Two dogs in a stroller on Sillouette

[SheriffJoe]

I don't understand the big deal. Well behaved animals in the restaurant are far less of a problem than misbehaving children as far as I am concerned. As to the specific issue, service animals should be wearing their Service Animal harness/Overcoat.

 

My last cruise, a TA on RCCL, included one emotional support service animal among my fellow travelers. Lovely people, lovely dog, I am so happy that the benefit Snoopy provides them enables them to travel freely like "normal" people.

 

Service animal "overcoats" are NOT required and you see less and less of them these days.....

[ghstudio]

One thing to remember if you believe a dog is not a well trained service dog is that YOU and I are not bound by the ADA laws.....and YOU and I can ask the person what the dog is trained to do. I've done that a couple of times and humiliated some who were obviously cheating the system so that maybe they don't do it again. There are penalties for falsifying the need for a service animal. There are also penalties for allowing an animal into a restaurant who is not actually a service animal....however, celebrity (and everyone else) ignores that part of the law.

 

Perhaps more of us should help Celebrity since they seem to feel their hands are tied.

[3dog]

If you’re out in public and you see a “Service Dog” engaging in “should not” behaviors and it’s readily obvious the dog in question is just generally ill-mannered or not well-trained, ask to quietly speak to a manager. Let the manager know that while federal law does require them to permit access for all Service Dog teams, they’re not required to deal with dogs who aren’t ready for public access yet, and that federal law allows them to quietly ask the handler to remove the dog from the premise. Don’t challenge the team directly, but by letting the manager know federal law protects their business’ and patron’s rights to not be molested or subjected to poorly behaved Service Dogs, you’ll be paving the way towards better access rights for well-trained Service Dog teams.

 

When business owners know they have a recourse for dealing with Service Dogs who, due to their temperament, manners or lack of training, obviously shouldn’t be working in public, there’s less backlash from negative encounters with dogs showcasing unacceptable behavior. Many business owners fear excluding a poorly-behaved team due to the “must provide access, period, or you’re breaking the law” statements touted by those who drag their substandard dogs around with them in public, and with every instance their business, clients or sense of control suffers due to a bad experience, the more all teams, even well-trained and professional ones, will encounter access challenges and issues. By providing the manager with the real facts concerning Service Dog access rights, you’re empowering him or her to respond appropriately to those individuals and dogs who negatively impact or affect the Service Dog community as a whole and who cause major problems and issues for any and all real teams to follow in their wake.[/i]

 

Indeed! And this is good advice. As pointed out in the stuff I cut, a "service" animal must be under control of their handler, and if it is out of these bounds it is either performing it's job and probably should be investigated (a real service dog that is barking is alerting their handler or others that their handler needs assistance), or an animal that is out of control and not likely a service animal (and needs to be investigated in other ways).

 

Failure to control a service dog is allowance for it to be excluded by law!

 

IMO, it is sometimes hard to determine if the animal is providing a real service or if it is just a scam, but if it is behaving as prescribed by the ADA, I have no problem. While it should be working, I won't interfere but will ask the handler if I may interact with the animal before considering approaching. If it is barking, I will investigate and offer assistance. If it defecates in a place it shouldn't and the handler didn't appear to notice, I will alert the handler. If it is acting aggressive, I will not only alert the handler but I will alert the staff. If the handler does not control these bad behaviors as prescribed by the ADA, I will alert the management that this is grounds for exclusion by the ADA.

[Gracie115]

One thing to remember if you believe a dog is not a well trained service dog is that YOU and I are not bound by the ADA laws.....and YOU and I can ask the person what the dog is trained to do. I've done that a couple of times and humiliated some who were obviously cheating the system so that maybe they don't do it again. There are penalties for falsifying the need for a service animal. There are also penalties for allowing an animal into a restaurant who is not actually a service animal....however, celebrity (and everyone else) ignores that part of the law.

