Dog on ship

[grapau27]

Unfortunately, Judge Judy is not reality, as the parties have signed and agreement regarding the results of the "case".

 

It is not really political correctness that is the problem, it is our court system that allows anyone to sue anyone at any time for any reason. As I said, the businesses cannot or do not want to spend the money to defend their perfectly legal actions in a suit brought by someone in the wrong. This is the same reason our health care system is so totally out of whack, because the malpractice insurance that doctors and hospitals need to protect them against many frivolous lawsuits is so expensive. Sorry, shouldn't get too political here, but this is a problem brought about by both parties.

I understand.

In the UK we constantly get pestered by no win no fee companies etc.

Our NHS is free so although it still happens it is rare that anyone sues them.

[SRF]

Yes.

All these types of agressive dogs are supposed to have nuzzles on their faces to stop them biting people in the UK.

 

What about aggressive people?

 

The most dangerous thing about my Uncle's pit bull, was him sitting your your foot when you scratched him

 

Most "aggressive" dogs are poorly trained (owner's fault) or trained to be be aggressive (owner's fault).

[SRF]

I don't believe that the dogs have "unpredictable natures", but I do believe that people who have strong, powerful dogs should follow the concept that all pets owners should follow, and that is that the dog is not a human, should not be treated as a human, and should be trained from puppyhood that humans, all humans, are the pack leaders and must be obeyed. This is the owner's responsibility, and the owner's responsibility to train all members of the family, even small children, how to treat dogs properly and to show leadership to the dog. We have a dog, not a pit bull, but a rescue mutt, who tends towards insecurity, and who has been known to nip at unfamiliar (to the dog) people, almost invariably those people who do not follow our instructions on how to meet an unfamiliar dog: no look, no touch, no eye contact (thank you Cesar Milan).

 

Here, here. (y)

[SRF]

We always watched the dog whisperer programme on tv.

It was a very interesting series.

 

Funny thing, Dog Whisperer and Nanny 911 are EXACTLY the same show.

 

Dogs (or kids) are out of control, as no adult is in charge.

 

We had Akitas for many years. Biggest cuddly bears ever. But also training, and they knew who was boss in the house.

[debcruising]

I've read a story about "Airplane Passengers Fall in Love With Emotional Support Duck Accompanying Owner With PTSD" see below.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Lifestyle/airplane-passengers-fall-love-emotional-support-duck-accompanying/story?id=42878860

[grapau27]

What about aggressive people?

 

The most dangerous thing about my Uncle's pit bull, was him sitting your your foot when you scratched him

 

Most "aggressive" dogs are poorly trained (owner's fault) or trained to be be aggressive (owner's fault).

I agree with you.

In Europe pit bulls are the must have aggressive dog of thugs to intimidate people.

We had a docile Dalmatian for 13 years.

It is the lock jaw of pit bulls that is a big worry.

[Domino D]

Thanks, Bella is from North Georgia. She doesn't have a typical westie coat. Very soft fur. Tends to tangle and mat

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Forums mobile app

That explains how people are so drawn to her. She is a Georgia girl.

 

Sent from my SM-G920P using Forums mobile app

[Domino D]

All the businesses are afraid of being sued by Fluffys owner for discrimination. You, the business, can not even ask for paperwork. All that can be asked is "What service is your dog, ferret, monkey trained to do?" Therefore allowing a large loophole for abusers making it harder for true service animals and their owners.

 

Agree, this is the problem that needs fixing. With no clear way to verify a true service animal, thousands of employees to train, and those employees (like all of us) propensity for snap judgement, there is no way for a business to risk denying boarding. If you truly see "Fluffy" or their owner doing some of the things that people are claiming, tell a manager. The animal should at that point be restricted, and probably blocked from future cruises.

 

We have had animals listed as service animals removed from hotels for being disruptive, without any repercussions. If a dog soils an area of the hotel, barks too much, lunges at people, takes food off a plate, growls, etc. We warn the owner, if the behavior repeats the animal has to be removed.

 

I understand peoples skepticism of some of the animals seen, and personally believe you are correct. However, as a businessman nothing about size of dog, strollers, sweaters, etc. would cause me to challenge a guest claim their dog was not a service animal. As Dancer pointed out, businesses are very limited in screening, and the risk associated with making a mistake is high.

 

There are provisions for behavior and disruption of business. That is where the cruise line could take action. I don't know that the examples noted in the thread weren't dealt with. If they found the dog or its owner's behavior unacceptable, it would be dealt with in private. I also don't know what action they would take. I don't think they would remove the people or dog from the cruise.

 

I have seen two dogs on cruises. 1 was a small dog with a family. One of the younger children was clearly autistic. They were a couple cabins from us. The dog was small, and at times I did see them carry it. I never heard the dog make a peep, nor saw it do anything close to a behavior issue. 2. Was a small lap dog traveling with an older woman. The dog had several outfits. The woman in question was a Pinacle. If she says the dog is a service animal, Royal is unlikely to question the claim. Again, I never saw the dog do anything problematic.

