Carnival Layoffs, making 200 US IT Employees train their replacements in India

[firemanbobswife]

Everyday life stuff is a job...to think otherwise is to be in la la land. Most of us "normal" folks would love to not have to cook, or clean our homes, or do laundry, the grind of shopping, commuting (sometimes 2 hours a day), shoveling snow or mowing lawns, being a chauffeur. Normal living isn't working 8 hours a day and then doing nothing...few of us can afford a housekeeper, a gardener, a nanny.

 

People who own their own businesses often work 12 hours a day seven days a week. And still have to do everyday life stuff. Same with farmers....ask a dairy farmer how many days off they get each week.

 

Everyone makes choices about "how to earn a living and how to support a family" and we shouldn't be using our personal barometers to judge whether people are being treated "wrongly" when their paying job takes up more time than a basic 9 to 5.

 

I'm sorry if I'm reading you incorrectly but I just get the feeling you are incensed by the working environments on a ship....and I just don't see it as a "bad" thing. Two different opinions.

 

I don't think working on a ship is bad and I am far from "incensed" about it. If I were would I still be cruising? The answer just in case you were wondering is no.

 

I believe it's harder than some think it is and I don't get why people are worried about how much they make when obviously they deserve every penny. And to try and compare it to a job here on land where people have days off, and for the most part can see their families isn't a fair comparison. Just because they have someone to cook their meals and wash their uniforms, doesn't mean they have an easier time. All that "normal" stuff back home still gets done by their significant other except minus the person that's on the ship.

 

So I will leave it at that so that this thread can get back on topic. Which I will add just because they are replacing the IT Dept (or portions thereof or whatever), doesn't change my intent to continue to cruise Carnival. It's business. Nothing more, nothing less. Happens all the time.

[sfaaa]

Good business operators are always looking for ways to reduce costs and pass a portion of the saving to consumers. Love Carnival's affordable cruise prices.

Edited December 20, 2016 by sfaaa

[caribbeanboy]

I always get an indian name, when I chat with someone from Amazon!

[mz-s]

When the market in which a company competes is saturated (and pleasure cruising is a saturated market, particularly at Carnival's price range) this is exactly what happens.

 

Costs go up - new ships, raises, fuel price increases, food price increases, Cheers program enhancements, etc etc. Consumers demand the cheapest fares possible from Carnival - how many times have you heard that if RCCL were the same price, cruiser X would choose RCCL instead?

 

When costs go up but the increased costs can't be passed onto the customer, the company must make cutbacks. No more chocolates on your pillow, no more free lobster on a 5 day cruise, no more in-house IT. Reduce other costs so that the costs they can't reduce are offset.

 

I seriously doubt the Carnival brand generates any real revenue for Carnival corporation. All the money comes from Cunard, Holland America, Princess, etc. Carnival is the loss-leader, the $1.99 gallon of milk at the CVS or the $199 50-inch TV on black friday.

 

I think what we will see over the next decade is Carnival will split. The fantasy class and older vessels will become the new Carnival (possibly with a rebrand, but more than likely they'll just keep them all under the same brand but with different focuses) and essentially be a ferry to Nassau - perpetual booze cruises to get as much money out of the old ships as they can. The newer vessels will become what Carnival was 10 years ago, with prices to match. Midnight buffets, chocolates on your pillow, real shows, tablecloths, etc.

[Thorncroft]

he newer vessels will become what Carnival was 10 years ago, with prices to match. Midnight buffets, chocolates on your pillow, real shows, tablecloths, etc.

 

I doubt that. They have Princess for that.

[jimbo5544]

When the market in which a company competes is saturated (and pleasure cruising is a saturated market, particularly at Carnival's price range) this is exactly what happens.

 

 

 

Costs go up - new ships, raises, fuel price increases, food price increases, Cheers program enhancements, etc etc. Consumers demand the cheapest fares possible from Carnival - how many times have you heard that if RCCL were the same price, cruiser X would choose RCCL instead?

 

 

 

When costs go up but the increased costs can't be passed onto the customer, the company must make cutbacks. No more chocolates on your pillow, no more free lobster on a 5 day cruise, no more in-house IT. Reduce other costs so that the costs they can't reduce are offset.

 

 

 

I seriously doubt the Carnival brand generates any real revenue for Carnival corporation. All the money comes from Cunard, Holland America, Princess, etc. Carnival is the loss-leader, the $1.99 gallon of milk at the CVS or the $199 50-inch TV on black friday.

 

 

 

I think what we will see over the next decade is Carnival will split. The fantasy class and older vessels will become the new Carnival (possibly with a rebrand, but more than likely they'll just keep them all under the same brand but with different focuses) and essentially be a ferry to Nassau - perpetual booze cruises to get as much money out of the old ships as they can. The newer vessels will become what Carnival was 10 years ago, with prices to match. Midnight buffets, chocolates on your pillow, real shows, tablecloths, etc.

