Gratuity Removal Too Easy?

[Rdclfamily]

Because workers on a cruise ship are captive. If you decide not to eat at the MDR, a waiter is still there regardless. They can't just leave and go to another side gig to earn a living. So that service is there for your benefit whether you use it or not. Just like there is service in the Windjammer whether you are there or not. Which is why tips are spread around accordingly. Cruise ships are unique, and that's why there is a set daily amount based on the number of passengers sailing that is distributed equitably to the crew.

 

The set gratuities is not for the "wait staff" - its for "dining services" - big difference.

 

You can expect negative comments because you aren't as clever as you think you are. Now you know. ;)

 

I understand your point. Just think we could all be kinder.

[Rdclfamily]

:) :) :)

[LMaxwell]

It is so much easier to prepay your gratuities. And then tip your stateroom attendant and dining room staff extra in cash for outstanding service above and beyond.

 

Sadly, what used to be included is being chipped away and now passes for "above and beyond". Bringing ice upon request is not above and beyond, it's part of the standard offering you pay for. Servicing the room twice a day is not above and beyond, it is part of the standard offering. By BNBR's standard the staff is there and the service is included in price charged whether you use them or not. So should one feel guilty for using a service they have paid for, or tricked into thinking basics now pass for "above and beyond"?

[ChrisdK1]

Because workers on a cruise ship are captive. If you decide not to eat at the MDR, a waiter is still there regardless. They can't just leave and go to another side gig to earn a living. So that service is there for your benefit whether you use it or not. Just like there is service in the Windjammer whether you are there or not. Which is why tips are spread around accordingly. Cruise ships are unique, and that's why there is a set daily amount based on the number of passengers sailing that is distributed equitably to the crew.

 

The set gratuities is not for the "wait staff" - its for "dining services" - big difference.

 

You can expect negative comments because you aren't as clever as you think you are. Now you know. ;)

I appreciate the information found on this thread...I was unaware of the way gratuities are distributed. A bit misleading, because I've seen where it says your $13.50 is divided - so much for waiter, so much for assistant waiter, so much for room steward etc. It makes it seem like you are paying a set amount for each type of service, so it made sense to me that if I'm not using a specific service that I shouldn't have to pay what is essentially a 'service' charge. Now that I've read everyone's input, I have a better understanding. Isn't that what these boards are for? And I was expecting negative comments not because I think I'm clever, but I feel terrible for the nasty remarks that have been made to rcdlfamily for suggesting that the gratuities add up for a family of 4. I think this forum is great for educating people, especially those of us who aren't able to cruise often, but would expect the nastiness to be left out.

[oldguysandgalls]

Back in the 50's, 60's and 70's, on the last day/night on board ship we gave 'envelopes' with our tips to our dining room stewards and cabin stewards.

 

It was a festive bitter-sweet evening, enjoying our last meal, saying good bye to our table mates and especially the crew, who made our journey so enjoyable. (sadly even back then some passengers skipped dinner just to avoid the "envelopes''. )

 

With the introduction of the automatic Daily Service Gratuities, the 'personal gratuity' has taken a back-seat even though we still give out envelopes in addition to the Daily Service Gratuities.

 

Alas, times have changed and with it a less gracious time....(insert sad face)

Edited November 15, 2017 by oldguysandgalls

[leono1]

The grand prize goes to the first person who can state why the USA has the type of tipping policy it does for restaurant servers. Below minimum wage pay and make money in tips. 3...2...1...Go!

 

 

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love the tipping threads on here :D

but ive just read through 11 pages to see the answer to this and still havent??

[Mjawaverunner]

I usually book a deal that the TA or cruise line that include paid gratuities. Save me from dealing with it and I give additional cash tips to deserving crew members

 

 

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[CP3o]

 

And....as far as the cruise staff not receiving their tips, I have to ask WHY they would sign up again and again, contract after contract if this was not true.

 

I'll take a guess.

 

Maybe because Rccl and other lines account for the non-tippers to get the wages up to competitve for cruise work. Maybe if everyone tipped it would only be $8/day pp. But every now and the daily tips go up, partially for increased cost of living, presumably, but also so that on average the amount they get is fair. 11.50 to 12.50 to 13.50 etc. The payments of the tippers need to go up to account for "shrinkage".

 

People may feel more comfortable stiffing the crew b/c assume never see them or fellow cruisers again. Maybe in home town where people know them they are different.

