Can I disembark before the final stop?

[Stockjock]

Looking at a cheapie short cruise from LA to Cabo (overnight) to San Diego, to LA.  I live in San Diego.

Was discussing this w/a buddy, who also lives in SD near the cruise terminal, actually.  We thought it would make sense to take a train or bus from SD to LA and then while the ship is in SD, maybe stay on the ship while everyone else is exploring San Diego, perhaps do breakfast and lunch, maybe even an early dinner since it's here until 10 pm, and then disembark before the ship leaves.  That would spare us the 3 hour ride from LA to SD the next morning.

I did ask Celebrity and got 2 answers.  The first answer said, "Yes, but you have to fill out a form in advance".  The second answer was, "Probably, but you would need to speak with Guest Services once you're on the ship.

Anyone know the answer?

[BettyCruiser]

No this would be in violation of PVSA, Celebrity would not allow it.

[cruisestitch]

Celebrity ??? forgot to consider the passenger vessel services act which does not allow your proposed itinerary. You would be boarding in one US city, Disembarking in a different US city without visiting the REQUIRED distant foreign port.  No port in Mexico qualifies as a distant foreign port.

Edited June 17, 2023 by cruisestitch

[cruiserchuck]

As mentioned above, this would be a violation of the PVSA, which prohibits foreign flagged vessels from transporting passengers between two different U.S. ports, unless the ship also stops at a distant foreign port.  Cabo is not a distant foreign port.  

[WestLakeGirl]

2 hours ago, Stockjock said:

Looking at a cheapie short cruise from LA to Cabo (overnight) to San Diego, to LA.  I live in San Diego.

Was discussing this w/a buddy, who also lives in SD near the cruise terminal, actually.  We thought it would make sense to take a train or bus from SD to LA and then while the ship is in SD, maybe stay on the ship while everyone else is exploring San Diego, perhaps do breakfast and lunch, maybe even an early dinner since it's here until 10 pm, and then disembark before the ship leaves.  That would spare us the 3 hour ride from LA to SD the next morning.

I did ask Celebrity and got 2 answers.  The first answer said, "Yes, but you have to fill out a form in advance".  The second answer was, "Probably, but you would need to speak with Guest Services once you're on the ship.

Anyone know the answer?

Yes, the answer is you cannot do that route.  If you tried to leave with your luggage in San Diego you would certainly be stopped. There is a large fine for violating the PVSA.  

[Stockjock]

First off, yes this information came directly from agents at Celebrity.

FWIW, the distance from Los Angeles to Cabo San Lucas is about 1200 miles by car and I think close to 1000 by sea.

I just called Celebrity for the third time and this agent repeated that it is possible.  They call it a downline disembarkation and there is a form that has to be submitted stating where you want to disembark and why.  If it's approved, you're good to go, and if not, you obviously are not good to go.

I'm not saying who is or is not correct, but this is the information that is being provided by Celebrity.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Stockjock

[prmssk]

21 minutes ago, Stockjock said:

First off, yes this information came directly from agents at Celebrity.

FWIW, the distance from Los Angeles to Cabo San Lucas is about 1200 miles by car and I think close to 1000 by sea.

I just called Celebrity for the third time and this agent repeated that it is possible.  They call it a downline disembarkation and there is a form that has to be submitted stating where you want to disembark and why.  If it's approved, you're good to go, and if not, you obviously are not good to go.

I'm not saying who is or is not correct, but this is the information that is being provided by Celebrity.

Distance doesn't matter when determining whether it is a distant foreign country.  Mexico doesn't count.  South America (like Columbia) and the ABC islands are considered distant foreign ports which is why one-way Panama Canal cruises between California and Florida always stop at one of those ports.

 

Downline disembarkation is very possible in a lot of countries.  I'm guessing the agents either aren't looking closely at your itinerary or still need training.  You can always submit the form and see what they say but I do not expect they will grant it due to the PVSA and if for some reason they do, they could revoke it when someone realizes the fines they would incur.

[cruisestitch]

The places that qualify are designated in the law.  You can look it up yourself.  No place in Mexico qualifies under the definition of a DISTANT foreign port, which is what you need for your proposed open jaw itinerary.

[WestLakeGirl]

38 minutes ago, Stockjock said:

First off, yes this information came directly from agents at Celebrity.

FWIW, the distance from Los Angeles to Cabo San Lucas is about 1200 miles by car and I think close to 1000 by sea.

I just called Celebrity for the third time and this agent repeated that it is possible.  They call it a downline disembarkation and there is a form that has to be submitted stating where you want to disembark and why.  If it's approved, you're good to go, and if not, you obviously are not good to go.

I'm not saying who is or is not correct, but this is the information that is being provided by Celebrity.

It’s going to cost you $65 per person to find out. That’s the fee for the paperwork involved in a downline disembarkation. It will be denied and you won’t get the $65 back.

[Alakegirl]

Stockjock, you must have felt unsure of the information the Celebrity agents were imparting, or you would not have come here. Sorry you din’t like the answers you are getting here, but the truth is that there are too many new telephone agents who haven’t received all the training they should have.  They look up “answers’ in their train g manuals, but don’t realize that there are specific features of the PVSA which must be taken into account.

 

if you ask the general question “can I leave the cruise before it is over,” the manual provides general answers about downline disembarkation.  But in this specific case, the downline disembarkation violates the PVSA, and the telephone agent may not know enough to look further into the question.

