My thoughts on all the "cuts"

[NutsAboutGolf]

2 hours ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

What I find interesting is the no big deal attitude that some have when it comes to cruise line cuts/changes.  It's especially easy to say it's no bid deal  if the cut doesn't directly impact a particular cruising group.  But the fact is, a cut doesn't have to directly impact every passenger in order for it to impact the over all product.  I never ate dinner at the buffet but I wasn't happy when Celebrity cut down their dinner time offerings.  I rarely used my butler but I know people who did and it was a nice perk for those who had more butler needs than others.  I don't relish the bubbly they used to hand out on embarkation day but I do relish the symbolism of having someone greet me with a glass when I step on the ship.  I could go on but my point is, just because one isn't personally impacted by a change or a cut doesn't mean that others will or even should feel the same way.  We all cruise for different reasons and when a brand that we've come to know and love makes sweeping changes and cuts, it stings...IMO.

 

Thanks as you saved me from writing a novel as I was going to say the same thing...lol

[NutsAboutGolf]

The overall problem is whatever you book today will have cutbacks tomorrow so its the fear of the unknown.  When you sail in the future, E-Muster's could be gone and so now you're standing outside in 97f humid heat waiting 45mins for a selfish couple to appear.  You like trivia so go to the event only to be told its now a $35/person cover charge.  You're excited to have X's French onion soup but its no longer on the menu.  The question isn't whether X's current cuts bother you, it's which cuts would bother you?

 

Additionally, with some cutbacks, you may not think it affects you but because of unintended consequences they do.  For example, this past Jan or Feb the buffet was severely limited and one may think "who cares, I never eat dinner in the buffet", yet the ones who do eat there may not find the minimal offerings appealing and decide to eat at the MDR which now extends the MDR dining times for all

[Dolebludger]

PatandStu, considering the lines you have cruised, I think you will find Celebrity to be a step up, even though the product has been diminished from past levels. 
 

Georgia-Peaches, I agree with your “no big deal”rebuttal. Some may not care about cookies. But they may care big time about charging for beer from the mini fridge. And all should care that these things are part of a trend that, if continued, will reduce the status of Celebrity.

[Cowboyeyes3]

2 hours ago, kiwichick62 said:

Exactly!  And the thought that some bean counter thought it a good idea to experiment with charging for cookies and adding a gratuity on top of that shows how out of touch they are.  Higher prices for a reduced product then getting nickel and dined once you are aboard, not what I call relaxed luxury.

 

We booked our cruise for next May back in February.  What is on offer has eroded since then.  My concern is poor food choices in the MDR,  not good for our 13 night cruise.

 

if it a very noticeable change from our Celebrity cruise from 2019 it will be our last.

Completely agree.  Leaving in two weeks in an AQ cabin and was considering booking on board for next year but at the rate they are going by next year there may be no value left in AQ.

[Cowboyeyes3]

So disappointed with Celebrity.  I am guessing what is next is a $45.00 per day per cabin "resort fee" similar to what you see in Las Vegas and many hotels in other cities now.  This will be in addition to all the other fees and cutbacks that seem to appear every week.

[jaywoods678]

3 hours ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

What I find interesting is the no big deal attitude that some have when it comes to cruise line cuts/changes.  It's especially easy to say it's no bid deal  if the cut doesn't directly impact a particular cruising group.  But the fact is, a cut doesn't have to directly impact every passenger in order for it to impact the over all product.  I never ate dinner at the buffet but I wasn't happy when Celebrity cut down their dinner time offerings.  I rarely used my butler but I know people who did and it was a nice perk for those who had more butler needs than others.  I don't relish the bubbly they used to hand out on embarkation day but I do relish the symbolism of having someone greet me with a glass when I step on the ship.  I could go on but my point is, just because one isn't personally impacted by a change or a cut doesn't mean that others will or even should feel the same way.  We all cruise for different reasons and when a brand that we've come to know and love makes sweeping changes and cuts, it stings...IMO.

