Ship Excursion - Don’t Believe the Ship Won’t Leave You

[maryandmarge]

13 hours ago, annnrl said:

In October my husband and I took a 21 day Panama Canal cruise from Vancouver to Ft. Lauderdale on the Nieuw Amsterdam.  My husband and 40 other passengers booked a ship excursion to go zip lining in Costa Rica.  A rain storm came through and Holland America cancelled all of the excursions except theirs (they didn’t know this at the time). In order to get out of the rain forest they had to zip line on medal cables in thunder and lightning and pouring rain, walk almost 4 miles in calf high mud, and be shuffled all around for three days wearing the same gross smelly clothes. Three days later (after the canal) they were flown to Panama to rejoin the ship. (Three people actually were flown to 5 countries before they could get back onboard.) Holland’s idea of compensation for this fiasco was a refund for the excursion, $150 OBC, and a $100 off of my husband’s next cruise. They also offered to show them a movie of the Panama Canal.  We put in a claim to the insurance company who just told us yesterday that they are only going to refund us $111 because he technically didn’t miss a port because the canal passage isn’t a port. Holland’s reasoning behind not waiting was purely financial.  The captain stated that they would have lost the $300k that they already paid and they would have to pay that amount again for the new spot.  We have been on over 35 cruises and we never thought something like this would happen.  It’s amazing that no one was killed. (Other passengers have tried to post their story on Holland’s Facebook page, but it keeps getting taken down.)

I was also on this Panama Cruise and felt bad for the 41 people that we had to leave behind to be able to meet our time slot at the Panama Canal.     I would like to correct you however when you said Holland cancelled every other excursions on that day.   We did a Holland shore excursion to the Countryside and Coffee Plantation quite a distance from the ship.   When we left the pier it was a bright and sunny day.   We did encounter severe rain storm on returning to the ship.   In Hollands defense there were a lot of tours that went out that day.   Not just the zip line one.   I agree that they should have done much more in compensating those people on that tour but also felt like people on Cruise Critic should also know it wasn’t the only tour that went out.  

[ski ww]

I think HAL did every thing right, they did get back to the ship at no cost to the people. Think of the great stories they can tell about their Panama cruise, they'll remember that for years. Should HAL have offered more OBC/FCC???

[GeezerCouple]

21 hours ago, annnrl said:

Thank you to those who welcomed me for posting my first post.  In answer to where they stayed - They spent a few hours sleeping in a hotel each night. They had to put the same gross clothes back on after they showered. HAL did make sure they were fed. However, to those who think I am lying, here are a few pictures of the so called “paved road”.  HAL should have cancelled the excursion.  When HAL made the decision to leave 41 people behind, they should have been compensated and not just given a token.  

 

Thanks for posting a few photos.

I remember reading about this as it was happening, before it was known how it would end, where they'd meet up with the others again.

These images certainly bring it home!

 

This looks like quite a miserable experience.  And they didn't get to see the Canal.

No one was hurt?

 

And apropos another current thread elsewhere on CC, this is but one example of why one should bring along a "few extra" of any critical meds when off the ship.

Telling someone, "Oh, you can just purchase more at a local pharmacy!"  Uh, not always...

 

I do agree that there should/could have been more compensation.

Sure, "act of nature", etc.  But that can be done without accepting responsibility/liability/etc.

What good PR it would have been if HAL had been somewhat generous with these folks.  That can be done without accepting responsibility/liability/etc.

We used to have some vacation rentals (before our cruising interfered 😉 ).  If *anything* went wrong, we went out of our way to "over-compensate" our rental guests, and instead of being angry, they were always (!) very (!) appreciative of our "above and beyond" response...  It usually doesn't really take that much to take the "sting" away *and* let them know you are genuinely trying to make it right to the best of your ability, and to offer some meaningful compensation. 

And then one has very loyal, returning guests. 🙂 

 

There's a billboard (!?) I once saw, and it really stuck in my mind:

 

"THERE IS ONE THING PEOPLE REMEMBER MORE THAN GOOD SERVICE.

BAD SERVICE."

 

GC

[Florida_gal_50]

36 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

Thanks for posting a few photos.

I remember reading about this as it was happening, before it was known how it would end, where they'd meet up with the others again.

These images certainly bring it home!

 

This looks like quite a miserable experience.  And they didn't get to see the Canal.

No one was hurt?

 

And apropos another current thread elsewhere on CC, this is but one example of why one should bring along a "few extra" of any critical meds when off the ship.

