revolution cruises.  

 

2 hours ago, markeb said:

 

For a variety of reasons not all due to a global pandemic, we will have gone over 4 years between cruises. And I haven't cruised the Edge class. A lot of what you're hearing about "half the ship being out of bounds" are from people cruising an M or S class ship they'd previously sailed, and facilities that used to be open to all aren't. The most frequently mentioned is Michael's Club, now the Retreat Lounge, which I believe was an open to all area, and even a piano bar. There are undoubtedly other areas of the ships that IF YOU'D SAILED IT BEFORE (shouting for emphasis), you'd notice a difference. The Edge class was built pretty much to emphasize the suites and the Retreat, so I have to assume those areas were never there, and now they are, but only for those who paid extra. But again, the biggest criticism (as JFontaine stated, the name of this board is Cruise Critic...) has been change in access.

They closed Michael's Club and made it into the Retreat Lounge quite a few years ago.  They carved the Suite Dining Room, Luminae out in what... 2014?  Michaels club was about the same time?

I've been on M and S class ships both pre-Suite Retreat and post, sometimes in a suite, often not.  It is ALWAYS a good product.

[Algebralovr]

1 hour ago, Fly and Sail said:

 

Never seen a shortage of low wage workers in South Asian/South East Asian countries and no signing bonuses offered there either. All the people I talked to are happy to get back to work. Tens of thousands of hospitality workers in Bali, Indonesia are out of a job as the restrictions have killed the island. This is problem of western countries and Western staff makes up what, 2-3% of the workforce on a ship?

 

Celebrity should have mothballed Solstice and Eclipse at least until the ships have been revolutionized and used the surplus staff to be posted on other ships where extra crew is urgently needed.

Exactly what I bolded in your statement.  All the people I have spoken to are thrilled to get back to work.  

Now, many of the people I saw pre-pandemic have NOT returned to work the ships, but MANY of those are women who decided to start families once they realized how long this would go on.  I see them kissing their husbands goodbye and posting with photos of their babies, showing off their babies to their former colleagues.  

Then, once on board, I meet new people on their first contract, MAYBE second.  They are learning the ropes.  They are looking forward to making $$$ and sending it back home.  

 

As for mothballing Solstice and Eclipse, I'm sure that was considered, however those ships had a number of bookings on them for Alaska.  I don't blame Celerity at ALL for staffing up the ships and sailing the planned cruises into Alaska.  

 

It is a multi-faceted issue.  They need staff for the ship, but they need to have a ship ready to go to have a place to put the staff.  They have factors holding recruitment events all over.  One of the Serbian Future Cruise Managers posted a hiring even on her FB page earlier today.  They have a recruitor going along the Adratic to hold hiring events this week and next.  The tend to be able to get I-95 Visas from European Countries easier than Asian.   I expect to see a whole bunch of new hospitality people show up. 

One of the MDR Asst waitress I am aquainted with had gotten a job as a hotel front end manager in Croatia while unemployed last year.  As soon as Celebrity offered to bring her back, she jumped on it.  She said she makes MUCH better money working as an ASST Waitress than as the front end manager in a hotel in her hometown.  

I'm guessing many others will join her in trying out the hospitality service on the ships for a few years.  Just a matter of time to get them hired.  AND if they join a ship already in Europe, they don't need an I-95 right away.  That gives Celebrity people to do the job while in Europe.  They can deal with the Visa issue over time.  Also, we all know that the US State Dept will be easier on Europeans who are ALREADY ON BOARD than on Asians not yet on board.

[JeanieC,Aston]

I remember Perry Grant in Michaels Club in I think 2015,,before it was given over to suite guests.

My memory for years is not that good these days though,,,it could have been 2014 or 2016.

He was not my cup of tea.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

6 minutes ago, JeanieC,Aston said:

I remember Perry Grant in Michaels Club in I think 2015,,before it was given over to suite guests.

My memory for years is not that good these days though,,,it could have been 2014 or 2016.

He was not my cup of tea.

 

Nor ours - but, man, he had a following!

 

Tom

[kjwinston2019]

On 5/15/2022 at 6:51 AM, drakes2 said:

I just got off the Eclipse last Saturday from an 11 night Hawaii cruise. Waited 2 hours 15 minutes in the MDR for our entree to arrive and when it did was lukewarm.  They were extremely short staffed and clearly untrained. Running out of premium wines and trying to push basic wines thereby making even more of a profit.  Sommeliers have absolutely no training whatsoever. I believe it was the first contract for many of them those who were on their second contract were much more efficient.  Guest relations were no better. I took a Celebrity transfer from airport to pier and was charged more than quoted. When I complained I got all kinds of answers from guest relations until they realized it was a coding error and fixed it. Went from bad to worse.  They didn't even know I could take out part of my refundable OBC as cash from my account  Lady pointed to an ATM machine and said to get my money from there. 