I completely agree with you. I just don't understand all the excuses. I am a huge fan of Holland America, but I will NEVER make excuses for them. They have also gone way downhill (maybe not quite as much as Celebrity, but that is subjective), and I was furious at them when they started trying to charge $10 for an extra entree in the MDR. The optics are bad, and it cheapens the brand. This was even a couple of years before the pandemic. Then a couple of years ago they started NOT giving free lobster on formal night. Even the budget lines like Carnival still do. Both HAL and Celebrity claim to be on the premium end of the mainstream lines, and I'm tired of all the cuts. Just raise the price. Nothing they're doing now is premium, anything but. Getting back to my point, I never defended them for this, even some of the other cuts that did not affect me. It downgrades the product and is completely unnecessary. There is very little distinction now from the "premium" lines and the mainstream lines. A few years ago there was a big distinction. I have no problem calling out my favorite lines, but some on here just refuse to no matter what. I just can't understand it. I can't understand the blind loyalty.

[phoenix_dream]

35 minutes ago, jaywoods678 said:

I completely agree with you. I just don't understand all the excuses. I am a huge fan of Holland America, but I will NEVER make excuses for them. They have also gone way downhill (maybe not quite as much as Celebrity, but that is subjective), and I was furious at them when they started trying to charge $10 for an extra entree in the MDR. The optics are bad, and it cheapens the brand. This was even a couple of years before the pandemic. Then a couple of years ago they started NOT giving free lobster on formal night. Even the budget lines like Carnival still do. Both HAL and Celebrity claim to be on the premium end of the mainstream lines, and I'm tired of all the cuts. Just raise the price. Nothing they're doing now is premium, anything but. Getting back to my point, I never defended them for this, even some of the other cuts that did not affect me. It downgrades the product and is completely unnecessary. There is very little distinction now from the "premium" lines and the mainstream lines. A few years ago there was a big distinction. I have no problem calling out my favorite lines, but some on here just refuse to no matter what. I just can't understand it. I can't understand the blind loyalty.

I think beyond the possible blind loyalty is the selfish attitude that if it's not something that bothers me then I don't care about it so therefore you shouldn't either, and if you do I'll make some snarky comment about you. But eventually there will be a cut of some kind that does bother everyone.  And more importantly,  it's a disturbing trend. Honestly these days I almost dread opening Cruise Critic or one of the Celebrity related FB pages because I'm honestly scared to see what's next! I currently have 7 cruises booked with Celebrity. I certainly don't expect perfection or everything to stay exactly the same but I also don't want to lose some of the things that have been important to me for 20+ years and 70+ cruises, especially at the price I paid!

[hubofhockey]

I noticed for our Japan cruise next May that the open cabins are the AQs. We book because on M class, there really aren’t a lot of specialty venues. Hate the fact that you have to buy all of the extras with it. 

[critic2023]

I agree. Almost all the cuts I've heard of so far don't impact me. I'm perfectly content in an inside, oceanview, or veranda cabin and would never spend the extra money on a higher class cabin, but if I did I'd be very annoyed that they were taking away the perks I paid $10k+ for. I've never grabbed a cookie at Al Bacio, but I think for the price we all pay - right down to the cheapest inside cabin booked during a sale - charging $2 for a cookie just looks bad and cheapens the brand. It's not enough to get me to go with another line yet, but it's a trend that concerns me.

[Spif Barwunkel]

Wow! The OP offers "My Thoughts on All the Cuts" and in the next 7 posts is admonished because of a "no big deal" attitude, being "blase", taking the "perfect" cruise and not yet experiencing the "Celebrity Death Temperature." And then is solicited to, with all of us, "stick together." I'll not speak for the OP, but I would assume that the "lemming" philosophy was retired long ago, assuming there ever was one.

 

I am in agreement with KKB. The changes, cuts, occasional bad food, extra charges and so on and so forth, have not yet gotten me to the point where I will carry a sign on the picket line. I will voice my concerns where I see fit, on the ship, on the post-cruise survey and by any other means I feel are necessary, including CC. I speak for me, not for anyone else. Whereas others are affected much more than me regarding Celebrity's indiscriminate indiscretions, they speak for themselves, not for me. Because we view the offenses at varying degrees of severity does not lessen the validity and the importance to all concerned. They are not that concerning to ME! Respect that. They are very concerning to YOU!  And in your concern, you have my approbation. 

 

[horseymike]

30 minutes ago, critic2023 said:

I agree. Almost all the cuts I've heard of so far don't impact me. I'm perfectly content in an inside, oceanview, or veranda cabin and would never spend the extra money on a higher class cabin, but if I did I'd be very annoyed that they were taking away the perks I paid $10k+ for. I've never grabbed a cookie at Al Bacio, but I think for the price we all pay - right down to the cheapest inside cabin booked during a sale - charging $2 for a cookie just looks bad and cheapens the brand. It's not enough to get me to go with another line yet, but it's a trend that concerns me.

