Butler in Haven and grats

[TrinaLC]

23 hours ago, BNBR said:

 

Good info.  We have been strongly considering a Yacht Club booking.

MSC yacht club is a true butler experience. Have found NCL butlers to also be glorified food runners and some not even that. Our last experience we had to fight to get regular ice deliveries. 

[havenfan]

23 hours ago, BNBR said:

 

The issue is that the butler doesn't actually do THAT much on NCL. Not like a Genie on Royal.  The Genie will hold front row seats for you at a show, walk you on and off the ship, handle all of your reservations, bring all the booze you want (no extra charge), etc.  They do so much more.  Things that you would think a "butler" would do.  So when I call them a glorified food runner, it's because they don't really do all that much more than handle room service for you at a higher level than calling an order in.  Yes, you can request them to help with a few minor things like to tie a shoe for you..  But that's not something 99% of guests are going to need.  You do point out a few good ideas though for those who may be more mobility challenged and I'll keep that in mind in the future when others ask about butlers and what they can do 🙂

 

I've never had a Genie on RCCL, but it sounds like they combine the functions of the butler and concierge on NCL.  Is there a separate concierge on RCCL?

 

I've had different levels of service from different butlers on NCL.

 

One, who has drawn rave reviews from other posters, was rather standoffish, telling us at the outset that it would be difficult for him to bring us breakfast or dinner at the times we would like.  His contribution to our holiday was pretty much restricted to walking us onto the ship and bringing us our afternoon snacks.  My contribution to him was $25/person for a one week cruise, or about $3.50ppd.

 

Another, Leo, did considerably more.  Among other things, he:

• walked us onto the ship, skipping the line.
• collected and brought us new keycards when it was necessary, saving me having to stand in line at the front desk.
• served us breakfast in our cabin most mornings, saving us time waiting in Moderno (very useful when you have small children).  On one morning he told me that there would be a delay as several other cabins also wanted breakfast - we were tucking in 15 minutes after our phone call.
• brought our excursion tickets when we made a last minute booking (he recommended the excursion to us when he brought breakfast so he arranged it, not the concierge), taking my keycard so that I got the Platinum discount without having to stand in line at the excursion desk (which he reminded me about as I'd forgotten).
• recommended and gave directions for several hikes (we were in Alaska and it turns out that he is an avid hiker himself).
• brought our (wrapped) leftovers from Teppanyaki to the cabin, so that we could go directly to the theater afterwards.
• showed us the shortcut to get from the Haven to the climbing wall.
• recommended which shows he thought we would enjoy and welcomed us to the Haven seating area in the theatre (I think he may have been assisting the concierge in this; I didn't see any other butlers waiting around there).
• brought extra chocolate-covered strawberries because my daughters asked.
• brought my daughters' favorite cookies every afternoon after they asked.
• walked us off the ship, taking us through the service elevators to avoid the scrum before, again, skipping the line.

I felt that Leo added quite a lot to our holiday and saved us (especially me) a lot of time.  My contribution to him was $100/person for a one week cruise, or about $14ppd.

[havenfan]

20 minutes ago, ColinIllinois said:

My expectation is that if I go to a good, expensive restaurant I will get prompt, efficient service for the prices I am paying for my meal.  The service that is actually provided over what I feel I should receive will determine what I will tip.   Not some arbitrary percentage that someone else will feel is appropriate.

 

I agree that anyone who withholds without good cause is being a jerk

 

So do you tip 0% if you receive prompt, efficient service but no more?

[ColinIllinois]

3 minutes ago, havenfan said:

 

So do you tip 0% if you receive prompt, efficient service but no more?

 

 

Of course not, but I'm not going to give a 25% tip either.

[havenfan]

10 minutes ago, ColinIllinois said:

Of course not, but I'm not going to give a 25% tip either.

 

Then do you give an "arbitrary" 15% for "standard" service?

 

I don't think we're actually disagreeing at this point.  My point is that, afaik, the butlers and concierges rely on tips for most of their income in a manner similar to waiters in the United States.  If I'm correct, then leaving 0 is probably not right.  I don't know what the equivalent to "15% for standard service" is for NCL butlers and concierges, but my best guess is that it is NOT zero.