 

If not included, too big a culture shift for Americans, I would at least like RCCL to ask some questions about why removing and maybe spend 2 minutes educating them on how this is primary source of income, not gravy. Maybe nothing changes or maybe something they say sinks in and the pax don't remove tips next time.

 

RCCL could do that much for the staff w/o offending customers. They can be polite but corporate should know if there is a real gripe that has them upset enough to dock the pay of people that served them all week.

[Dennis#1]

I'll take a guess.

 

 

 

Maybe because Rccl and other lines account for the non-tippers to get the wages up to competitve for cruise work. Maybe if everyone tipped it would only be $8/day pp. But every now and the daily tips go up, partially for increased cost of living, presumably, but also so that on average the amount they get is fair. 11.50 to 12.50 to 13.50 etc. The payments of the tippers need to go up to account for "shrinkage".

 

 

 

People may feel more comfortable stiffing the crew b/c assume never see them or fellow cruisers again. Maybe in home town where people know them they are different.

 

 

 

If not included, too big a culture shift for Americans, I would at least like RCCL to ask some questions about why removing and maybe spend 2 minutes educating them on how this is primary source of income, not gravy. Maybe nothing changes or maybe something they say sinks in and the pax don't remove tips next time.

 

 

 

RCCL could do that much for the staff w/o offending customers. They can be polite but corporate should know if there is a real gripe that has them upset enough to dock the pay of people that served them all week.

 

 

 

Thanks for your post. Very well said.

 

 

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[LisaAtlCruiser]

I would be in favor of RCI making the tips all part of the cruise price and do away with the daily charge. That way I don't have to read any more threads about removing tips!

[rukkian]

I would be in favor of RCI making the tips all part of the cruise price and do away with the daily charge. That way I don't have to read any more threads about removing tips!

 

I can see that, but then people would be coming in and asking how much they should tip since it is no longer optional and I figure the same threads would happen.

 

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[LMaxwell]

I'll take a guess.

 

Maybe because Rccl and other lines account for the non-tippers to get the wages up to competitve for cruise work. Maybe if everyone tipped it would only be $8/day pp. But every now and the daily tips go up, partially for increased cost of living, presumably, but also so that on average the amount they get is fair. 11.50 to 12.50 to 13.50 etc. The payments of the tippers need to go up to account for "shrinkage".

 

People may feel more comfortable stiffing the crew b/c assume never see them or fellow cruisers again. Maybe in home town where people know them they are different.

 

If not included, too big a culture shift for Americans, I would at least like RCCL to ask some questions about why removing and maybe spend 2 minutes educating them on how this is primary source of income, not gravy. Maybe nothing changes or maybe something they say sinks in and the pax don't remove tips next time.

 

RCCL could do that much for the staff w/o offending customers. They can be polite but corporate should know if there is a real gripe that has them upset enough to dock the pay of people that served them all week.

 

Completely backwards from reality

[molsonschooner]

I would be in favor of RCI making the tips all part of the cruise price and do away with the daily charge. That way I don't have to read any more threads about removing tips!

what would you read then?

[davekathy]

I would be in favor of RCI making the tips all part of the cruise price and do away with the daily charge. That way I don't have to read any more threads about removing tips!

 

You don't have to, you choose to.

[HicksRA]

I suspect the main reason the gratuity system is set up this way is related to profit margin.

Let’s say each pax pays an average of $100 per cruise. At the end of the year, that’s many millions of dollars company wide and is many millions that is not considered taxable revenue to RCCI. It goes straight to the staff and they’re left to pay the taxes on it.

So, in essence, they’re letting their customers pay a portion of the staff’s wages and lessening their tax bill at the same time.

I always prepay my grats and do so willingly as i just accept that’s the way it’s done.

But since they categorize this “fee” as a voluntary gratuity, they have to allow patrons to withdraw it.

[GUT2407]

I suspect the main reason the gratuity system is set up this way is related to profit margin.

Let’s say each pax pays an average of $100 per cruise. At the end of the year, that’s many millions of dollars company wide and is many millions that is not considered taxable revenue to RCCI. It goes straight to the staff and they’re left to pay the taxes on it.

So, in essence, they’re letting their customers pay a portion of the staff’s wages and lessening their tax bill at the same time.

I always prepay my grats and do so willingly as i just accept that’s the way it’s done.

 

 

Nope, because any wages are tax deductible.

 

In some jurisdictions there may be payroll tax, but that doesn’t seem to apply with most (maybe all) countries these ships are registered in.