 

Perhaps more of us should help Celebrity since they seem to feel their hands are tied.

 

Interesting take on the situation.....more should do that.

 

One sign of a true, trained, service dog is that they DO INDEED behave better than most humans, young & old alike...... a barking, aggressive, biting, growling, non housetrained animal is certainly NOT a service dog no matter how much their owners want to claim they are.......and the point is not that we should "lighten up" and not be concerned about those who choose to cheat the system. The point is that true service dogs are wonderful and to cheapen their value with those that aren't runs the risks of laws being passed that will make it HARDER not EASIER for those true service animals to be accepted everywhere as well they should be.

[Jane2357]

I knew a young man once who had a service dog - a seeing eye dog for the blind. A true service dog who in a social setting like at the diner table - was silent under his master's table. There was never a snack given there.

 

If you tried to interact with his dog the young man would educate you to not engage the dog as it was working and working was where it's attention needed to stay.

 

Emotional support dogs are a scam pure and simple and this is from someone with two dogs who I refer to as "the boys" - shhh - don't tell my two grown sons that. ;) There are medication options for those with emotional issues and I don't believe for one minute that your need for Scruffy should guarantee you the right to take him every place - unlike a service dog.

 

So if I see you pushing your dog about in a stroller, having him on your lap in the MDR, letting everyone pet it - yeah I'm going to assume you are a joke. :cool:

Edited January 10, 2015 by Jane2357

[Caribbean Chris]

I knew a young man once who had a service dog - a seeing eye dog for the blind. A true service dog who in a social setting like at the diner table - was silent under his master's table. There was never a snack given there.

 

If you tried to interact with his dog the young man would educate you to not engage the dog as it was working and working was where it's attention needed to stay.

----

So if I see you pushing your dog about in a stroller, having him on your lap in the MDR, letting everyone pet it - yeah I'm going to assume you are a joke. :cool:

 

As a person partnered with a service dog (trained by the nonprofit Dogs for the Deaf) I wanted to add a little input. It's a situational issue and always the handler's decision on whether to allow petting.

 

I've learned that many blind people do not permit petting when the dog is on duty and in his harness because it is too distracting for the dog and handler. Off duty, they may/may not allow it - up to the handler.

 

(Hearing Dogs, by the way, are never off duty since they may need to alert in the middle if the night (smoke detector, door bell/knock, alarm clock for example) and are chosen for a particular temperament and specifically trained to work without waiting for a command.)

 

People with many disabilities may or may not allow petting because they can see what is transpiring and make a judgement call. I have no problem if I have time to chat, and the dog enjoys it. Obviously, the key point is to always ask before petting a service animal. (Or any animal.) And understand if the handler declines.

[cle-guy]

I understand the cruiselines' position of needing to comply with the letter and spirit of the ADA -- and their concerns about lawsuits, if they don't. But, one point about allowing non-trained/certified "therapy" or "support" dogs onboard could pose a potential problem for them. I thought of it when I read the post about the server in Michael's Club "upsetting" the lady's little dog. If an untrained and poorly supervised "therapy pet" bites another passenger (something you almost never hear of, with trained service dogs) -- what kind of liability could the cruiseline be facing?

 

I suspect that in a lawsuit the Crusie line would push the liability off to the dog owner, and likely win that argument. Sure the person being bitten would include X in the suit, but X with its dozens of on staff attorneys would quickly quell that suit by offering up the offending dog's owner. Generally in dog bite cases there are specific laws in place direct the liability to the dog owner, depending not he state and locality of the incident that provides the nexus.

[cle-guy]

I don't understand the big deal. Well behaved animals in the restaurant are far less of a problem than misbehaving children as far as I am concerned. As to the specific issue, service animals should be wearing their Service Animal harness/Overcoat.

 

It's my belief that but for actual "seeing eye dogs" most animals with the "overcoat" are part of the companies that provide the scammed endorsements. Usually those sites charge an extra $25 for the overcoat even.