Telling someone, "Oh, you can just purchase more at a local pharmacy!"  Uh, not always...

 

I do agree that there should/could have been more compensation.

Sure, "act of nature", etc.  But that can be done without accepting responsibility/liability/etc.

What good PR it would have been if HAL had been somewhat generous with these folks.  That can be done without accepting responsibility/liability/etc.

We used to have some vacation rentals (before our cruising interfered 😉 ).  If *anything* went wrong, we went out of our way to "over-compensate" our rental guests, and instead of being angry, they were always (!) very (!) appreciative of our "above and beyond" response...  It usually doesn't really take that much to take the "sting" away *and* let them know you are genuinely trying to make it right to the best of your ability, and to offer some meaningful compensation. 

And then one has very loyal, returning guests. 🙂 

 

There's a billboard (!?) I once saw, and it really stuck in my mind:

 

"THERE IS ONE THING PEOPLE REMEMBER MORE THAN GOOD SERVICE.

BAD SERVICE."

 

GC

Excellent post!  Stuff happens.  It how the issue gets dealt with.

[Guest ldtr]

4 hours ago, ski ww said:

I think HAL did every thing right, they did get back to the ship at no cost to the people. Think of the great stories they can tell about their Panama cruise, they'll remember that for years. Should HAL have offered more OBC/FCC???

Well they refunded the excursion, they gave 150 obc and 100 FCC. They did pick up all of the expenses getting them back to the ship. I guess one could argue that the amount should be the equivalent for prorated amount of their fare for the time they were off ship, which depending upon cabin would be a bit higher.

[Charles4515]

22 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Well they refunded the excursion, they gave 150 obc and 100 FCC. They did pick up all of the expenses getting them back to the ship. I guess one could argue that the amount should be the equivalent for prorated amount of their fare for the time they were off ship, which depending upon cabin would be a bit higher.

They could have been more generous with the FCC as it was 3 days. For good will not because they did anything wrong. Good will creates happy and return customers. 

[Homosassa]

12 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Well they refunded the excursion, they gave 150 obc and 100 FCC. They did pick up all of the expenses getting them back to the ship. I guess one could argue that the amount should be the equivalent for prorated amount of their fare for the time they were off ship, which depending upon cabin would be a bit higher.

Thanks to the poster that found the original thread.  I had looked for it, but couldn't pull it up.

 

The HAL Ticket Contract covers in full the limitations and liability for the cruise line and its contractors (including excursion operators).

 

The TC also states that for ship organized excursions, one is guaranteed to be  returned to the ship. It doesn't say that the ship will wait if the excursion is late, just that they will get you back to the ship.

 

And they certainly followed through in a first class manner from the details in the original thread.

 

I have attached the listing from the Marriott website for the hotel that the passengers were lodged in (Marriot by Jaco, according to a post). Not exactly a fleabag establishment.

 

And I noted that while at the hotel, clean and dry clothes were provided to the passengers  while their were cleaned and dried.  So not only did they have fresh clean clothes to wear, they also received another set (from the resort's gift shop?).

 

They were flown first class to Panama City (not economy, not business, FIRST class).

 

True, they had to drive cross country from Panama City to Colon, but I am willing to bet it was along the excursion route used for partial transit excursions.  It looks like stops were made along the way (the IMAX Panama Canal movie is part of a tour stop).

 

As far as being given prorated cruise compensation  for the days missed as suggested by some, I am willing to bet the money spent to return the passengers to the ship exceeded any daily fare paid by a passenger.

 

 

https://www.marriott.com/search/hotelQuickView.mi?propertyId=SJOLS&brandCode=MC&marshaCode=SJOLS

[annnrl]

22 hours ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

Thanks for posting a few photos.

I remember reading about this as it was happening, before it was known how it would end, where they'd meet up with the others again.

These images certainly bring it home!

 

This looks like quite a miserable experience.  And they didn't get to see the Canal.

No one was hurt?

 

And apropos another current thread elsewhere on CC, this is but one example of why one should bring along a "few extra" of any critical meds when off the ship.

Telling someone, "Oh, you can just purchase more at a local pharmacy!"  Uh, not always...

 

I do agree that there should/could have been more compensation.

Sure, "act of nature", etc.  But that can be done without accepting responsibility/liability/etc.

What good PR it would have been if HAL had been somewhat generous with these folks.  That can be done without accepting responsibility/liability/etc.