 

 

Might want to check out the latest quarterly statement for the corp on profitability that basically trashes your loss leader stance. I would be willing to wager it is about 180 degrees off on your profit theory.

 

Lastly, if RCCL and CCL were the same price (they mostly are close now....but that is a different topic for a different day0.......I would choose Carnival.

 

Not sure what any of this has to do with IT outsourcing....

 

 

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Edited December 21, 2016 by jimbo5544

[mz-s]

Might want to check out the latest quarterly statement for the corp on profitability that basically trashes your loss leader stance. I would be willing to wager it is about 180 degrees off on your profit theory.

 

Lastly, if RCCL and CCL were the same price (they mostly are close now....but that is a different topic for a different day0.......I would choose Carnival.

 

Not sure what any of this has to do with IT outsourcing....

 

 

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I looked through it but did not see any breakdown on revenues per brand. Entirely possible I completely overlooked it, though.

 

I'm happy to be wrong if that is the case.

 

My point was that Carnival cannot really raise prices due to competition - so they cut costs - IT outsourcing is one way to do that without immediate customer blowback. While it's nice that you would choose a more expensive Carnival cruise over a cheaper (or same price) RCCL cruise, I doubt many others would do so as well outside of an enthusiast site like Cruise Critic.

[nealstuber]

Costs go up - new ships, raises, fuel price increases, food price increases, Cheers program enhancements, etc etc.etc.

 

 

As others have noted, you are seriously misinformed. The cost you've cited have not gone up. While building bigger ships costs more, the cost per berth has been basically flat for Carnival, especially when the finance cost is considered. CCL's per capita wages barely keep pace with inflation, fuel prices are near 15 year lows and even if every person on cheers consumed 15 drinks every day, their average cost per drink would still be significantly more than it would have been 10 years ago.

 

Carnival is a business, and this is what they are supposed to do. But we're consumers and that means we don't have to make it easy for them.

 

And there is as much chance of Carnival establishing the "classic line" described in your post as there is of GM starting up a new brand composed of Chevettes and Citations.

 

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Edited December 21, 2016 by nealstuber

[tidecat]

MSC is also making moves into the North American market, which may be a greater drag on pricing than the perpetual war between Carnival and Royal Caribbean. MSC is clearly willing to buy market share given how their cruises are priced.

 

 

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[Badfinger]

Even if CapGemini can deliver 40% savings to Carnival, that most likely saves Carnival $12 Million annually. There are more than 754 Million shares outstanding of the company. Carnival may be able to squeeze out an additional 2 cents per share from this, but that's a rounding error on a stock trading above $50 per share.

 

 

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You forgot about the P/E ratio.........it would be more than a rounding error.

[Badfinger]

This is news that is just now starting to pick up steam,

 

Carnival is forcing 200 US based IT Employees to sign a contract that will terminate their employment and will convert them to temporary workers of a company called Capgemini so they can train their replacements in India.

 

Carnival has stated that they are guaranteeing 6 months of employment but the contact they are being forced to sign makes no reassurance that they will have a job for long since they will be "at will" employees.

 

 

All the responses just make me laugh....very easy to get all righteous behind that keyboard...until it comes time to enter your credit card for that more expensive cruise on another cruise line...then back to Carnival you will come.

[JJ Sefton]

I looked through it but did not see any breakdown on revenues per brand. Entirely possible I completely overlooked it, though.

 

I'm happy to be wrong if that is the case.

 

Check out cruisemarketwatch.com for brand revenue breakdown.

[Cr2zCr8zy]

Guys this a done deal! Nothing new here.

 

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[nealstuber]

http://freebeacon.com/politics/schumer-fires-media-center-staff-days-before-the-holidays/

 

Big corporations are not the only entities that fires people in December.

 

In both cases, there were obvious performance issues.At least CCL gave their employees a 6 month plan.

 

 

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Edited December 21, 2016 by nealstuber

[Wolfpack Cruiser]

I for one refuse to support companies that are offshoring jobs from American workers. I have just reached Platinum level with Carnival but I will not sail on them again until they reverse this decision. You can write this off all you want as a business decision, but the livelihood of American workers are at stake here. If you can't stand up for the Carnival workers now, who do you think is going to stand up next time when it your job on the line? I urge all of you to boycott Carnival, including all of their brands, until bring these workers back. Respond here on this blog as well as to Carnival directly so that they can see what they are losing. It worked, to some extent, with Disney, and it will work with Carnival. I'm willing to pay a little more on another cruise line or reduce the amount of cruising I do in order to help my neighbor.

[sfaaa]

I support all cruise lines that give me a good cruise deal. How they run their business is something for their management and shareholders to decide and not my concern.

[cruise pup]

MSC is also making moves into the North American market, which may be a greater drag on pricing than the perpetual war between Carnival and Royal Caribbean. MSC is clearly willing to buy market share given how their cruises are priced.