[Caribbean Chris]

It's my belief that but for actual "seeing eye dogs" most animals with the "overcoat" are part of the companies that provide the scammed endorsements. Usually those sites charge an extra $25 for the overcoat even.

 

However, as a point of information, nonprofits like Canine Companions for Independence (blue coat) and Dogs for the Deaf (orange coat) provide the gear for their recipients' dogs to wear in public (if the dogs are certified by the organization for public access following the standards set by Assistance Dogs International.)

[cle-guy]

However, as a point of information, nonprofits like Canine Companions for Independence (blue coat) and Dogs for the Deaf (orange coat) provide the gear for their recipients' dogs to wear in public (if the dogs are certified by the organization for public access following the standards set by Assistance Dogs International.)

 

For $155 I can get an orange jacket and kit, or $142 a blue vest. http://usdogregistry.org

 

That's good information to have, but from an honest, practical standpoint, very few companies will have the depth of knowledge to know which vests are legit and which are not. Celebrity for example, can't even keep its reservations staff educated on which perks are combinable! :D Even if they were taught "blue vest" "orange vest" people can get reasonable facsimiles from lots of places.

 

That's part of the problem with the ADA act, that there is no single point of reference to document such things. And I understand that ADA is purpoesely broad and overreaching, in that it is intended to provide ACCESS, and thus there was little desire to add a bunch of restrictions within the laws.

[Lsimon]

... Well behaved animals in the restaurant are far less of a problem than misbehaving children as far as I am concerned....

.... As to the specific issue, service animals should be wearing their Service Animal harness/Overcoat. ...

 

I dislike the many suggestions here on cruise critic about how one problematic/offending issue is better than another problematic/offending issue in order to defend something that shouldn't be happening. I consider this nothing but nonsense. Besides, who is going to certify that an animal is well behaved? Don't tell me that is a legitimate service dog training agency because everyone here would agree that a legitimate service dog at work is just fine - it is the fakes that everyone has an issue with.

 

As for service dogs wearing the Service Animal Overcoat or Harness - do a quick search on Amazon for "service dog" there are literally thousands of products such as overcoats, harnesses, tags, certificates, ID cards, signs and other items for sale starting for as little as $3.00. And there is no evidence or proof required to purchase these things. I imagine that Amazon is just the tip of the iceberg as to where these things can be purchased or created by a fraudster.

 

...I joked about making him an emotional support dog. Joked? Seriously? I am so very upset and anxious about leaving my boy behind. I seriously contemplated getting him 'emotional dog' support status.....

Thank you for making the right decision. The sad part is that you wouldn't have had to have done anything to get him emotional dog status - you just would have had to decide to falsely represent him as one. I don't think you would even have needed to spend a few dollars to get some of the fake papers or other items discussed above although these might have been helpful.

Edited January 10, 2015 by Lsimon

[dkjretired]

Yes. Both New Jersey and Oregon.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus on the T-Mobile 4G LTE Network using Tapatalk Pro

 

I always warn people who are driving into Jersey when the Bermuda season starts, one good thing is that the gas tax is lower then the surrounding states.

[vulcan1971]

I always warn people who are driving into Jersey when the Bermuda season starts, one good thing is that the gas tax is lower then the surrounding states.

 

Yes, agreed! I used to bowl in a league in Maple Shade, NJ a few years ago and the cost of gas was 30-35 cents per gallon cheaper. I would fill up every Tuesday night, regardless of the tank level just to enjoy cheaper gas. Also, in the winter, it is nice to not have to get out of the car to pump gas when the temps are SOOOOO COLDDDDDDDD. :eek:

[ICANTWAITTOCRUISE]

Without any disrespect to those who truly require services dogs, we refer to our beagle as our service dog.

Ever since she was a little puppy she has slept under the covers and helps to keep us warm on cold nights. It really helps with our power bill in the winter.