I would have called the Mate Dra dee over and asked for Bottles of wine. I bet they would have made good on it. Just be polite and ask, let them know...and they will make it better.

[kjwinston2019]

On 5/15/2022 at 2:16 PM, wrk2cruise said:

I do think that some of the current situation is due to the miscalculation by Celebrity of the staffing needs over time.  Maybe no fault of their own.  We were on Summit in Nov with 900 crew, 2 weeks ago 600+ crew.  On Constellation in Jan with 900 crew and in late March with 900 crew.

 

Celebrity certainly thought that they would be approaching full capacity (80+) at the holidays and through the rest of the Caribbean season.  Then Omicron hit and there were heavy cancellations with CwC.  Our January sailing has 200 no shows over and above the number the GR manager was expecting to board the day before.  On that sailing crew were openly worried about contracts being cut short by a couple of months.

 

I believe that Celebrity purposely scaled back crew levels in Feburary and I guess I can't blame them given the passenger loads.  But then they certainly shouldn't allow unbounded bookings now if they are still constraining crew levels.

 

I bet Beyond is at full crew......

Of course they would have a full staff...Capt. Kate is the "Darling of the fleet! She also just had all the upper Managment team on board. You watch, the next newest Edge class ship will have the best also. The Caribbean cruise seem to always take Pirority for they make the most money for those 7 day or less Cruises. I wish on the west coast we would see more of the 12-14 day cruises. 

[HMR74]

15 minutes ago, kjwinston2019 said:

I would have called the Mate Dra dee over and asked for Bottles of wine. I bet they would have made good on it. Just be polite and ask, let them know...and they will make it better.

There is a you tube chronicaling turn around day I think for Oasis.

Everthing is choreographed including food and liquor provisions.

Suppliers have a scheduled time to be ther, if not they get turned away.

It has to be precision, they do not have the time in the day for a bunch of timing errors.

Thats when things are running smoothly

Now we have hte overall supply chain issues so teh situation is worsening . Its why auto manufactures have tons of cars abnd light tructs sitting in a lot waiting for the missing part. Or a colleague waitng a year for a zero king refridge.

Only so much can be controlled now.

Books havebeen written on this-one is called the Theory of Constraints.

[kjwinston2019]

On 5/17/2022 at 8:33 PM, markeb said:

I'm not happy about what people are reporting, but I don't know why anyone is surprised. Have you flown recently? Great article this weekend about airline pilots. Turns out a lot of them are in the 51-59 year old range. Mandatory retirement is currently 65. Wide body pilots can make $350K a year. When the airlines were idled in 2020, a lot of them offered early retirement, which I suspect the stockholders (including everyone on this thread's 401K/403B) applauded to keep earnings up. Well, you can't make a 777 pilot overnight, and now the major carriers are cannibalizing their regional carriers to get pilots with enough flight hours to fly those big jets. Regional pilots make something like $66K a year, so they're jumping at the opportunity to triple their salary (or more). In some markets, those ERJ's are being replaced by buses.

 

No, we're not talking airline pilots here, but it's illustrative of the problems. Senior people retired and moved on with life. The base that the service industries recruit from found things to do during the pandemic. No hard numbers or data, just anecdotes, but some went to community college (or the equivalent) and learned to code. If you can get paid to literally sit in your underwear at home writing Python scripts, why go to the hassle of getting passports, visa, health checks, etc. to clean toilets on a cruise ship? Or in the US, flip burgers?

 

And, again, the cost cutting increases earnings per share to your 401K...

FINALLY some one who makes sence. Have you looked at you 401K lately? The corps are going to be worried about their earnings. I see the ships hiring as fast as they can, for so many of us retirees love spending money on any cruise line. We personally love Celebrity, and will have patience to any and all situations. Might take another 3 years to get back to Pre Covid, but it will come. 

[Minniebug]

interesting spelling for Maitre 'd...

 

[Oceangoer2]

4 minutes ago, Minniebug said:

interesting spelling for Maitre 'd...

 

I suppose a navy person would reference 'mate' ...lol.

[Mark_K]

On 5/18/2022 at 2:08 PM, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

Never sailed on the Regal Empress I'm guessing?  (lol)

 

Tom

Nor the S.S. Minnow.