How about the 20 % gratuity on something that should be included. I would call that adding insult to injury.

[Reesetiff]

15 hours ago, RichYak said:

No there isn't. Only non-alcoholic beverages are in the grab & go lounge fridges on my last 2 cruises.

I wonder when that changed.  Cruised on the Beyond July 2022 and the “grab and go” was available. That’s a bummer. 

[terrydtx]

17 hours ago, RichYak said:

No there isn't. Only non-alcoholic beverages are in the grab & go lounge fridges on my last 2 cruises.

That was true on the Equinox in June. The retreat concierge said it was changed to keep underage minors from getting beer when no one was in the Retreat lounge to supervise. I was also told that if I wanted a beer, they would get them for me from the cooler stock in the Lounge that is not available to the public.

Edited August 27, 2023 by terrydtx

[TeeRick]

17 hours ago, KKB said:

ALL lines are cutting costs.

Celebrity still has the best overall product of mainstream lines, imo.

 

Thanks for your comments.  I know it is your opinion, but how did you personally conclude that Celebrity still has the best overall product of the mainstream lines?  Based on what criteria?  Or cabin category? Ship? Price PP?  I used to agree with you and sailed Celebrity near exclusively (we are E+) but we are now booking other lines.  As our valued poster @terrydtx has stated elsewhere, my blinders are off too.

[Georgia_Peaches]

11 hours ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

Wow! The OP offers "My Thoughts on All the Cuts" and in the next 7 posts is admonished because of a "no big deal" attitude,

If my post was taken as an admonition of the OP then I must apologize to @KKB because that was not my intent. Like him, I was expressing an opinion on what I find interesting about positions such as his. I completely respect that sort of perspective but also know that if Celebrity continues on its current trajectory, the changes will impact everyone sooner or later.
 

@KKB please accept my sincere apology if you felt admonished. I am no keyboard warrior, I’m just a southern gal with a passion for cruising….😇. 

[terrydtx]

The cruising industry has been for years following the airline models for providing less for more.

Edited August 27, 2023 by terrydtx

[keesar]

4 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Thanks for your comments.  I know it is your opinion, but how did you personally conclude that Celebrity still has the best overall product of the mainstream lines?  Based on what criteria?  Or cabin category? Ship? Price PP?  I used to agree with you and sailed Celebrity near exclusively (we are E+) but we are now booking other lines.  As our valued poster @terrydtx has stated elsewhere, my blinders are off too.

 

There are many cruisers who do not consider other lines and continue to defend the Celebrity product.  We have those cruisers who continue to book the high end rooms exclusively.  I imagine these are high margin profits for the line.  One issue is that these cruisers are reluctant to try other lines because they have  perceived or real 'status' on Celebrity.  

 

This Summer, we did a family vacation  by renting a home on an island.  It was very relaxing and the cost-even including dining out- was significantly less than going on a cruise.  We had "free laundry" 😀 available to us and did not have to hear the marketing announcements by a captain. We eat real lobster and fresh seafood.    Glad we made that choice.

[BrendaJ]

I think just about every industry out there has been finding ways to cut costs and improve profit margins after having significant losses in the last few years.  Grocery prices are at an all-time high, new cars, when you can find one, are a fortune and everything travel related has gone up.

 

Every one of us just has to decide if, after any change to the offering, we are still getting value for our dollar, or whether that dollar would be better spent with another line, or another type of vacation altogether.

 

Our last few Celebrity cruises have been in suites on the new ships, when we were able to get a bargain by booking early, but at the current prices, we will not do it.   It would be cheaper to dine every night in a specialty restaurant, and frankly, as nice as the Retreat is, it’s not worth the extra money to us.   Celebrity’s verandah cabins are perfectly acceptable for us, the main dining room is perfectly fine for us, and so far, we’re still happy with what we’re getting for the price we pay.   We’ve travelled more with Azamara lately, and those who hate the nickel and dime-ing and don’t mind small ships with smaller scale entertainment and small cabins might be happier to try Azamara, although their IT and website woes are making a lot of loyal passengers very angry.