 

I understand your opinion, but if you might be called to court with your home and savings on the line, if Fluffy turns out to be a service dog, are you that certain.

 

Again, get it right Fluffy doesn't sail, get it wrong Muti Million dollar fine and lawsuit, bad publicity, expensive PR campaign to fix image, probably a high ranking corporate staff member is fired, and additional expense in retaining employees.

 

Possible problems for corporate VS Fluffy?

Despite anyone's opinion, Fluffy sails.

 

Why should Royal fix this? What's in it for them? FYI, it isn't liability in a dog attack, they have none.

 

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[ONECRUISER]

Funny thing, Dog Whisperer and Nanny 911 are EXACTLY the same show.

 

Dogs (or kids) are out of control, as no adult is in charge.

 

We had Akitas for many years. Biggest cuddly bears ever. But also training, and they knew who was boss in the house.

Never thought of those 2 shows that way but now realize you are correct. Same-Same. But hard to keep muzzle on a kid. Maybe I should use a shock collar...

[scootersdad]

The issue with this is that it could potentially violate the Americans With Disabilities Act for truly disabled people and their service dogs.

 

KEY WORDS " truly disabled "

[CarolinaGirl2010]

There were a couple of small dogs on Oasis of the Seas a couple of weeks back. We were wondering also.

[AlanLW9]

I agree with you.

In Europe pit bulls are the must have aggressive dog of thugs to intimidate people.

We had a docile Dalmatian for 13 years.

It is the lock jaw of pit bulls that is a big worry.

 

 

1) MYTH: American Pit Bull Terriers lock their jaws. ... There is absolutely no evidence for the existence of any kind of “locking mechanism” unique to the structure of the jaw and/or teeth of the American Pit Bull Terrier.

2) Dalmations rank higher than American Pit Bull terriers in terms of agressiveness.

Edited December 20, 2017 by AlanLW9

[MJC]

And then there are those of us with dog allergies that can end in an Asthma attack, depending on the type of dog. Whose needs should get preference?

 

Yes, my husband is extremely allergic and I am concerned for him what with dogs in hotels and cruise cabins. He can even react to people who own dogs who have too much dander on their clothes.

[grapau27]

1) MYTH: American Pit Bull Terriers lock their jaws. ... There is absolutely no evidence for the existence of any kind of “locking mechanism” unique to the structure of the jaw and/or teeth of the American Pit Bull Terrier.

2) Dalmations rank higher than American Pit Bull terriers in terms of agressiveness.

We are from England and the pit bull breeds here have a lock jaw mechanism.

[AlanLW9]

We are from England and the pit bull breeds here have a lock jaw mechanism.

 

So very happy to enlighten you then! There is absolutely no difference between the breeds no matter where in the world you are. :'):loudcry:

 

That’s laughable.

[HHFamily]

We are from England and the pit bull breeds here have a lock jaw mechanism.

 

This widely held belief comes from the fact that when a Pit Bull Terrier, and similar Bully breeds bite onto an object they are often very determined to hang on as long as possible.

 

 

From K9 Magazine:

 

 

Q) Do Pit Bulls have locking jaws?

 

A) No. Their jaw is anatomically no different to other dogs. There is no ‘locking mechanism’ and they do not have this infamous ability lock their jaws when biting. In fact, the Pit Bull does not even possess the most powerful bite in the domestic dog world. Here’s some light reading, further dispelling the Pit Bull locking jaw myth:

Dr. Brisbin, as well as the other experts, testified that

pit bulls do not have locking jaws

. Based on actual dog dissections and measurement of their skulls, the evidence demonstrated that pit bull jaw muscles and bone structure are the same as other similarly sized dogs.

No evidence was presented to demonstrate that a pit bull’s bite is any stronger than other dogs of its size and build

. He stated that, contrary to information relied upon and perpetuated by earlier case law and law review articles, assertions that a pit bull can bite with a “force of 2,000 pounds per square inch” have absolutely no basis in fact or scientific proof. The testing of dog bite strength has never been done, and would be difficult if not impossible to perform.

 

In fact, a locking jaw in any dog is considered a cause for veterinary intervention. The notion that certain breeds such as Pit Bulls can perform this function is plain wrong.

[LMaxwell]

There's no reason for a pit bull to be on a ship.

[rcclmiami]

I was on a t/a when a woman brought 2 dogs for “stress”. Problem was, RCCL only approved 1. She even brought them into the windjammer. We never saw any documentation on the dogs (I e service animal).

[John&LaLa]

Link to a story about a woman bitten by an emotional support dog at Orlando Airport

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/woman-says-she-was-bitten-by-emotional-support-dog-in-jetblue-check-in-line/ar-BBEWJUY?li=BBnbfcL

[YoHoHo]

So very happy to enlighten you then! There is absolutely no difference between the breeds no matter where in the world you are. :'):loudcry:

 

That’s laughable.

