Carnival Cruise Line’s Fleet Expanding More Than Rivals in 2023

[lostsoulcruiser]

On 3/15/2023 at 4:58 AM, BoozinCroozin said:

This has to stop. From a shareholder perspective, they need to stop spending money, pay down debt, and get the stock price back to where it needs to be. I am not talking $50, but they need to get rid of $1B in debt every quarter plus interest. This comes to about $1.15B each quarter to cover principal and interest. This is no small feat, but necessary. Everywhere they can cut cost is fair game. 

I agree about Carnival's debt but: 

           Cruzing is just beginning to return to full swing which should lead to increase profitability and the ability to pay the debt particlularly since fares are up and ships are near capacity;

            Reading the article closely, Carnival Cruise line is adding two ships but only one new one.  One ship is a transfer from the sister line Costa Cruises while the other is a new built but most likely contracted for before or early into the pandemic. 

 

 

[Lee Cruiser]

55 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Actually at least two ports?

 

https://www.portcoral.com/

is well underway, and Royal has signed with Port of Magical.

https://amandala.com.bz/news/royal-caribbean-makes-deal-with-port-of-magical-belize/

 

Tendering to end (allegedly) by 2025.

When is port coral supposed to be completed?

[Lee Cruiser]

2 hours ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

Half Moon Cay is supposed to have a dock coming, haven't heard anything about it for awhile

Yes, I heard that at one time as well, but I'm guessing that would be a huge expenditure as well.  At a time when Carnival has no extra cash I wouldn't expect it anytime soon.

[mz-s]

1 minute ago, Lee Cruiser said:

Yes, I heard that at one time as well, but I'm guessing that would be a huge expenditure as well.  At a time when Carnival has no extra cash I wouldn't expect it anytime soon.

 

They have no cash but they also can't have their newest ships visit what is arguably their most popular destination, especially a destination where all the money spent ashore funnels through their coffers. To me it seems they have no choice but to build a dock.

[BlerkOne]

12 minutes ago, Lee Cruiser said:

When is port coral supposed to be completed?

2 years ago/

[tidecat]

On 3/14/2023 at 8:26 PM, mz-s said:

If you subtract the berths that Carnival jettisoned in response to the COVID shutdown, how many berths have they gained? Still a significant figure as Mardi Gras alone can accommodate nearly as many guests as Ecstasy, Sensation, and Fascination. And that still leaves Inspiration and Imagination's berths as well.

If we just count the "lower berths" (double occupancy):

 

Mardi Gras (5,282) > Fantasy (2,052) + Fascination (2,056) + 50% of Sensation (1,026)

Celebration (5,374) > Imagination (2,056) + Inspiration (2,056) + 50% of Sensation (1,026)

Luminosa (2,260) >  Ecstasy (2,052)

 

So Carnival was up over 500 lower berths at the end of 2022 despite having 3 fewer ships. Carnival Jubilee (5,374) and Carnival Venezia (4,208) are going to make for a substantial expansion in capacity compares to the roughly 75,000 lower berths has now. When Firenze joins by mid-2024, Carnival will be closer to 89,000 lower berths.

[Stick93]

Carnival is great at taking an older ship and makes a big announcement about the new ship arriving - Sunshine/Sunrise/Radiance/Luminoso/Venezia/Firenze - six ships 

 

The costa ships are not new, especially the Luminosa which is  20 years old. The Venezia/Firenze are also  not new builds and we have all yet to see them but prob are similar minus to Vista class, but with less Carnival identity. Great idea but not new modern ships like the other brands have put out. Not even close to an Oasis class ship which we have established is a 2009 build. 

 

I am sure if they could rebrand a ship and call it  “Carnival Crapolla”  - if it ran well and had births they would announce yet another new ship they could call it the Happy Crappy Fun ship -  The other brands are building and building for the future - Carnival is putting out fires and trying to stop the bleed as they are too heavy and weighed down. After the 3 excel ships are out they have nothing ordered and will prob cont to add ships from their other brands. I cannot wait for Carnival German style from Aida and Carnival UK style from P&O. 

[BoozinCroozin]

On 3/16/2023 at 7:53 AM, Joebucks said:

 

Limiting exec pay is a cool thing to say on the internet to show how much you hate the man. CEOs and other executives don't deserve millions. However, we never mention musicians, athletes, and other celebrities doing the same.