We used to have some vacation rentals (before our cruising interfered 😉 ).  If *anything* went wrong, we went out of our way to "over-compensate" our rental guests, and instead of being angry, they were always (!) very (!) appreciative of our "above and beyond" response...  It usually doesn't really take that much to take the "sting" away *and* let them know you are genuinely trying to make it right to the best of your ability, and to offer some meaningful compensation. 

And then one has very loyal, returning guests. 🙂 

 

There's a billboard (!?) I once saw, and it really stuck in my mind:

 

"THERE IS ONE THING PEOPLE REMEMBER MORE THAN GOOD SERVICE.

BAD SERVICE."

 

GC

That is very true. If you have a good cruise, you tell a few people.  If you have a bad cruise, you tell everyone.  We love to cruise (we just got back from our 40th cruise).  However, we won’t ever cruise on HAL again.  While we are grateful that my husband was eventually able to get back onboard.  HAL’s offer of $100 off his next cruise is absolutely ridiculous. Unless someone knows of a way to take a 21 day cruise for two people for $100.

[Florida_gal_50]

38 minutes ago, annnrl said:

That is very true. If you have a good cruise, you tell a few people.  If you have a bad cruise, you tell everyone.  We love to cruise (we just got back from our 40th cruise).  However, we won’t ever cruise on HAL again.  While we are grateful that my husband was eventually able to get back onboard.  HAL’s offer of $100 off his next cruise is absolutely ridiculous. Unless someone knows of a way to take a 21 day cruise for two people for $100.

Yeah, spend an hour in the casino.  That does it for a number of people on this board.

[Florida_gal_50]

8 minutes ago, annnrl said:

Wow!  The only clothes that my husband was offered were a pair of too small swim trunks (without pockets to put his wallet in), and a t-shirt that was also too small. Clothes from the gift shop were not offered. They offered to send his clothes out to be cleaned.  However, they could not guarantee that they would be back before they needed to leave and he didn’t want to take the chance, since everything was up in the air.  He attempted to wash and dry them in the hotel bathroom. I can assure you that I have NEVER smelled anything as bad as he smelled when he got back onboard. I suggest that you spend three days in wet mildew smelling clothes, and then tell us how you feel. The cabin steward brought him a bag, because all of his clothes, including his shoes had to be thrown away and they were immediately taken away. As far as everyone being flown first class and stopping to watch an IMAX movie, that is just BULL. I am done replying to this post as I refuse to waste anymore of my time. 

Thank you for confirming the info about the first class flight and movie. The things I hear make  me shake my head at what some come up with.  I appreciate the information you’ve shared.  It’s opened a few eyes I’m sure.

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, annnrl said:

That is very true. If you have a good cruise, you tell a few people.  If you have a bad cruise, you tell everyone.  We love to cruise (we just got back from our 40th cruise).  However, we won’t ever cruise on HAL again.  While we are grateful that my husband was eventually able to get back onboard.  HAL’s offer of $100 off his next cruise is absolutely ridiculous. Unless someone knows of a way to take a 21 day cruise for two people for $100.

I have been on over 60 cruises, only 5 on HAL  and nothing that was posted about the incident would make me hesitate about booking HAL again. What happened was an act of god and HAL handled the aftermath pretty well. I do agree that the $100 is on the stingy side, For good will they  should have given more.  $200 or $300 would have been a win. For 3 days affected out of 21 I don't think any cruise line would give you credit for a whole new cruise for something that was weather related. You leave out in your reply I quoted above that they gave you an immediate $150 OBC which to me was very positive. Thank you for posting as people should know that the ship might leave and that sometimes cruises don't go as palnned but I am not deterred from booking HAL by your account. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Charles4515

[TiogaCruiser]

1 hour ago, annnrl said:

That is very true. If you have a good cruise, you tell a few people.  If you have a bad cruise, you tell everyone.  We love to cruise (we just got back from our 40th cruise).  However, we won’t ever cruise on HAL again.  While we are grateful that my husband was eventually able to get back onboard.  HAL’s offer of $100 off his next cruise is absolutely ridiculous. Unless someone knows of a way to take a 21 day cruise for two people for $100.

Are you then expecting to get a 21 day cruise out of this? What are your expectations?

[Homosassa]

Just now, TiogaCruiser said:

Are you then expecting to get a 21 day cruise out of this? What are your expectations?

She has already stated in posts that were deleted that her altruistic  motive for starting this thread was to make sure that all passengers know a cruise ship will leave passengers behind f late returning from a ship sponsored excursion.

 

There is absolutely no thought of trying to receive compensation.

