Abandon hope all ye who enter here:

[TeeRick]

I am one of those people that also find the Mainstream media news and the sensationalized local news to be less than optimal and I do not routinely get my key COVID-19 information from them.  Many are all about ratings and about political opinions.  And casting blame.  I don't personally need that.  But I do feel well informed as I follow other sources, particularly from the CDC and from research sites of universities and state and county health sites.  So what is wrong with that?  Do I really need to watch a local police raid on the garage of somebody hoarding 1000 cases of toilet paper?  For me- no.  

[Gracie115]

10 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

  So what is wrong with that?  Do I really need to watch a local police raid on the garage of somebody hoarding 1000 cases of toilet paper?    

 

I feel much the same about the Mainstream news......but seeing a dude who's hoarding 1000 cases of TP, while not necessary at all did make me feel good that the jerk was caught.  

[cluso]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

I am one of those people that also find the Mainstream media news and the sensationalized local news to be less than optimal and I do not routinely get my key COVID-19 information from them.  Many are all about ratings and about political opinions.  And casting blame.  I don't personally need that.  But I do feel well informed as I follow other sources, particularly from the CDC and from research sites of universities and state and county health sites.  So what is wrong with that?  Do I really need to watch a local police raid on the garage of somebody hoarding 1000 cases of toilet paper?  For me- no.  

 

 Agree. That's why we cut the cable cord many years ago.

 

[BecciBoo]

16 hours ago, Pushka said:

30% of all our Covid deaths in Australia have come directly from cruises that ported into Australia. 
 

This is occurrence rate (Australia has One of the the highest per capita test rate in the world). I'll try find similar for deaths. The light blue from 12 - 4 represents positive results from all cruise ship passengers. 

 

Did you think you could escape this pandemic by simply refusing all ships??  What about planes, etc.  Nope, I think the pendulum is swinging in both directions for all the peoples of this planet.

[BecciBoo]

We're not giving up on Edge April 2021 yet....we'll wait until December.  Final payment date Jan.11th, but we snagged the $20 deposit sale last year and booked her so we'll only lose $40 if we cx at all.

 

We did cx our Oct. RCCL Liberty cruise though, can't be THAT optimistic.  I remember back in 2009 We decided to wait to purchase RCCL's falling stock until it hit $6 per share....it never did (6.49)so we lost out. It started recovering and we never did buy.  RCCL stock as of last week  was at $24.  So considerably higher than back then and we're still waiting.  Expecting it to go as low as then at least.  If it reaches $10 we'll buy. In January it was $135 per share!

[Ride-The-Waves]

3 hours ago, TeeRick said:

I am one of those people that also find the Mainstream media news and the sensationalized local news to be less than optimal and I do not routinely get my key COVID-19 information from them.  Many are all about ratings and about political opinions.  And casting blame.  I don't personally need that.  But I do feel well informed as I follow other sources, particularly from the CDC and from research sites of universities and state and county health sites.  So what is wrong with that?  Do I really need to watch a local police raid on the garage of somebody hoarding 1000 cases of toilet paper?  For me- no.  

Try BBC for what is really happening around the world.

[BigAl94]

4 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Try BBC for what is really happening around the world.

You think so? Wouldn't be so confident.

[Ride-The-Waves]

15 hours ago, Host Anne said:

 

There are many, many ways today to "be informed."  The mainstream media isn't the way I chose to stay informed.

Here is one for you.  Direct from the cruise company.  This is Carnival Corporation.  RCCL has filed similar.  Very sobering.

 

Due to the outbreak of COVID-19 on some of our ships, and the resulting illness and loss of life in certain instances, we have been the subject of negative publicity which could have a long term impact on the appeal of our brands, which would diminish demand for vacations on our vessels. We cannot predict how long the negative impact of recent media attention on our brands will last, or the level of investment that will be required to address the concerns of potential travelers through marketing and pricing actions.