 

The truth is, limiting executive pay could be the most financially disastrous move to the company. Imagine trying to retract and retain the best talent by telling them they aren't going to be paid. They go elsewhere. No large company is having financial problems because executives are "paid too much" regardless of hip, woke, opinions. However, many companies are in poor financial situations because of poor leadership.

Execs do not get paid much at all. Their compensation is in bonus. Due to the price, they are receiving MASSIVE amounts of stock options. Yes, that gives them a huge incentive to get the stock price higher. However, they are protected if bankruptcy must happen. The rest of us aren't. $35B doesn't go down magically. With their 5% interest rate, that is $150M in interest ever quarter. They need to pay down $1.15B each quarter to manage debt. They aren't even turning a profit yet despite all the full bookings. 

[tidecat]

On 3/16/2023 at 1:04 PM, Saint Greg said:

 

All of the ships mentioned? Or two of them? Would you have guessed the two Vista class ships would be among the first to go? The Dream class ship hasn't even been sailing. Carnival owns all of them and can do what they want with them.

 

It would depend on the exact circumstances behind Costa failing to be profitable. If LNG fuel is cheaper in the US than in Europe, it is quite possible Toscana and Smeralda find their way to North America. These are also the last two themed after places in Italy, so it would represent an opportunity to extend the "Carnival Fun Italian Style" concept to some combination of Port Canaveral, Miami, and Galveston.

 

If it's just a case of a lack of demand, you start looking for ships that are coming up for drydock anyway.

[jimbo5544]

Whatever the drivers, the reality is Costa (specifically in the far east market), but true in Europe as well) ships are far under utilized. With the current debt situation, I am fine with their position.  Is taking on a Costa ship the same as adding a mammoth blunder of the seas?  Obviously not.  Which fits the Carnival model better (mammoth means no tender ports, more stringent ports of call and cruises where the ship is the destination)?  Carnival’s approach either by design or default works really well.  Add to the scenario that their ships reach ot way more places than they ever cruised to before and I am just fine where they are at.  Will there be a blip in age of ships between the big three?  No doubt but 10 years from not the pendulum will be swinging the other way.  I am pretty interested to see how the Costa Italian experience turns out. 

Edited March 18, 2023 by jimbo5544

[EngIceDave]

We have to start thinking about these small ports of call being overwhelmed and trampled to death by too many people.

 

Check out the documentary. We should be thinking about smaller ships, not larger.

 

[Purvis1231]

On 3/15/2023 at 4:58 AM, BoozinCroozin said:

This has to stop. From a shareholder perspective, they need to stop spending money, pay down debt, and get the stock price back to where it needs to be. I am not talking $50, but they need to get rid of $1B in debt every quarter plus interest. This comes to about $1.15B each quarter to cover principal and interest. This is no small feat, but necessary. Everywhere they can cut cost is fair game. 

 It is not clear even with the added ships if Carnival can recover from the deep hole they (we, since I am a 100 share owner). I hope recovery is possible but I have been saying for three years we may eventually have Royal Carnival. With this said Carnival does have a good product and I am hopeful but I did buy my stock at $30.00 a share so I am down. (Thankfully I have gotten dividends and onboard credit over the years to help offset my loss)

[Cruising_Addict]

On 3/15/2023 at 9:07 AM, mz-s said:

 

I mentioned this in another thread some time ago, but if you look at Carnival's fleet and RCCL's fleet - which looks more modern? In 2006, Carnival debuted the Liberty - a very nice ship, but it looks ancient compared to RCCL's 2006 entry the Oasis of the Seas. Nothing CCL can do will make the Liberty have anywhere near the amenities of the Oasis.

Royal’s ships are floating monstrosities. Some of us actually like cruise ships that still look like ships. I wouldn’t want Carnival to try to be like RCCL. 

[Guest BasicSailor]

54 minutes ago, Cruising_Addict said:

Royal’s ships are floating monstrosities.

JH said that years ago. He also stated Carnival would never go in that direction   Carnivals newest ships today make a mockery of those comments.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

56 minutes ago, Cruising_Addict said:

Royal’s ships are floating monstrosities. Some of us actually like cruise ships that still look like ships. I wouldn’t want Carnival to try to be like RCCL. 