Edited November 2, 2018 by havenfan

[RDH377]

Wow, another haven tip thread. I wish I could find my previous answer and re-post it but that is too much work, so...

 

7 of us in a GV on the GEM upcoming. This will be our first cruise ever. I expect that there will be a lot of in suite meal requests. However, we will probably just be looking for separation of the savory and the sweet and not course-by-course service. Other than that we are fairly self sufficient adults.  Regardless, we will not be tipping 10-15 per person, per day for the butler no matter what (saving a life or someone's limb might be an exception (kidding)). Consider 7 people times 15 per day = $105 per day times 7 days = $735 for the cruise. For exceptional service with a smile (making our cruise significantly better), I am budgeting $200 - $300 (somewhere around $40 per day) for the week. It would take something really special to go up from there. We will adjust within the range based on actual requests and the service level received. It would take something relatively bad or exceptionally poor service, or no requests, to go down below that range. I hope this "helps" those looking for a specific answer though I would remind people that this will be our first cruise. As far as the concierge is concerned, we expect to use their services for "regular" requests including escort duty, some port/tour guidance, and hopefully to arrange some ship tours (galley, bridge, engine room). We will probably make one or two special requests. The concierge tip will be based on how the requests are handled and or responded to. There will be nothing outrageous, at least I do not think so. For those looking for an "actual answer", my budget estimate is for approximately 1/2 of what we tip the butler. We also plan on giving the room steward(s) a bit extra (beyond the tip pool) even though we are neat people if only because they are servicing a huge suite. I think that covers it. Have a nice day.

[havenfan]

3 hours ago, BNBR said:

 

I think you can use some common sense to come up with an appropriate tip amount.  The Butlers hand upwards of 15 cabins.  We all know roughly what cruise employees make.  So suggesting $200 - $500/week for a butler, unless you are running them ragged all day, every day, is ridiculous.  If the "norm" was to tip $500/week for the cabin, then the butler would be pulling down nearly $400,000/year.  OBVIOUSLY that's not a baseline tip.   So you can figure out a baseline "suggested" tip pretty easily by figuring how many cabins the butler has and a typical income for that type of position.  It's probably in the $40 - $50 range per cabin for the week.

 

Do we all know roughly what cruise employees make?  The last time I tried to look I found ranges of $800-1200/month for unskilled workers in the kitchen (think potato peelers and busboys), $1800-2200/month for room stewards, $2000-2500/month for waiters and $4500-5500/month for butlers.  How does that tally with your "knowledge"?

 

I asked around on the Pearl last summer.  There were five butlers, not counting the courtyard valet.  Only four butlers had cabins on a given cruise, the fifth is on night butler duty.  There are 48 suites on the Pearl with a total of 140 berths.

 

Let's use $4800/month to keep the math simple.  If a butler were to average $4800 a month, they would need to average $4800/24 = $200/day when they are on day shift (24 days rather than 30 days a month because they're on night butler duty one cruise in five).  140 suite berths is 35 per butler, but let's use 40 passengers each because there are usually extra passengers in pullman or sofa beds.  So they would need to average $200/40 = $5ppd.

 

$5ppd is $70 for two people on a one week cruise.

 

A couple of other ways to put the numbers in some context:

1. NCL's normal employment pattern seems to be 8 month contracts with at least 2 month breaks between them.  So $4800/month would actually be $4800 * 12 * (8/10) = $46080/year.
2. Cruise ship employees nominally work 70 hours a week, though I suspect butlers may work longer hours.  Not counting overtime, $4800/month = $160/day = $16/hour.  If you use time-and-a-half over 40 hours a week, then it would be equivalent to $13/hour.

Edited November 2, 2018 by havenfan

[dexddd]

1 hour ago, TrinaLC said:

MSC yacht club is a true butler experience. Have found NCL butlers to also be glorified food runners and some not even that. Our last experience we had to fight to get regular ice deliveries. 

 

Only have one MSC YC in and several NCL suites, and from all the reading here over the years, that is how I would describe it.  We always ask to have plenty of ice and it sometimes takes reminders but we did luck out one time on the Spirit and he brought us a cooler the first night and that baby was always stocked with ice.