 

We have received, and expect to continue to receive, lawsuits from passengers aboard the Grand Princess voyage in February 2020. We may receive additional lawsuits stemming from COVID-19. We cannot predict the quantum or outcome of any such proceedings and the impact that they will have on our financial results, but any such impact may be material. We also remain subject to extensive, complex, and closely monitored obligations under the court-ordered environmental compliance plan supervised by the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida, as a result of the previously disclosed settlement agreement relating to the violation of probation conditions for a plea agreement entered into by Princess Cruises and the U.S. Department of Justice in 2016. We remain fully committed to satisfying those obligations. However, COVID-19 presents enormous challenges for the Company, which could result in material adverse impacts.

 

We have insurance coverage for certain liabilities, costs and expenses related to COVID-19 through our participation in Protection and Indemnity (“P&I”) clubs, including coverage for direct and incremental costs including, but not limited to, certain quarantine expenses and for certain liabilities to passengers and crew. P&I clubs are mutual indemnity associations owned by members. There is a $10 million deductible per occurrence (meaning per outbreak on a particular ship). We cannot assure you that we will receive insurance proceeds that will compensate us fully for our liabilities, costs and expenses under these policies. We have no insurance coverage for loss of revenues or earnings from our ships or other operations.

 

We have a total of 16 cruise ships scheduled to be delivered through 2025, including four during the remainder of fiscal 2020. We believe the effects of COVID-19 on the shipyards where our ships are under construction will result in a delay in ship deliveries, which we cannot predict and may be prolonged.

 

We cannot predict when any of our ships will begin to sail again and ports will reopen to our ships. Moreover, even once travel advisories and restrictions are lifted, demand for cruises may remain weak for a significant length of time and we cannot predict if and when each brand will return to pre-outbreak demand or fare pricing. In particular, our bookings may be negatively impacted by the adverse changes in the perceived or actual economic climate, including higher unemployment rates, declines in income levels and loss of personal wealth resulting from the impact of COVID-19. In addition, we cannot predict the impact COVID-19 will have on our partners, such as travel agencies, suppliers and other vendors. We may be adversely impacted as a result of the adverse impact our partners suffer.

 

We have never previously experienced a complete cessation of our cruising operations, and as a consequence, our ability to be predictive regarding the impact of such a cessation on our brands and future prospects is uncertain. In particular, we cannot predict the impact on our financial performance and our cash flows required for cash refunds of deposits as a result of the pause in our global fleet cruise operations, which may be prolonged, and the public’s concern regarding the health and safety of travel, especially by cruise ship, and related decreases in demand for travel and cruising. Moreover, our ability to attract and retain guests and crew depends, in part, upon the perception and reputation of our company and our brands and the public’s concerns regarding the health and safety of travel generally, as well as regarding the cruising industry and our ships specifically. As a result, we expect a net loss on both a U.S. GAAP and adjusted basis for the fiscal year ending November 30, 2020, and our ability to forecast our cash inflows and additional capital needs is hampered.

 

As a result of all of the foregoing, we may be required to raise additional capital and our access to and cost of financing will depend on, among other things, global economic conditions, conditions in the global financing markets, the availability of sufficient amounts of financing, our prospects and our credit ratings. As a result of COVID-19, in March 2020, Moody's and S&P Global downgraded our long-term issuer and senior unsecured debt ratings. In addition, our long-term ratings were placed on review for further downgrade by both rating agencies. Our short-term commercial paper credit ratings were also placed on review for downgrade. If our credit ratings were to be further downgraded, or general market conditions were to ascribe higher risk to our rating levels, our industry, or us, our access to capital and the cost of any debt financing will be further negatively impacted. In addition, the terms of future debt agreements could include more restrictive covenants, or require incremental collateral, which may further restrict our business operations or be unavailable due to our covenant restrictions then in effect. There is no guarantee that debt financings will be available in the future to fund our obligations, or that they will be available on terms consistent with our expectations. Additionally, the impact of COVID-19 on the financial markets is expected to adversely impact our ability to raise funds through equity financings.

[Gracie115]

6 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Here is one for you.  Direct from the cruise company.  This is Carnival Corporation.  RCCL has filed similar.  Very sobering.