 

There are some who like smaller ships, others who like larger ships, and then there's some who just like ships!

 

In general, I enjoy larger ships w/more to do. I love the Oasis class and am looking forward to seeing what the Icon is all about. Granted, they're big time over charging for suites.

 

Here's a shot a travel agent friend of mine took a couple of weeks ago as he was coming into Nassau on the (MSC) Meraviglia (and we were on the Mardi Gras). I thought the Mardi Gras was pretty large - until it was side by side with the Wonder. I would love to sail on both of those ships next to her (Wonder and Beyond).

 

 

  Tom

[staceyglow]

8 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

Execs do not get paid much at all. Their compensation is in bonus. Due to the price, they are receiving MASSIVE amounts of stock options. Yes, that gives them a huge incentive to get the stock price higher. However, they are protected if bankruptcy must happen. The rest of us aren't. $35B doesn't go down magically. With their 5% interest rate, that is $150M in interest ever quarter. They need to pay down $1.15B each quarter to manage debt. They aren't even turning a profit yet despite all the full bookings. 

By getting part of their pay in stock, they are taking the same risk as every other stockholder. And it is even harder for them to sell it than the average stockholder 1) for PR/political reasons, and 2)it affects the share price because it must be disclosed publicly. 

 

Personally, I am all for incentive-based compensation for execs as opposed to receiving a high salary just for showing up. 

 

[Joebucks]

8 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

Execs do not get paid much at all. Their compensation is in bonus. Due to the price, they are receiving MASSIVE amounts of stock options. Yes, that gives them a huge incentive to get the stock price higher. However, they are protected if bankruptcy must happen. The rest of us aren't. $35B doesn't go down magically. With their 5% interest rate, that is $150M in interest ever quarter. They need to pay down $1.15B each quarter to manage debt. They aren't even turning a profit yet despite all the full bookings. 

 

Is this now going with the also popular "golden parachute argument?" Many execs are given a set compensation package for accepting a role + stock. Again, no one ever calls the heads of celebrities or athletes who don't perform the way they are expected. Many execs have the majority of their pay in stock. If they tank that, they are hurting themselves. 

[mz-s]

54 minutes ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

There are some who like smaller ships, others who like larger ships, and then there's some who just like ships!

 

In general, I enjoy larger ships w/more to do. I love the Oasis class and am looking forward to seeing what the Icon is all about. Granted, they're big time over charging for suites.

 

Here's a shot a travel agent friend of mine took a couple of weeks ago as he was coming into Nassau on the (MSC) Meraviglia (and we were on the Mardi Gras). I thought the Mardi Gras was pretty large - until it was side by side with the Wonder. I would love to sail on both of those ships next to her (Wonder and Beyond).

 

 

  Tom

 

Guest capacity between those two ships is substantially the same, so which would you rather be on? Me - the larger one, even though it is larger - much more space per passenger! 

[jimbo5544]

4 hours ago, EngIceDave said:

We have to start thinking about these small ports of call being overwhelmed and trampled to death by too many people.

 

Check out the documentary. We should be thinking about smaller ships, not larger.

 

Look at the profitability of small ships to large.   

[EngIceDave]

1 hour ago, jimbo5544 said:

Look at the profitability of small ships to large.   

I know. It's more profitable, but we are slowly destroying these places

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

17 minutes ago, EngIceDave said:

I know. It's more profitable, but we are slowly destroying these places

 

Sadly, pretty much sounds like human modus operandi. 😔

[jimbo5544]

3 hours ago, EngIceDave said:

I know. It's more profitable, but we are slowly destroying these places

They get tons of money. They have choices also.  Everybody chooses their devil.  

[BoozinCroozin]

16 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

Is this now going with the also popular "golden parachute argument?" Many execs are given a set compensation package for accepting a role + stock. Again, no one ever calls the heads of celebrities or athletes who don't perform the way they are expected. Many execs have the majority of their pay in stock. If they tank that, they are hurting themselves. 

Celebrities and athletes are not part of a publicly traded company. The Execs have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to bring value to the investment. Extremely poor comparison.