Cruising during and post COVID-19

[SusieQft]

How would they enforce who is traveling as a group?  I would suggest that you could meet people on the ship and decide to be "a group."  Perhaps they could say that groups must arrive together and be seated as a unit, but Regent will not have "shared tables" that they put together from people asking to sit with others.

[greykitty]

Well, time will certainly be sometime after September 15 now!

 

To be fair, since the cruise lines want to continue making new future reservations before they have CDC approval (see today's announcement - the word voluntary struck me funny, I admit), I guess they have to put out these innocuous 'we'll be safe for sailing and here are our plans' announcements to try and keep potential customers somewhat comfortable. But, what will the actual protocols look like?  They don't know, the CDC doesn't know right now, and we don't know.  

 

I would hope that the lines will be extremely flexible/realistic about letting passengers know what protocols will be in place on their sailings at least in time to cancel/rebook air as well as cruise, if the trip no longer seems worth the investment.  I'm not sure what that means - at least one month in advance?  But finding out as you board doesn't seem quite right either.

 

Heck, I don't know what this fogging of cabins/public areas means - is that every day, between sailings, what?  I would hope daily at least, tell the truth, but does that mean there's a schedule when passengers/crew need to be out of certain areas? I mean, my patio and fancy take out/delivery sounds better by the moment.... the following is an NCLH protocol.

 

Further, all staterooms, suites and public areas will be cleaned, sanitized and disinfected at an increased frequency, and including the use of Electrostatic Spray Technology. Increased sanitation efforts include:

HOCl Fogging in Staterooms & Public Areas
Fogging in staterooms and public areas with the disinfectant hypochlorous acid (HOCI). Hypochlorous acid is a non-toxic, powerful oxidant that effectively kills bacteria, spores, and viruses. It is natural and safe to use in open areas since it is comprised of natural elements such as water and salt, and electric charge

 

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by greykitty

[Got2Cruise]

Another variable is the individual ports. I follow Aruba closely because I’m a frequent visitor. If anyone wants to visit Aruba one must purchase special health insurance from Aruba or have proof that you have Covid coverage in Aruba. And, everyone must have a COVID test before arriving or you must have a COVID test at airport. If your COVID test is positive you are sent to an isolation quarantine  hotel. You are also in isolation quarantine until your test comes back in Aruba if you have it done at the airport. 

 

Personally Im going to wait until less restrictions to visit Aruba. 

[rcandkc]

3 minutes ago, Got2Cruise said:

Another variable is the individual ports. I follow Aruba closely because I’m a frequent visitor. If anyone wants to visit Aruba one must purchase special health insurance from Aruba or have proof that you have Covid coverage in Aruba. And, everyone must have a COVID test before arriving or you must have a COVID test at airport. If your COVID test is positive you are sent to an isolation quarantine  hotel. You are also in isolation quarantine until your test comes back in Aruba if you have it done at the airport. 

 

Personally Im going to wait until less restrictions to visit Aruba. 

We go to Aruba almost annually for many years and have our normal plans for February at the moment.  I’ve been following and it is looking doubtful we will make the trip. 

[greykitty]

22 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

 

We often go with groups of friends; our next trip has over 30 of us.  If we can't change dinner partners every evening seems pretty bad.  I wonder if "guests traveling together" could be considered all guests under one "group" booking?

 

Time will tell.

 

Marc

What happens if a member or two of such a large group booking comes down with symptoms?  Whole group looked at extra carefully?  Maybe even quarantined?  You'd have to assume that a group like this would be in closer contact on a daily basis on a ship than just 30 individual passengers, right?  

 

Arrgh - what if a 'group booking' member shows up at the embarkation and is turned away due to illness....they have to track down the entire group and remove from ship?

 

Yep, worst cases here, but I would hope that's how cruise line risk management people are looking at things now.

[CBWIR]

3 hours ago, SusieQft said:

Regent did not ask my opinion.  Which is probably just as well because they know their business a lot better than I do.  😁 

 

Susie. Great comment. Wish other posters would recognize this. Thanks for your contributions.