 

Due to the outbreak of COVID-19 on some of our ships, and the resulting illness and loss of life in certain instances, we have been the subject of negative publicity which could have a long term impact on the appeal of our brands, which would diminish demand for vacations on our vessels. We cannot predict how long the negative impact of recent media attention on our brands will last, or the level of investment that will be required to address the concerns of potential travelers through marketing and pricing actions.

 

We have received, and expect to continue to receive, lawsuits from passengers aboard the Grand Princess voyage in February 2020. We may receive additional lawsuits stemming from COVID-19. We cannot predict the quantum or outcome of any such proceedings and the impact that they will have on our financial results, but any such impact may be material. We also remain subject to extensive, complex, and closely monitored obligations under the court-ordered environmental compliance plan supervised by the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Florida, as a result of the previously disclosed settlement agreement relating to the violation of probation conditions for a plea agreement entered into by Princess Cruises and the U.S. Department of Justice in 2016. We remain fully committed to satisfying those obligations. However, COVID-19 presents enormous challenges for the Company, which could result in material adverse impacts.

 

We have insurance coverage for certain liabilities, costs and expenses related to COVID-19 through our participation in Protection and Indemnity (“P&I”) clubs, including coverage for direct and incremental costs including, but not limited to, certain quarantine expenses and for certain liabilities to passengers and crew. P&I clubs are mutual indemnity associations owned by members. There is a $10 million deductible per occurrence (meaning per outbreak on a particular ship). We cannot assure you that we will receive insurance proceeds that will compensate us fully for our liabilities, costs and expenses under these policies. We have no insurance coverage for loss of revenues or earnings from our ships or other operations.

 

We have a total of 16 cruise ships scheduled to be delivered through 2025, including four during the remainder of fiscal 2020. We believe the effects of COVID-19 on the shipyards where our ships are under construction will result in a delay in ship deliveries, which we cannot predict and may be prolonged.

 

We cannot predict when any of our ships will begin to sail again and ports will reopen to our ships. Moreover, even once travel advisories and restrictions are lifted, demand for cruises may remain weak for a significant length of time and we cannot predict if and when each brand will return to pre-outbreak demand or fare pricing. In particular, our bookings may be negatively impacted by the adverse changes in the perceived or actual economic climate, including higher unemployment rates, declines in income levels and loss of personal wealth resulting from the impact of COVID-19. In addition, we cannot predict the impact COVID-19 will have on our partners, such as travel agencies, suppliers and other vendors. We may be adversely impacted as a result of the adverse impact our partners suffer.

 

We have never previously experienced a complete cessation of our cruising operations, and as a consequence, our ability to be predictive regarding the impact of such a cessation on our brands and future prospects is uncertain. In particular, we cannot predict the impact on our financial performance and our cash flows required for cash refunds of deposits as a result of the pause in our global fleet cruise operations, which may be prolonged, and the public’s concern regarding the health and safety of travel, especially by cruise ship, and related decreases in demand for travel and cruising. Moreover, our ability to attract and retain guests and crew depends, in part, upon the perception and reputation of our company and our brands and the public’s concerns regarding the health and safety of travel generally, as well as regarding the cruising industry and our ships specifically. As a result, we expect a net loss on both a U.S. GAAP and adjusted basis for the fiscal year ending November 30, 2020, and our ability to forecast our cash inflows and additional capital needs is hampered.

 

As a result of all of the foregoing, we may be required to raise additional capital and our access to and cost of financing will depend on, among other things, global economic conditions, conditions in the global financing markets, the availability of sufficient amounts of financing, our prospects and our credit ratings. As a result of COVID-19, in March 2020, Moody's and S&P Global downgraded our long-term issuer and senior unsecured debt ratings. In addition, our long-term ratings were placed on review for further downgrade by both rating agencies. Our short-term commercial paper credit ratings were also placed on review for downgrade. If our credit ratings were to be further downgraded, or general market conditions were to ascribe higher risk to our rating levels, our industry, or us, our access to capital and the cost of any debt financing will be further negatively impacted. In addition, the terms of future debt agreements could include more restrictive covenants, or require incremental collateral, which may further restrict our business operations or be unavailable due to our covenant restrictions then in effect. There is no guarantee that debt financings will be available in the future to fund our obligations, or that they will be available on terms consistent with our expectations. Additionally, the impact of COVID-19 on the financial markets is expected to adversely impact our ability to raise funds through equity financings.