 

 

[tschwa2]

The fact that they say you have to wait for approval and aren't specific about what is needed for that approval makes me think. that saying you want to sightsee will be a no go but you have an emergency and need to get home, etc might be approved.    The training might specifically tell them that they can't provide reasons that may be disapproved and reason that might be approved.  There are circumstances that can be approved for this and there are ones that probably won't be approved.  

[WestLakeGirl]

12 minutes ago, tschwa2 said:

The fact that they say you have to wait for approval and aren't specific about what is needed for that approval makes me think. that saying you want to sightsee will be a no go but you have an emergency and need to get home, etc might be approved.    The training might specifically tell them that they can't provide reasons that may be disapproved and reason that might be approved.  There are circumstances that can be approved for this and there are ones that probably won't be approved.  

What’s a little fraud among friends?🙄

[markeb]

For the OP:

 

The (abbreviated) version of the answer, which is "NO", from CBP. I believe the fine mentioned is now around $875. 

 

https://help.cbp.gov/s/article/Article-23?language=en_US

 

The situation you're describing is exactly the situation prohibited in 46 U.S.C. § 55103 (b). If you do a global search for PVSA on Cruise Critic, you should find multiple threads where the CSRs of multiple cruise lines really didn't know that answer. And the booking systems will generally allow you to book an illegal cruise (Back to Back from one US port to another where the individual legs were legal) but it gets caught later on some sort of compliance audit (also numerous threads). And the crew onboard will definitely know the rules.

[markeb]

26 minutes ago, tschwa2 said:

The fact that they say you have to wait for approval and aren't specific about what is needed for that approval makes me think. that saying you want to sightsee will be a no go but you have an emergency and need to get home, etc might be approved.    The training might specifically tell them that they can't provide reasons that may be disapproved and reason that might be approved.  There are circumstances that can be approved for this and there are ones that probably won't be approved.  

 

Actually early disembarkation at a different US port for an emergency is still illegal. In the cases I've read about CBP used enforcement discretion and waived the fine. And somewhere in the 80 pages of contractual terms and conditions you agreed to when you bought your cruise I'm pretty sure you agreed to pay the fine as a pass through from the cruise line, since the fine is to the ship's operator.

[Stockjock]

1 hour ago, Alakegirl said:

Stockjock, you must have felt unsure of the information the Celebrity agents were imparting, or you would not have come here. Sorry you din’t like the answers you are getting here, but the truth is that there are too many new telephone agents who haven’t received all the training they should have.  They look up “answers’ in their train g manuals, but don’t realize that there are specific features of the PVSA which must be taken into account.

 

if you ask the general question “can I leave the cruise before it is over,” the manual provides general answers about downline disembarkation.  But in this specific case, the downline disembarkation violates the PVSA, and the telephone agent may not know enough to look further into the question.

 

 

Who said I didn't like the answers?  But obviously, I'm getting different answers.

[gold1953]

Not involving the USA but when we wanted to do this our port in question was the first entry point of the country after a foreign port and if approved we had to leave early morning. We wanted to stay on for the day. Cruise got  cancelled for covid .

[Mark_T]

6 hours ago, Stockjock said:

Who said I didn't like the answers?  But obviously, I'm getting different answers.

Celebrity reps are answering the general question 'Can I disembark before the end of the cruise' - and yes it is possible if you get approval. They are not giving you approval at this point, you have to fill out the form, pay the fee and then you will be told 'no'.

 

Others here are trying to save you the $65...

[russianmom]

9 hours ago, Stockjock said:

Who said I didn't like the answers?  But obviously, I'm getting different answers.

The different answers are because the reps are not properly trained and/or do not actually understand what you are asking.  Even if you try to "sneak" off the ship as others are suggesting once the ship realizes you're not coming back the fine will still be posted to your account. 

[WestLakeGirl]

Its hard to sneak off with  luggage

[cruiserchuck]

1 hour ago, WestLakeGirl said:

Its hard to sneak off with  luggage

Who needs luggage?

 

https://www.foxnews.com/lifestyle/airline-traveler-ducks-baggage-fees-doing-this-fishing-vest

[jelayne]

13 hours ago, WestLakeGirl said:

It’s going to cost you $65 per person to find out. That’s the fee for the paperwork involved in a downline disembarkation. It will be denied and you won’t get the $65 back.

We have only been charged $65 per application which covered both of us. 

[RichYak]

11 hours ago, Stockjock said:

Who said I didn't like the answers?  But obviously, I'm getting different answers.

The answers you are getting in this thread are all correct. 

[Jim_Iain]

To get the best answer I would contact the "Emergency Team" by phone at the contact in the following link.   That is the group I contacted when I requested and paid for the processing of my Down Line Disembarkation Request.  

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/content/dam/royal/countries/AU/faq's/Downline Request Form AUD.pdf

[PTC DAWG]

I don’t like disembarking when I am supposed to, much less early. 🙂

[Stockjock]

1 hour ago, PTC DAWG said:

I don’t like disembarking when I am supposed to, much less early. 🙂

Sounds like it's not going to happen, but in our case, just hopping off in San Diego would be more convenient than continuing on to Los Angeles and doing at least 3.5 hours back on a bus, plus time getting to the bus terminal.  In terms of the train, I think Union Station is about 30 miles from the San Pedro port, so doesn't sound like that's a great option either.

Not the end of the world if we can't do it.  But it would be nice if possible.  That said, one last good dinner on the ship isn't the worst thing in the world.

Edited June 18, 2023 by Stockjock