 

 

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Having taken an MSC Caribbean cruise I can safely say that RCCL and Carnival have nothing to worry about. The rep who attended our CC meeting asked us to give them some time to work out the bugs. That was 2 1/2 years ago and judging by the reviews things haven't improved. How much time do they need? I even cancelled a dirt cheap cruise and forfeited some deposit money (not much) because I wouldn't do another cruiss with them.

[ray98]

I for one refuse to support companies that are offshoring jobs from American workers. I have just reached Platinum level with Carnival but I will not sail on them again until they reverse this decision. You can write this off all you want as a business decision, but the livelihood of American workers are at stake here. If you can't stand up for the Carnival workers now, who do you think is going to stand up next time when it your job on the line? I urge all of you to boycott Carnival, including all of their brands, until bring these workers back. Respond here on this blog as well as to Carnival directly so that they can see what they are losing. It worked, to some extent, with Disney, and it will work with Carnival. I'm willing to pay a little more on another cruise line or reduce the amount of cruising I do in order to help my neighbor.

 

LOL....there isn't a cruise line in business that hasn't moved jobs around. They are all global companies. Actually, their entire business practice revolves around non-American workers as their ship are virtually 100% staffed with foreigners.

 

Where is your outrage that your cabin attendant, bartender, waiter, ship officer or even captain are anything but American? Those jobs were the first version of outsourcing.

[deborahjo]

Most workers on land also get a day or two or three off a week and get to see their families at some point too. Not so much for the workers on the ship. They never get a full day off and it will be months before they see their family.

 

I would rather have the option of going home and doing nothing whether it's on land or on the ship. They're not confined to a "tiny room" aboard the ship just in case you didn't know :rolleyes:.

 

 

I have gone 2 to 3 years without seeing my parents. Not military either.

 

 

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[jimbo5544]

I for one refuse to support companies that are offshoring jobs from American workers. I have just reached Platinum level with Carnival but I will not sail on them again until they reverse this decision. You can write this off all you want as a business decision, but the livelihood of American workers are at stake here. If you can't stand up for the Carnival workers now, who do you think is going to stand up next time when it your job on the line? I urge all of you to boycott Carnival, including all of their brands, until bring these workers back. Respond here on this blog as well as to Carnival directly so that they can see what they are losing. It worked, to some extent, with Disney, and it will work with Carnival. I'm willing to pay a little more on another cruise line or reduce the amount of cruising I do in order to help my neighbor.

 

 

Might want to check out the other cruise lines....and airlines.....and car manufacturers......and food companies.....and computer companies.....before making rash high and noble decisions....or not. I cannot think of one major company that does not do this in one form or fashion depending on where you draw a line in the sand. That said, it is totally your decision to do whatever you want....happy sailing (or not as the case may be).

 

 

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[AHS123]

I have gone 2 to 3 years without seeing my parents.

 

It's a tough call when choosing to visit one's parents or go on a cruise but at least you have the choice, crew do not.

[jimbo5544]

I looked through it but did not see any breakdown on revenues per brand. Entirely possible I completely overlooked it, though.

 

 

 

I'm happy to be wrong if that is the case.

 

 

 

My point was that Carnival cannot really raise prices due to competition - so they cut costs - IT outsourcing is one way to do that without immediate customer blowback. While it's nice that you would choose a more expensive Carnival cruise over a cheaper (or same price) RCCL cruise, I doubt many others would do so as well outside of an enthusiast site like Cruise Critic.

 

 

Without going into lots of minutiae, the link my fiend posts more than dramatizes the sheer size and customer base that the Carnival brand (mainly American) has (mainly Caribbean) and how they dominate the market. Their ability to raise prices (their main effort has been to stabilize pricing - which they have pretty much done) is much more a factor of what the market will support. My overall point is they are by long shot a very stable company and certainly not a loss leader.

 

 

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Edited December 21, 2016 by jimbo5544

[firemanbobswife]

I have gone 2 to 3 years without seeing my parents. Not military either.

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As have I. So? Parents aren't the only family for many people.

Edited December 21, 2016 by firemanbobswife

[blondietink]

The language barrier to Ireland?

 

Yes, the mainland Irish accent was very difficult to understand. Very different than the Irish accents we hear here near the Canadian border that have been Americanized.

[pms4104]

Random question here: if Carnival Corp is an American company, why do my CCL dividends come from Panama?

 

A lot of interesting comments here, particularly some of the angst about American companies, jobs, products ... most, I would venture, typed on foreign-made keyboards, cellphones, tablets. So, as consumers, we are supporting such outsourcing while also wringing our hands over a couple of hundred jobs.

 

It may not always be American companies outsourcing/offshoring jobs ... sometimes worker demands lead to such actions. So, some responsibility may be attributed to the workforce. Why, for instance, has our garment and textile business left for foreign shores? How soon will there be more robotics "working" in Wendys, McDonald's and similar?

 

A little food for thought.

Edited December 22, 2016 by pms4104