 

Sobering, disturbing, unsettling...…..  hopefully not a bankruptcy coming up and the wipe out of millions of refunds 😱

[RICCruisers]

15 hours ago, Host Anne said:

 

There are many, many ways today to "be informed."  The mainstream media isn't the way I chose to stay informed.

 

Interesting comment. I guess since you are not being informed by the “Mainstream Media”, your Choice is to listen to the “Fringe Media” to receive your information.  

 

That is what I took away from your post. Please correct me if I took your post incorrectly. 

[zitsky]

26 minutes ago, BigAl94 said:

You think so? Wouldn't be so confident.

 

What news outlets do you recommend for Covid news? 

[Prost Seattle]

I’m realizing that cruising is most likely not in my best interest if the ships are full of as many denialists as this board has.  I’ll wait for my refund after Celebrity cancels and mourn the culling of the herd. 

[ECCruise]

For those who insist on saying "Prices will be much higher when sailing resumes,"  listen to the cruise line if you don't understand:

Moreover, even once travel advisories and restrictions are lifted, demand for cruises may remain weak for a significant length of time and we cannot predict if and when each brand will return to pre-outbreak demand or fare pricing. 

[Quo Vadis?]

I've always been a news junkie and scour many sources so that I can make up my own mind about what is real or not.  The first people who condemn and/or shoot the messenger are the ones to be considered untrustworthy.  Thank you Ride-The-Waves to provide us with a report from an actual source to provide us with a very scary scenario.

[niddwalker2]

Just wish Celebrity would cancel cruises a little bit earlier.We are due to sail out ofVenice on 20/07/20 and due to make final payment 16/5.  What I see is Celebrity waiting until after this date so maybe they might get cash in rather than give cash refunds and so reporting there bank account.As I see it there is no way they will sail out of Venice in July .Any advice from c.c members welcome.

 

[Quo Vadis?]

5 minutes ago, niddwalker2 said:

Just wish Celebrity would cancel cruises a little bit earlier.We are due to sail out ofVenice on 20/07/20 and due to make final payment 16/5.  What I see is Celebrity waiting until after this date so maybe they might get cash in rather than give cash refunds and so reporting there bank account.As I see it there is no way they will sail out of Venice in July .Any advice from c.c members welcome.

 

 

Celebrity can't handle the volume of cancellations to date let alone the need for cancelling more.

 

Just call me Joe, but don't ask me for advice unless you consider this:

"Joe Btfsplk was a character in the satirical comic strip Li'l Abner (published 1934–1977) by cartoonist Al Capp. He is well-meaning, but is the world's worst jinx, bringing disastrous misfortune to everyone around him. A small, dark rain cloud perpetually hovers over his head to symbolize his bad luck. "

[grandgeezer]

Check out the news from South Korea. It's an initial report but it doesn't bode well if it continues. This is from a country, not named China, who took immediate and forceful action and was well on their way to getting back to normalcy.  

[NMTraveller]

6 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

Check out the news from South Korea. It's an initial report but it doesn't bode well if it continues. This is from a country, not named China, who took immediate and forceful action and was well on their way to getting back to normalcy.  

 

South Korea is getting it back again mainly from travellers from other countries as is China.

 

This is how this thing spreads - travel, travel, and travel.  Whether it be the NYC subway or airlines or cruise lines.

[Gracie115]

17 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

Check out the news from South Korea. It's an initial report but it doesn't bode well if it continues. This is from a country, not named China, who took immediate and forceful action and was well on their way to getting back to normalcy.  

 

Yes they are having a spike again, as we will and every other country will.  It's the way viruses work.  But the next one won't be as bad, a smaller curve, fewer people. There will be several and then eventually a vaccine will be found.  Anyone that thinks this is over after we peak and fall off the first time is wrong.  It will take a long time.  