 

[Travelcat2]

1 hour ago, greykitty said:

What happens if a member or two of such a large group booking comes down with symptoms?  Whole group looked at extra carefully?  Maybe even quarantined?  You'd have to assume that a group like this would be in closer contact on a daily basis on a ship than just 30 individual passengers, right?  

 

Arrgh - what if a 'group booking' member shows up at the embarkation and is turned away due to illness....they have to track down the entire group and remove from ship?

 

Yep, worst cases here, but I would hope that's how cruise line risk management people are looking at things now.

 

Regent rarely does large group bookings and, to my knowledge, does not have any booked this year.  One cannot assume that a large group would all know each other - let alone think that they require being within 6’ of each other.  The biggest “group” that Regent regularly has onboard is from PBS and what you describe would not be an issue for them.  

 

 

 

[cruiseluv]

6 hours ago, Caroldoll said:

Where does it say you can't socialize with other passengers?  I have read it twice?

 

"The space between seats at the tables and between the tables themselves have been designed for you to enjoy your meal safely. Only members of the same family and guests traveling together will be allowed to sit together at the same table. "

[greykitty]

I was referring to earlier posts about table assignments, and  @mrlevin's post, about the 30 or so folks he'll be traveling with (hopefully) and wondering how tables at meals might be allocated, especially if the group would like to change seating partners pretty often, if the protocol is that tables are assigned only to folks traveling 'together'.  Does that mean such groups of traveling companions have to be listed as 'groups' to even be considered getting seating together?  

 

I dunno - I keep reading about groups of friends, old or new, meeting each other on ships and having daily happy hours together, trivia, meals -- I think most potential travelers wonder how that all will work going forward, especially in the relatively short term.  Could make a difference between wanting to get on the ship, and deciding it's not worth it.

 

 

[cruiseluv]

3 hours ago, SusieQft said:

We are still booked on Mariner for Oct. 12.  Three days ago, after our final payment deadline and onset of penalties, I decided to see how full the ship is, along with the Oct. 5 and Oct. 22 sailings.  I may be mistaken, but I think some people may have a final payment deadline in July instead of June.  All are now ~1/3 or less full:

• Oct. 5 is 24% booked.
• Oct. 12 is 34% booked.
• Oct. 22 is 29% booked (still before June final payment deadline).

 

Difficult to believe it would make sense for them to sail with those low numbers

[toseaornottosea]

38 minutes ago, Travelcat2 said:

 

Regent rarely does large group bookings and, to my knowledge, does not have any booked this year.  One cannot assume that a large group would all know each other - let alone think that they require being within 6’ of each other.  The biggest “group” that Regent regularly has onboard is from PBS and what you describe would not be an issue for them.  

 

 

 

In June of 2016 we were on a b2b cruise Barcelona to Lisbon/Lisbon to London.  Great cruise but...on the first leg there was a group of about 40 or so from The Cheesecake Factory rowdy as could be.  They made the pool deck almost unbearable.  Fortunately they disembarked in Lisbon.  

[fizzy]

12 minutes ago, toseaornottosea said:

In June of 2016 we were on a b2b cruise Barcelona to Lisbon/Lisbon to London.  Great cruise but...on the first leg there was a group of about 40 or so from The Cheesecake Factory rowdy as could be.  They made the pool deck almost unbearable.  Fortunately they disembarked in Lisbon.  

We have been on several cruises, both Regent and Silversea , where there have been incentive groups sailing.

[docmark]

1 hour ago, cruiseluv said:

Difficult to believe it would make sense for them to sail with those low numbers

We plan to go on October 12 cruise, IF in next 6-8 weeks it appears that Cruise will not be cancelled. We have not yet deposited or reserved, and I tend to believe there are others like us, so they may get to 50% (or close to it) capacity.