[Destiny0315]

On 2/17/2023 at 8:00 AM, annnrl said:

We put in a claim to the insurance company who just told us yesterday that they are only going to refund us $111 because he technically didn’t miss a port because the canal passage isn’t a port.

Thank you for deciding that "I'm done replying to this post". Obviously the trip wire for the OP to bring it all up again was the insurance companies response to their claim on this incident. A number of the things said now(4 months later)by the poster did not agree with what was said in first hand accounts at the time and by other posters in this current thread. Also the original thread talks of the Captain publicly announcing onboard that HAL was working with the PC people on a possible pick up of the stranded pax in the zone area. After negotiating with the Panamanian government for the Zaandam and Rotterdam to cross thru the PC during the infamous Covid cruise from March of 2020, I'm sure that HAL could/would have did that if the timing would have worked out. 

[Tampa Girl]

45 minutes ago, Homosassa said:

She has already stated in posts that were deleted that her altruistic  motive for starting this thread was to make sure that all passengers know a cruise ship will leave passengers behind f late returning from a ship sponsored excursion.

 

There is absolutely no thought of trying to receive compensation.

 

That was not what I remember from her posts.  She stated in one post that she was not blaming HAL for leaving the canal, but she considered the compensation to be insufficient.

[OlsSalt]

3 hours ago, annnrl said:

That is very true. If you have a good cruise, you tell a few people.  If you have a bad cruise, you tell everyone.  We love to cruise (we just got back from our 40th cruise).  However, we won’t ever cruise on HAL again.  While we are grateful that my husband was eventually able to get back onboard.  HAL’s offer of $100 off his next cruise is absolutely ridiculous. Unless someone knows of a way to take a 21 day cruise for two people for $100.

 

The storm was not HAL's fault.  They handled the consequences with more than generous and appropriate dispatch. Time to stop this continued shakedown.

[Essiesmom]

I would like to see a breakdown from HAL as to the cost for each of 41 guests to house, feed, and return them to the ship.  Probably more for each guest than the per diem cost of three cruise days.  And kudos for even being able to complete the arrangements.  EM

[lissie]

On 2/18/2023 at 7:10 AM, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

If their arrival in Panama was early in the day, it's possible that they got to Colon before the ship did. I haven't done a full transit in many years, but I've done three partials in recent years, and one of the annoying things about shorex is that you can end up in the port before the ship with not much to do (unless you want to go to the casino). I've done a tour to the new locks and the "historic former US base," which was a very slow and boring tour of what had been base housing, to give us something to do/look at between the locks visit and getting to the port.

 

We transited on a different line last year from Pacific to Caribbean - we didn't exit the canal until not long before dark - so I'm guessing about 6pm I think every ship would be similar as we were in a convoy through the old docks and no one could queue jump so to speak 

[sprockie]

I thank the poster for bring this to my attention.  I've always been under the impression that "they won't leave you if on a ship excursion" - part of the marketing strategy I suppose.  We did miss our ship in the early 2000 in St. Thomas.  It was due to very heavy traffic and and delays getting back into port.  We were scheduled to dock, but then had to tender at the last minute which changed the all aboard time.  Trip insurance covered the cost of the missed portion of the cruise and our expenses to fly back to Florida and wait for the ship to come in (3 days).  However, HAL washed their hands of us - were absolutely 0 help to us and initially refused to allow us back on the ship in Florida to pack up our cabin.  They were going to pack our stuff up and send it out to the pier.  Finally, after many calls shore to ship, they finally agreed to let us back on to pack up.  We had only our ship card and a Visa (in those days they told you to leave your passport on the ship).  We still sail HAL because we like the cruise line the most.  However, we do so knowing that they don't care about you whatsoever if something were to happen on shore - including a medical emergency or accident.

[Sea42]

38 minutes ago, sprockie said:

I thank the poster for bring this to my attention.  I've always been under the impression that "they won't leave you if on a ship excursion" - part of the marketing strategy I suppose.  We did miss our ship in the early 2000 in St. Thomas.  It was due to very heavy traffic and and delays getting back into port.  We were scheduled to dock, but then had to tender at the last minute which changed the all aboard time.  Trip insurance covered the cost of the missed portion of the cruise and our expenses to fly back to Florida and wait for the ship to come in (3 days).  However, HAL washed their hands of us - were absolutely 0 help to us and initially refused to allow us back on the ship in Florida to pack up our cabin.  They were going to pack our stuff up and send it out to the pier.  Finally, after many calls shore to ship, they finally agreed to let us back on to pack up.  We had only our ship card and a Visa (in those days they told you to leave your passport on the ship).  We still sail HAL because we like the cruise line the most.  However, we do so knowing that they don't care about you whatsoever if something were to happen on shore - including a medical emergency or accident.