As we are a little obsessed with her due to our empty nest status, (our children slept with us too at times when small, but we never called them service kids), we also joke frequently about it and tell her to get to work, that she can take breaks, and when she can get up, etc. Funny to us, maybe not that funny!

Upon reading this thread I actually googled what some were referring to about getting a service certificate. We would NEVER dream of taking her on a cruise, but I was curious. I was disappointed to find out that her act of helping regulate our body temperature on cold winter nights wouldn't qualify her. At least I don't think so.

But the funny thing is on my phone now I am constantly getting ads when I visit web pages for service dog certificates. I guess it is a really big thing!

In all honesty, I just don't agree with the need for the emotional support part and allowing them on cruise for that reason. Just my opinion of course.

[hulamoon]

It isn't up to me who does or doesn't have a disability, but I would rather see well trained dogs provide services rather than untrained, unsocialized dogs.

 

Often people do not realize the behavior of their dog at home will not be the same as their dog in public unless the dog is trained for it.

[dkjretired]

Yes, agreed! I used to bowl in a league in Maple Shade, NJ a few years ago and the cost of gas was 30-35 cents per gallon cheaper. I would fill up every Tuesday night, regardless of the tank level just to enjoy cheaper gas. Also, in the winter, it is nice to not have to get out of the car to pump gas when the temps are SOOOOO COLDDDDDDDD. :eek:

 

I live in PA now but always gas up when I go to my daughters in NJ, we try and figure out the best way to fill it up in Jersey.

[cle-guy]

I was visiting friends in NJ, and knew already of the full-serve gas.

 

I was trying to help clean kitchen from dinner, and couldn't find the wall switch for the garbage disposal. they informed me that in NJ, disposals have to be installed that have a safety mechanism that won't start until the cap is placed over it.

 

In my 44 years on this earthen, until that day, I have never even covered a disposal, and still have all my fingers....

 

So people in NJ can't be trusted to fill a car with gas NOR keep their hands out of the garbage disposal I guess.... LOL

[Gracie115]

I was visiting friends in NJ, and knew already of the full-serve gas.

 

I was trying to help clean kitchen from dinner, and couldn't find the wall switch for the garbage disposal. they informed me that in NJ, disposals have to be installed that have a safety mechanism that won't start until the cap is placed over it.

 

In my 44 years on this earthen, until that day, I have never even covered a disposal, and still have all my fingers....

 

So people in NJ can't be trusted to fill a car with gas NOR keep their hands out of the garbage disposal I guess.... LOL

 

best laugh all day.....

[Clydesmom7865]

If they are being pushed in a stroller, I cannot see how they could be considered "service" animals....ridiculous.

 

It is ridiculous and it is fraud. This is nothing more than a classic example of the over indulged, spoiled, self entitled attitude that has destroyed this country. Those two live beanie babies being pushed in a stroller are NOT service animals or support dogs. They are someone's pets who selfishly LIED about their role in order to bring them on a cruise. PERIOD.

 

I flew on a major airline last weekend and sat in the gate area with a woman with a ****zhu on a PILLOW. Yes you read that right a pillow. It had a bow in its special hairdo too. She went so far as to put in the special service dog vest she had bought on the internet. Someone questioned what "service" the dog performed. I loudly stated "helping her avoid paying a fee to fly her pet" which got some snickers and responses of agreement. Someone asked if it could be a service dog. I answered it was always possible but any dog that is sitting propped on a pillow like a deity certainly isn't performing any service I can see. "What about the vest?" We pulled up the exact same vest on Amazon and showed the picture to the inquisitor. Lying about the animal's purpose + vest on internet does not make you less of a liar.

 

Until we stand up to this garbage the frauds and the liars will continue to get away with it.

[Spender Nui]

Shame on Celebrity for not insisting on proper documentation.