OT I know. my apologies.

 

No laughing here.

 

 

Why continue to breed these? For what end? Because I can? Because I can handle them? because I am smart, kind, understand dig, because I'm tough, ...

 

They can be lovely animals. Some are abused, some are gentle, some are ??? I've known a few. But so what. There are already too many dogs (and way too many cats) so why even do this?

 

http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/montreal-woman-55-killed-in-apparent-dog-attack

"As I approached I noticed it was playing with a large object,”Benzenati told the Montreal Gazette Thursday. “Then I saw hair. I approached further and that’s when I saw the body, the body of a woman, inert, motionless.

...

Neighbors dog... hole in fence.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/virginia-woman-killed-pitbulls-grisly-mauling-article-1.3703517

A 22 year-old Virginia woman was mauled to death by her dogs while walking them in the woods near her home, authorities said Friday

 

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2016/07/16/pit-bull-attack-detroit/87204668/

A 71-year-old southwest Detroit woman was attacked and killed by her own pit bull dog Saturday night, police said.

These were on page one results if a search. Were they all abused animals? Does it matter to those who have been horribly mauled to death?

Edited December 21, 2017 by YoHoHo

[LMaxwell]

Let's face it, a massive amount of self-entitled people have to have their fur babies so they rode the coat tails of those dealt a more unfortunate hand in life and have a genuine need for service animals. The world revolves around them and, by God, if they want to let their pet pit bull eat your kid while lying straight faced about the need to have that pit bull for some completely fabricated "problem", that is what they will do. And for those that genuinely need a service animal, respect the animal and others, and do things the right ways, you end up getting lumped in with the guys pushing 4 pound dogs through supermarkets in pink strollers. companies may not be able to confront the fakers, but individual people can. It's a real shame that so many have ruined something so necessary for others to lead a decent daily life.

[YoHoHo]

Let's face it, a massive amount of self-entitled people have to have their fur babies so they rode the coat tails of those dealt a more unfortunate hand in life and have a genuine need for service animals. The world revolves around them and, by God, if they want to let their pet pit bull eat your kid while lying straight faced about the need to have that pit bull for some completely fabricated "problem", that is what they will do. And for those that genuinely need a service animal, respect the animal and others, and do things the right ways, you end up getting lumped in with the guys pushing 4 pound dogsk through supermarkets in pink strollers. companies may not be able to confront the fakers, but individual people can. It's a real shame that so many have ruined something so necessary for others to lead a decent daily life.

Thanks for getting us back on topic.

 

 

Not quite how I'd put it but I do agree. The takers are taking and with no hesitation, no shame, no moral compass. We've failed in teaching morality, the lessons of legend and myth. This is where human kind came from, not FB, not the googler, not the Instantanything. We're failing.

Edited December 21, 2017 by YoHoHo

[SRF]

Never thought of those 2 shows that way but now realize you are correct. Same-Same. But hard to keep muzzle on a kid. Maybe I should use a shock collar...

 

That is why all my kids have had 4 feet, fur, and bark. :D

 

1) Easier to housebreak

2) Don't have to send them to college

3) They don't want to borrow your car.

 

And best :

 

4) When they get to be teenagers, you can (and should) spay/neuter them. :D

[SRF]

OT I know. my apologies.

 

No laughing here.

 

 

Why continue to breed these? For what end? Because I can? Because I can handle them? because I am smart, kind, understand dig, because I'm tough, ...

 

They can be lovely animals. Some are abused, some are gentle, some are ??? I've known a few. But so what. There are already too many dogs (and way too many cats) so why even do this?

 

http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/montreal-woman-55-killed-in-apparent-dog-attack

"As I approached I noticed it was playing with a large object,”Benzenati told the Montreal Gazette Thursday. “Then I saw hair. I approached further and that’s when I saw the body, the body of a woman, inert, motionless.

...

Neighbors dog... hole in fence.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/virginia-woman-killed-pitbulls-grisly-mauling-article-1.3703517

A 22 year-old Virginia woman was mauled to death by her dogs while walking them in the woods near her home, authorities said Friday

 

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2016/07/16/pit-bull-attack-detroit/87204668/

A 71-year-old southwest Detroit woman was attacked and killed by her own pit bull dog Saturday night, police said.

These were on page one results if a search. Were they all abused animals? Does it matter to those who have been horribly mauled to death?

 

Millions of pit bulls, a few outlyer cases.

 

More reports of PEOPLE harming other people.

 

I worry about PEOPLE more than any dogs.

[grapau27]

So very happy to enlighten you then! There is absolutely no difference between the breeds no matter where in the world you are. :'):loudcry:

 

That’s laughable.

Thank you for your respectful response!

I have just googled pit bull and was amazed that apparently the lock jaw is a myth.

The fact i dislike pit bulls is the reason i never googled information about them before.