Were you on a HAL excursion? Because if you were I would have thought HAL would pay for your flights.

[1of4]

This post and thread has been very enlightening. I too never doubted that the ship would wait and the posted photos of the conditions were shocking. If HAL left them behind to keep their scheduled spot I can understand. But then compensate the 41 people with part of the $600,000 “saved” by not waiting. As others have stated, good will goes a long way and in acknowledging the ordeal that these 41 people had to go through for 3 days as a result of HAL’s decision, I think, is called for but was not delivered. Reciting the costs HAL incurred in returning the 41 people to the ship is the expense of the decision to leave them behind and is of no concern to the 41 passengers. I’m very underwhelmed by HAL’s response and am amazed nobody was harmed by the conditions, missing medication or by not having clean underwear. 

[sprockie]

34 minutes ago, Sea42 said:

Were you on a HAL excursion? Because if you were I would have thought HAL would pay for your flights.

No, we were on our own.  

[3rdGenCunarder]

I see it as a case of good will vs responsibility. Neither HAL nor out tour operator was responsible for the weather. Tropical weather can be unpredictable. It rains in the rainforest--no I am not being snarky, just pointing out that it's a fact of life there, and tours run rain or shine. But this time the rain was heavier than expected. 

 

In the October thread at the time this happened, there was a statement that the tour company "stayed with them" and provided some clothes. So passengers had local assistance, probably until they got settled in the hotel. They were never abandoned or left to fend for themselves. When I saw "Marriott," my first thought, as others have said, was that this cost HAL more than the per diem cost for a passenger on board. 

 

The decision had to be made quickly before the ship got too far behind schedule. The captain doesn't make this call. There was probably a lot of back-and-forth with Corporate, Costa Rica, Panama, and the Canal Authority. Once the decision was made to leave, there was the additional scramble to set up care and transportation to the ship for the affected passengers. 

 

The $600,000 "saved" by leaving when they did, was not all part of the budget. $300,000 had been spent. The other $300,000 would have been extra costs, not in the budget. Divide that by 40 people--should they pay $7500 each to make the ship wait for them? 

 

Good will? Yes, I agree that $100 FCC isn't much. A few hundred more in FCC would have been nicer.  But I don't think it should be the value of 3 days of the cruise cost because the passengers were not abandoned. They were given food and shelter at a hotel. And although reports vary, at least some (most?) were given clean clothes.  

 

My first thought about OP's insurance was to wonder if they had "trip interruption." But most insurance payouts cover out-of-pocket costs due to circumstances like this. HAL paid for their care and accommodation, so even if the insurance had considered the canal a "port," there wouldn't have been much financial loss to be covered. (I'm going to read my travel insurance policy closely)

 

[Level six]

Well for everyone defending HAL in this case, saying that HAL did all they could.  Imagine if it were you in that man's position......would you feel they did all the things right and all that they could?  It is easy to comment when we were not the ones who were affected. 

If that were my husband, not only would he have been miserable, I would have too.  Face it, this ruined their cruise, no amount of nice hotel, first class plane can make up for being on the cruise you planned for along time being derailed like that, no amount.  They should have gotten more compensation or a make up cruise free.  Giving them a makeup cruise would not cost HAL a penny.  They have empty cabins all the time.  They should have given the OP the option of a few free cruise dates and they could have either taken it or not.  

[sprockie]

5 minutes ago, Level six said:

Well for everyone defending HAL in this case, saying that HAL did all they could.  Imagine if it were you in that man's position......would you feel they did all the things right and all that they could?  It is easy to comment when we were not the ones who were affected. 

If that were my husband, not only would he have been miserable, I would have too.  Face it, this ruined their cruise, no amount of nice hotel, first class plane can make up for being on the cruise you planned for along time being derailed like that, no amount.  They should have gotten more compensation or a make up cruise free.  Giving them a makeup cruise would not cost HAL a penny.  They have empty cabins all the time.  They should have given the OP the option of a few free cruise dates and they could have either taken it or not.  

Totally agree.  HAL should be responsible and accountable for all it's tour partners - just like a General Contractor is responsible for their subtrades.  HAL should have stepped up and compensated these people far more than they did.  After all, they give away (or practically give away) cruises to gamblers all the time.  The compensation should have been much more significant.