[Mainiac II]

You know, I have sympathy to those who need these service animals, I do. But lost in all of this is what about people like me that have very severe allergies to dogs and cats. I have suffered on planes in the past, yes I keep my meds and mask handy, now I need to protect myself in the MD on a cruise. How am I gonna have dinner? Oh, yes I have to inconvenience myself for your convenience. Happens all the time. I cannot count the times where an out of control dog, won't "hurt you, he's just being friendly!" And I did get"hurt." Geesch!

Edited January 11, 2015 by Mainiac II

[cle-guy]

Shame on Celebrity for not insisting on proper documentation.

 

Yet again, reread this thread. Post #133 for example. The ADA Regulations actually PROHIBIT asking for documentation, and a company asking for it can be heavily fined for doing so.

Edited January 11, 2015 by cle-guy

[alexspepa]

You know, I have sympathy to those who need these service animals, I do. But lost in all of this is what about people like me that have very severe allergies to dogs and cats. I have suffered on planes in the past, yes I keep my meds and mask handy, now I need to protect myself in the MD on a cruise. How am I gonna have dinner? Oh, yes I have to inconvenience myself for your convenience. Happens all the time. I cannot count the times where an out of control dog, won't "hurt you, he's just being friendly!" And I did get"hurt." Geesch!

 

My sympothies for your allergies - but any owner of a Real Service Dog will understand you issues and work with you and the maitred' hostess, etc. to make sure everyone is satisfied and accommodated; just read Roz and Carribean Cris' blog if you want confirmation.

 

 

And if I and my dog are in an outside restaurant area that does allow pets, I will also willingly do the same...just ask! Your Allergy trumps my pet dog's right to enjoy a restaurant visit; just as does anyone's fear of dogs. Lucy understands that sometimes she has to wait in the car (as long as the temp is ok, if not we leave).

 

Maybe I misunderstood you, and if so I apologize, but Allergy vs Blindness or other disabling disease that truly requires a Service Animal?

 

I believe we can both agree that it is the fake Service Animals that are causing the issues here, not the Real Ones...

[GottaKnowWhen]

. . . Emotional support dogs are a scam pure and simple . . .

 

Wrong. A huge overgeneralization with no basis in fact.

[TeaBag]

Without any disrespect to those who truly require services dogs, we refer to our beagle as our service dog.

Ever since she was a little puppy she has slept under the covers and helps to keep us warm on cold nights. It really helps with our power bill in the winter.

As we are a little obsessed with her due to our empty nest status, (our children slept with us too at times when small, but we never called them service kids), we also joke frequently about it and tell her to get to work, that she can take breaks, and when she can get up, etc. Funny to us, maybe not that funny!

Upon reading this thread I actually googled what some were referring to about getting a service certificate. We would NEVER dream of taking her on a cruise, but I was curious. I was disappointed to find out that her act of helping regulate our body temperature on cold winter nights wouldn't qualify her. At least I don't think so.

But the funny thing is on my phone now I am constantly getting ads when I visit web pages for service dog certificates. I guess it is a really big thing!

In all honesty, I just don't agree with the need for the emotional support part and allowing them on cruise for that reason. Just my opinion of course.

 

 

Love your post! As you can see by my avatar, we have the same "service" dog. She is #6 for us. After #5 died, we noticed crumbs and bits of stuff under the table that were never there when she was alive. Here she was, cleaning the floor regularly as a service to us and we never even noticed it, let alone thanked her for it!! Celebrity could save on vacuuming the MDR. She could also be used for smelling food taken off the ship.:D Actually Customs does use Beagles in NZ for that.

 

Seriously, we were on Silhouette TA and there was one lovely Golden service dog on there. She made my day every time I saw her. She walked quietly beside her owner and lay beside her when in the MDR. The owner told us there was a special little place (off bounds to the public) on deck 5 for the dog to attend to her needs. She loved the crew and wagged her tail when she saw them. Now that was a true service dog.