[phoenix_dream]

To be honest, I haven't gone back and read this entire thread, but wanted to comment on our experiences.  We have sailed 8 times on Celebrity, on 7 different ships since sailing resumed last year and we have had great service on each and every one.  On a few we were in Sky Suites, and the rest we were in Aqua Class.  I would expect that as capacity drastically increases recently it will take some time to be as fully staffed, with experienced crew, as they need to be.  In the meantime on my next cruise in July I plan to be patient and thankful.  I don't think this is any future cost cutting measure (although Celebrity has certainly done its fair share of that over time), but rather a struggle to get the proper number of staff onboard, get them trained, and keep them testing negative.  

[Whinenowine]

I have to wonder if some of what we've 'endured' over the past two years will stay with us for a while.  I think we've all become more understanding/accepting and are generally now used to paying the same and getting less (or paying more for the same as we used to get).  This is certainly the case on airlines where everything now is charged on an a la carte basis (with the base price being what we used to pay for everything). Will it happen to cruising, too? If we remain "desensitized' to these changes, then it very well may become the new norm (some of that is probably a good thing for society).

[sgmn]

I've had two celebrity cruises, both during the pandemic, both 'S' class. Prior to pandemic we always cruised on Royal Caribbean. 

Our last cruise in May was almost full and I didn't notice any downgrading in staffing or service levels .

I do miss the wrap around promenade decks as Celebrity doesn’t seem to have them, as we like to walk right around the ship.  We do like the Sky Lounge but I've heard its not there on Beyond (our next cruise) because of the increased size of the retreat area. Hopefully we will find somewhere else to look out to sea in the front,  otherwise will make do with the Eden Lounge. 

To be honest, everyone tends to say that Celebrity's food is better than Royal Caribbean but we found it similar, some meals were good, others disappointing. But we haven't cruised Royal since the pandemic so maybe the food there isn't as good as it was.

I am shocked at how much the specialist restaurants are, around $55pp plus per meal.

We usually go to one or two a cruise but won't on Beyond. Looking forward to the four dinning rooms with different menus concept on Beyond. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by sgmn

[PatC]

On 5/18/2022 at 9:00 AM, Megabear2 said:

I wouldn't call Celebrity luxury, my cruise on Celebrity Edge was booked as it was the cheapest option for a good cruise line in comparison with others.  The steerage comment was tongue in cheek  hence the quotation marks.   I'm quite nervous after 70 sailings on other lines as to what I may encounter as nearly every post I see on these boards is from or refers to suite guests.   I certainly have begun to feel second rate and that isn't tongue in cheek!

I agree.  Just returned from Equinox and it's obvious suite guests are "preferred".  Have sailed over 30 years with Celebrity and still see the same wonderful service from staff and crew BUT suites do take priority.  We couldn't get a reservation in any specialty restaurant for the entire 9 nights.  The dining room was chaos the first 2 nights but then empty at both select and regular seating.  Makes me wonder about how crowded Luminae was.  I do see a preference for suite guests and that's fine but we cannot afford those suites.  Having sailed Edge I will never do that class again.

 

As to the poster who suggested taking ships out of service, how about one of the Edge class?  Most of us do agree that the M and S class ships are great, even with their staffing issues.  Don't throw the "babies" out with the bathwater.  These 2 classes are sailing almost to capacity.  Equinox jumped from 1/2 full to 2200 on our sailing.  You cannot expect the true Celebrity brand to be the same with this influx.  Just my opinion.

[mahdnc]

56 minutes ago, sgmn said:

We do like the Sky Lounge but I've heard its not there on Beyond (our next cruise) because of the increased size of the retreat area. Hopefully we will find somewhere else to look out to sea in the front,  otherwise will make do with the Eden Lounge. 

 

The loss of the Sky Lounge is truly regrettable. Celebrity started chipping away at the Sky Lounge space when the S class ships came out.  Now they are gone with E class.

[lhsail]

On 5/18/2022 at 2:48 PM, JeanieC,Aston said:

I remember Perry Grant in Michaels Club in I think 2015,,before it was given over to suite guests.

My memory for years is not that good these days though,,,it could have been 2014 or 2016.

He was not my cup of tea.

But, a lot of fun!

[HMR74]

23 minutes ago, mahdnc said:

 

The loss of the Sky Lounge is truly regrettable. Celebrity started chipping away at the Sky Lounge space when the S class ships came out.  Now they are gone with E class.

The Club effectively replaces the Sky Lounge  on E class--not much one can see late night when we would go up to the sky lounge, although it was nice for things like meet and mingle  day time.