[oldguysandgalls]

When I was still in the workforce, I used to receive a yearly bonus as a thank you in sincere appreciation of my performance.

 

Now, when I watch the crew going about their duties day after day and often in multiple and different assignments, I hope the crew will be 'appreciated' and rewarded for their hard work by every passenger not only during a cruise, but especially..... at the end of a cruise.

[LisaAtlCruiser]

You don't have to, you choose to.

 

Actually I choose not to :-)

[DirtyDawg]

Nope, because any wages are tax deductible.

 

In some jurisdictions there may be payroll tax, but that doesn’t seem to apply with most (maybe all) countries these ships are registered in.

 

Additionally, the cruise industry does not pay corporate income taxes by and large.

 

In 2016, Royal's pretax income was $1.3 Billion, on which they paid $20.1 Million in corporate income tax. Carnival Corp.'s pretax income that year was $2.8 Billion dollars, on which they paid $49 Million in income tax. That equates to effective tax rates of 1.5% and 1.8%. By comparison the Corporate tax rate in the U.S. is currently 39.1% (State and Federal) with an effective rate in the mid to high 20% range.

 

This is from Note 12 of Royal's 2016 10K (i.e. Annual Report)

 

"Note12. Income Taxes We are subject to corporate income taxes in countries where wehave operations or subsidiaries. We and the majority of our ship-operating andvessel-owning subsidiaries are currently exempt from U.S. corporate tax on U.S.source income from the international operation of ships pursuant to Section 883of the Internal Revenue Code."

There may be lots of reasons cruise lines might not want to include gratuities in the base fare but any effect on corporate income taxes is not one of them.

And as Gut24407 points out any revenue generated by including the gratuities in the base fare is offset by the deduction of the wages , or former gratuities, paid out to the crew.

[Thorben-Hendrik]

Grats are not rolled into the fare because they make far more money from people overtipping then loose out on people removing the grats.

The guilt trip works perfect...so why change it!:halo:

A lot of European cruise lines have chnaged to a grats free system - as that works better for them.

 

RCI has so many Yanks overtipping they would be stupid to change the current system!

Also every country has different rules that is why they have to be removable for some pax from some countries...would be very hard for GS to know all that and keep up to date...

They are included in the Aussie fares but they still can be removed once on-board!;p

[Biker19]

They are included in the Aussie fares but they still can be removed once on-board!;p

I have yet to see that reported.

[oldguysandgalls]

Passenger:

"I want to remove the Daily Service Charge"

 

Guest Services:

" No problem, but you do realise there's a one time 'removal' service charge for that"?

 

Passenger:

"For what"?!

 

Guest Services:

"For one pair of oars"

 

Passenger:

"I don't need a pair of oars"!!

 

Guest Services:

" You'll need the oars to row ashore...."

Edited November 16, 2017 by oldguysandgalls

[BNBR]

Sadly, what used to be included is being chipped away and now passes for "above and beyond". Bringing ice upon request is not above and beyond, it's part of the standard offering you pay for. Servicing the room twice a day is not above and beyond, it is part of the standard offering. By BNBR's standard the staff is there and the service is included in price charged whether you use them or not. So should one feel guilty for using a service they have paid for, or tricked into thinking basics now pass for "above and beyond"?

 

That's not "my standard" - that's a fact. Royal Caribbean charges a set daily fee for the services you have available to use at your leisure. You'll notice on the Royal tipping policy, "I didn't really use that service very much" is not a mentioned reason to reduce the daily gratuity. It's "in the unlikely event service was not satisfactory."

 

 

I would also agree that additional tips, above and beyond the included gratuity, would generally be given to employees that have gone above and beyond standard level of service.

[BNBR]

love the tipping threads on here :D

but ive just read through 11 pages to see the answer to this and still havent??

 

It was mentioned. Prohibition. Did it need a full explanation? I'm sure it's somewhere on the internet, Wikipedia maybe.

[BNBR]

Grats are not rolled into the fare because they make far more money from people overtipping then loose out on people removing the grats.

The guilt trip works perfect...so why change it!:halo:

A lot of European cruise lines have chnaged to a grats free system - as that works better for them.

 

RCI has so many Yanks overtipping they would be stupid to change the current system!

Also every country has different rules that is why they have to be removable for some pax from some countries...would be very hard for GS to know all that and keep up to date...

They are included in the Aussie fares but they still can be removed once on-board!;p

 

There is no such thing as "over tipping." And it says a lot about your personality and culture that you think the workers are worth less than a "Yank" feels they are.