[BNBR]

12 minutes ago, havenfan said:

 

Do we all know roughly what cruise employees make?  The last time I tried to look I found ranges of $800-1200/month for unskilled workers in the kitchen (think potato peelers and busboys), $1800-2200/month for room stewards, $2000-2500/month for waiters and $4500-5500/month for butlers.  How does that tally with your "knowledge"?

 

I asked around on the Pearl last summer.  There were five butlers, not counting the courtyard valet.  Only four butlers had cabins on a given cruise, the fifth is on night butler duty.  There are 48 suites on the Pearl with a total of 140 berths.

 

Let's use $4800/month to keep the math simple.  If a butler were to average $4800 a month, they would need to average $4800/24 = $200/day when they are on day shift (24 days rather than 30 days a month because they're on night butler duty one cruise in five).  140 suite berths is 35 per butler, but let's use 40 passengers each because there are usually extra passengers in pullman or sofa beds.  So they would need to average $200/40 = $5ppd.

 

$5ppd is $70 for two people on a one week cruise.

 

A couple of other ways to put the numbers in some context:

1. NCL's normal employment pattern seems to be 8 month contracts with at least 2 month breaks between them.  So $4800/month would actually be $4800 * 12 * (8/10) = $46080/year.
2. Cruise ship employees nominally work 70 hours a week, though I suspect butlers may work longer hours.  Not counting overtime, $4800/month = $160/day = $16/hour.  If you use time-and-a-half over 40 hours a week, then it would be equivalent to $13/hour.

 

Considering the well known low wages for cruise employees, to suggest a glorified food runner is earning near the US household median income is dubious, at best.  I find it highly unlikely NCL butlers are earning $5k/mo.  Possible?  Sure.  But certainly suspect.

[Trimone]

You are under no obligation to tip anyone, if someone does a lousy job they don’t deserve a tip, however if someone is effecant at their job, and goes the extra mile, a $25 tip for the week seems about right.

[PTC DAWG]

My thoughts are, IF you can spring for the Haven or Suites...you can swing at least a $100 for the Butler, for a 7 day, this is my baseline.  

 

IF you can't afford to tip the Butler, just book a room that doesn't provide one.  

Edited November 2, 2018 by PTC DAWG

[PTC DAWG]

8 minutes ago, Trimone said:

You are under no obligation to tip anyone, if someone does a lousy job they don’t deserve a tip, however if someone is effecant at their job, and goes the extra mile, a $25 tip for the week seems about right.

That seems low to me, I tip the steward in regular cabins more than that for a week.  That would be on top of the DSC....

Edited November 2, 2018 by PTC DAWG

[BNBR]

6 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

My thoughts are, IF you can spring for the Haven or Suites...you can swing at least a $100 for the Butler, for a 7 day, this is my baseline.  

 

IF you can't afford to tip the Butler, just book a room that doesn't provide one.  

 

Why would I tip $100 to a guy I see once and did nothing more than drop a few trays of snacks off at my room?  I see almost no value in the butler, at least the way NCL does it.

 

I usually give the cabin steward an extra $100 for the week, though.

[PTC DAWG]

7 minutes ago, BNBR said:

 

Why would I tip $100 to a guy I see once and did nothing more than drop a few trays of snacks off at my room?  I see almost no value in the butler, at least the way NCL does it.

 

I usually give the cabin steward an extra $100 for the week, though.

Well, IF I wasn't going to tip him hardly anything, I would tell him the snacks, etc he was going to provide me would not be needed.  At least let the guy know what he's getting into.  Seems only fair.

[BNBR]

1 hour ago, havenfan said:

 

I've never had a Genie on RCCL, but it sounds like they combine the functions of the butler and concierge on NCL.  Is there a separate concierge on RCCL?

 

 

 

The Genie is basically a concierge/butler.  It's a big step up from NCL and more personalized.  However, it should be noted that you don't get a Genie unless you book Star Class which is substantially more expensive than typical RCCL suites.  It's a totally different product.  For a comparison, Royal basically doesn't have a butler for similarly priced suites.  In that respect, NCL gives you a little extra for your money, whether you find it valuable or not.