[DYKWIA]

On 4/4/2020 at 3:00 PM, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

 Look for any surviving mainstream cruise lines to jack up prices (and high-pressure add-ons, new fees and up-sells) significantly higher whenever cruising happens again.

 

Bank on far, far fewer cabins or itineraries, too.

 

Sad truth is, a lot of today's fleet could be on a scrap beach in India before 2021. The industry was way overbuilt already ... and it simply won't be sustainable now. Major investment houses are suggesting unemployment over 15 percent; the St Louis federal reserve was talking north of 25. That's WORSE than the severest part of the Great Depression

 

It you don't personally know a bunch of folks out of work, give it another month or two. It's coming.  An awful lot of remaining jobs will take pay cuts, benefit rollbacks,

etc ... and a lot of small businesses that were living in the edge have closed up now and will never be back.

 

will the country come out of it? Eventually.

but it's not going to look like February of 2020 again for a long, long time.

 

and that truth dooms a lot of the mass market cruise ships, which banked on an enormous base of prospective customers each year. That base just fractured 

 

meanwhile, who believes that ANY government is going to let the cruise business skirt and duck  genuine regulatory oversight from now on? Grand, diamond, coral, zaandam .... privately owned, tax-dodging businesses were steadily crying to governments for expensive emergency aid during national crises. And we still ended up with lists of dead passengers and crew. Guaranteed, no government will allow a replay ... so even if a miracle vaccine turns up, the cruise industry will have to pump a lot more into preparations and contingency plans before the first ship sails again. That's going to cost a bunch - and guess who will have to pay?

 

will higher prices drive away some long-time customers? Sure. So what.

 

for the cruise lines: Fewer, poorer customers ... far too many ships ... a boatload and debt & new losses piling up each day. There's simply no other way any middle-market line could hope to resume business without major downsizing along with big price increases.

 

 

After 9-11 the airlines didn't get people back on board by raising fares, they slashed them

 

[Gracie115]

1 hour ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Here is one for you.  Direct from the cruise company.  This is Carnival Corporation.  RCCL has filed similar.  Very sobering.

 

 

 

 

 

Do you know when this was released?  Can't find it Carnival Corp website.

[niddwalker2]

Agree with your comments cruise lines have had blinkers on for several years ,expanding fleets as though it would never spoil the world. They have ruined so many cities with so many people  being put intlo places lie Venice on one day ,it is   Many other cities have suffered the same problem. impossible to walk around comfortably.I can never see cruise lines surviving the way they have in the past.

[dabear]

1 hour ago, ECCruise said:

For those who insist on saying "Prices will be much higher when sailing resumes,"  listen to the cruise line if you don't understand:

Moreover, even once travel advisories and restrictions are lifted, demand for cruises may remain weak for a significant length of time and we cannot predict if and when each brand will return to pre-outbreak demand or fare pricing. 

For all those pax who are taking the 125%fcc thinking it's great, the 25% may not be enough. We have a ss1 for a European cruise this fall. In comparing the price to the exact cruise, date, itinerary and cabin, the 2021 price is almost 200% of the 2020 price. If we cancel , we will take  refund and not rebook at those prices.

[zitsky]

6 minutes ago, niddwalker2 said:

Agree with your comments cruise lines have had blinkers on for several years ,expanding fleets as though it would never spoil the world. They have ruined so many cities with so many people  being put intlo places lie Venice on one day ,it is   Many other cities have suffered the same problem. impossible to walk around comfortably.I can never see cruise lines surviving the way they have in the past.

 

I suppose you never travel then? (To minimize your impact.)  Or do you buy carbon credits perhaps?

[cruisequeen4ever]

Just a month ago, it was “well, at least we have our bucket list Christmas cruise to look forward to” after our 2 summer cruises went down the tubes. Now the Christmas cruise seems a bit of an unrealistic dream. I’m hopeful but trying to be realistic that we may have to wait til 2021 to cruise again. When some cruises run smoothly and healthily, I’ll feel confident to get back onboard.