 

We travel primarily for the ports and although I like a nice cabin, it’s not the most important factor.   I’m not sure what cuts would have to happen for me to abandon Celebrity and Azamara, but there are lots of other lines out there (who are probably also making cuts).   At the end of the day, each of us has to decide when our cruises are not giving us enough value for our money.   So far, for us, cruises are still worth what we’re being charged.

[Georgia_Peaches]

9 minutes ago, keesar said:

One issue is that these cruisers are reluctant to try other lines because they have  perceived or real 'status' on Celebrity.  

My dad is one of those.  I've encouraged him to try other lines but his loyalty is with Princess through thick and thin.  There's nothing wrong with loyalty...as long as it goes both ways.

 

Celebrity still has a place in my line up but I'm definitely prone to shopping around when it comes time to book a cruise.

[terrydtx]

7 minutes ago, keesar said:

This Summer, we did a family vacation  by renting a home on an island.  It was very relaxing and the cost-even including dining out- was significantly less than going on a cruise.  We had "free laundry" 😀 available to us and did not have to hear the marketing announcements by a captain. We eat real lobster and fresh seafood.    Glad we made that choice.

We have been adding more and more land days to our cruises and are finding the land days to be more enjoyable than the cruising in the last couple of years. We are doing a 10 day driving trip of Australia after our Edge cruise in January and after pre booking hotels and a rental car our cost per day with tours and meals is significantly less than the Edge cruise will be. We are also doing 5 days in Santorini after our Apex cruise next month and our luxury suite on the Caldera cliffs with a private splash pool and butler is also less than our per day Sky Suite cost.

[MISTER 67]

17 hours ago, ChucktownSteve said:

Two of the things I learned while running my businesses was that price didn't matter if you had very strong customer service that elevated you above your competition and gave your customers things that had a high perceived value with a low out of pocket cost.  Celebrity I believe is doing the complete opposite.

 

They've been cutting the services and crew while charging for the low perceived value items like water, soft drinks and cookies among other items while at the same time rapidly increasing cruise fares.. The long term problem with that is once you chase off a customer, it takes a long time and a LOT of money to attract them back.  It's cheaper to keep a customer than to replace them.

 

Even manufactures understand that they  first reduce the amount in the package, then later raise the price before going through the cycle again without changing the size of the packaging to fool the naive consumer.

That happened to us with Holland America, we were very loyal to them as well as Princess but we had enough of HAL with too many cost cutting measures. It will be a long time before we give them another try and we will just cruise with Celebrity and Princess but if Celebrity continues with their constant nickel and diming while raising the cruise fare they will lose us also.

Edited August 27, 2023 by MISTER 67

[awhcruiser]

 

[RichYak]

42 minutes ago, Georgia_Peaches said:

If my post was taken as an admonition of the OP then I must apologize to @KKB because that was not my intent. Like him, I was expressing an opinion on what I find interesting about positions such as his. I completely respect that sort of perspective but also know that if Celebrity continues on its current trajectory, the changes will impact everyone sooner or later.
 

@KKB please accept my sincere apology if you felt admonished. I am no keyboard warrior, I’m just a southern gal with a passion for cruising….😇. 

Nonsense. You have nothing to apologize for. Don't let the holier-than-thou blowhards make you question yourself.

[xamsx]

35 minutes ago, keesar said:

 

This Summer, we did a family vacation  by renting a home on an island.  It was very relaxing and the cost-even including dining out- was significantly less than going on a cruise.  We had "free laundry" 😀 available to us and did not have to hear the marketing announcements by a captain. We eat real lobster and fresh seafood.    Glad we made that choice.

Where'd ya go? It sounds like a wonderful place. I am glad you had a good vacation.

[Guera53]

18 hours ago, horseymike said:

Being an admitted foodie, the quality of the included food is very important to me.

X had a stellar reputation for their INCLUDED cuisine for decades, I miss what it used to be.

There will always be things that mean more to different people, but at some point if things keep disappearing under the current fare structure some people will look for other options.

I second this. No one wants to go on a cruise and eat school lunch food in the MDR. Smaller portions and not as many choices is fine. Skimping quality though? And are you all telling me the common class doesn’t get included in afternoon tea? Princess includes all classes. Just that I’m using that word…classes…like a titanic caste system…is disturbing to me. And it’s the way I’m processing all this.