[BNBR]

2 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

Well, IF I wasn't going to tip him hardly anything, I would tell him the snacks, etc he was going to provide me would not be needed.  At least let the guy know what he's getting into.  Seems only fair.

 

I tipped the butler.  Considering the room service runners get couple bucks or so for dropping food off, I'd suggest I tipped the butler way above and beyond the actual level of service I received.  We literally got a little tray of snacks off a cart each day.  It was essentially nothing.  The regular food runners do so much more.

[PTC DAWG]

16 minutes ago, BNBR said:

 

I tipped the butler.  Considering the room service runners get couple bucks or so for dropping food off, I'd suggest I tipped the butler way above and beyond the actual level of service I received.  We literally got a little tray of snacks off a cart each day.  It was essentially nothing.  The regular food runners do so much more.

I don’t see myself in need a Butlers services either...maybe it could be optional...

Edited November 2, 2018 by PTC DAWG

[NLH Arizona]

4 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

I don’t see myself in need a Butlers services either...maybe it could be optional...

You could always let the Butler know the first day that you wouldn't need his/her services.

 

I don't do the daily snacks, so I let them know the first day not to deliver them.

[Love2CruiseMore]

As a first timer in a suite, just a plain ol’ suite not the Haven, I’m thankful for all of the replies regarding tipping!  So what I’ve learned is that somewhere between $0-$500 and up is the “norm”!  Some butlers are food runners and some play video games with your kids...wow!  Hopefully we will have an experience that falls in the middle.  My husband and I are celebrating our 30th anniversary a few months early to accommodate DH’s work schedule and the itinerary was too good to pass up. It would be nice to have a special surprise one night, but we won’t expect any recognition.  That truly is special that the butler recognized that couples special day!  And it sounds like it was appreciated.  We booked the two bedroom suite for the additional space as we will have 7 sea days and the cost seemed reasonable for the additional space.  Our booking had nothing to do with having a butler, I really don’t know what we’d ask of our butler.  Maybe a dinner and/or a breakfast delivered to the room (not served course by course that seems a bit much for us) would be nice!  Too bad that drinks from our ubp can’t be delivered to the room  😕 

I’m really grateful for threads like this as at the time of my booking I didn’t know that the butler and concierge were not included in the DSC!  So, thank you!  We will tip appropriately based on service received, not $0 and not $500 but somewhere in between!  

[valleyvillage]

What I have learned about tipping after several cruises: you really don't know in advance. You can make an arbitrary decision before the cruise, but why? You will have a much better idea after you have experienced their services. The other thing I learned to do is to go to the service desk when it's not busy and charge the tips to your room. They give you envelopes and a voucher to present to the individuals while depositing your tips into the appropriate crew member's account. We have found that to be quite handy!

[sverigecruiser]

 

I think that the butlers and concierges on NCL get a decent salary because I'm sure that if they wasn't they should get some of the DSC.

 

My opinion is that if you don't ask for anything you don't have to tip. We tip a few dollars every time we order breakfast and a little more, maybe $20, if we order dinner. 

[Georgia_Peaches]

4 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

Well, IF I wasn't going to tip him hardly anything, I would tell him the snacks, etc he was going to provide me would not be needed.  At least let the guy know what he's getting into.  Seems only fair.

Agree...I'd almost like to have an opt out button just in case I didn't want to use my butler for anything...which I don't.  We don't book a suite because it comes with a butler.  Just not our thing...and it has nothing to do with affordability.  It's about not really having anything for a butler to do.  

[BirdTravels]

8 hours ago, ColinIllinois said:

 

 

Of course not, but I'm not going to give a 25% tip either.

20%-25% is customary in a nice restaurant. Not 5-10 bucks. 

[BNBR]

1 minute ago, BirdTravels said:

20%-25% is customary in a nice restaurant. Not 5-10 bucks. 

 

Do tell. What is 20% of the $0 bill for the butler? 

[Paphillyguy]

BNBR. I would not want to be your butler.  You seem to have no respect for the job that they do.  You continue to belittle their job by calling them a glorified food runner.  I am sorry that you have not had a good experience with the NCL butlers but I have had a very different experience.   If anything perhaps you have an issue with the term butler that NCL uses.  If you read their job duties on NCL.com they are very clear.