[Travelcat2]

1 hour ago, greykitty said:

I was referring to earlier posts about table assignments, and  @mrlevin's post, about the 30 or so folks he'll be traveling with (hopefully) and wondering how tables at meals might be allocated, especially if the group would like to change seating partners pretty often, if the protocol is that tables are assigned only to folks traveling 'together'.  Does that mean such groups of traveling companions have to be listed as 'groups' to even be considered getting seating together?  

 

I dunno - I keep reading about groups of friends, old or new, meeting each other on ships and having daily happy hours together, trivia, meals -- I think most potential travelers wonder how that all will work going forward, especially in the relatively short term.  Could make a difference between wanting to get on the ship, and deciding it's not worth it.

 

 

 

I am familiar with the "group" that Marc is referring to.  It is actually a TA group which simply means that they are all clients of the same TA.  We have sailed with this group before and there would be no problem in social distancing.  

 

The "groups of friends" that you were reading about - having cocktails (Regent does not have happy hour), trivia and dinner together must have been before Covid-19 since none of us have cruised for a few months.  

 

There will likely be the possibility to dine with friends but certainly not changing "seating partners pretty often".   Regent will abide by rules that are currently in place on land.  So, if the limit on land has a group limit of 5, Regent should do the same.  

 

Anyone that has concerns about the new protocols should likely wait a few months to sail.  Passengers from the first few sailings will likely be posting live from the ship and can answer questions.  However, as with things on land, protocols are bound to change as we go forward.

[CBWIR]

Tedious.

[LvnCruisin]

Yes it will be tedious. But it won't be anymore tedious for the cruise industry than any other member of the hospitality industry that is trying to come out of this pandemic. 

 

We've watched all of our local  restaurants as they have worked through the kinks of what it takes to open. We spoke with some good friends who own a restaurant yesterday that told us that while they are only able to server 60% of what they could in the past they are making 90% of the revenue than they did before this all started. Clearly they have figured it out.  We have a niece that is in the hotel industry, they have to leave a room empty for 48 hours after a guest has stayed, imagine the hit they are taking.

 

I realize these examples aren't as confined as a ship would be but they are learning, exactly as the cruise industry will. At first it will be awkward - but it will get better. Those that listen, learn and adapt will succeed the best.

 

I fully expect (fingers are beyond crossed) that we will be sailing on Regent in December, although I expect it will not be the same cruise that we originally booked. Different ports etc. 

[Got2Cruise]

I don’t understand the remark tedious. It’s called a pandemic. Fortunately taking a luxury cruise during a pandemic is not mandatory. 

[Pcardad]

18 hours ago, cruiseluv said:

Difficult to believe it would make sense for them to sail with those low numbers

 

The break-even for the ship itself with standard crew and full passengers is around 35% occupancy. I am sure they would run at a loss just to get a clean cruise under their belts.

[SusieQft]

24 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

The break-even for the ship itself with standard crew and full passengers is around 35% occupancy. I am sure they would run at a loss just to get a clean cruise under their belts.

Thank you for that information.  As docmark mentioned above, there are people who would book at the last minute, once they are sure that Regent actually plans to sail these segments, so the numbers might not be quite that dismal in the end.  And it certainly would help them keep the cruise "clean."  So if you ignore the context, they seem to be the perfect starting point for Regent.

 

The problem is in the South America circumnavigation after the three October segments.  I really don't think that will be feasible, so they would have to come up with other itineraries to keep the ship going until the World Cruise on Jan. 5.  Crystal has modeled a way to do that with new short and cheap Caribbean itineraries.  But according to TC's comments in the past, Regent would never do steeply discounted itineraries.  That would change the ship's break-even point, and also if those booked on these 3 segments were not also offered a similar discount, then you would probably see a mass exodus of many of the remaining booked passengers in favor of the discounted segments.

 

All in all, the barriers to sailing seem very high.  And the infamous list supports the conclusion that Regent does not plan to sail Mariner until the World Cruise.  Time will tell.

[Travelcat2]

38 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

 

The break-even for the ship itself with standard crew and full passengers is around 35% occupancy. I am sure they would run at a loss just to get a clean cruise under their belts.

 

Good to know.  Our next two cruises (if they happen) are between 50%  and 75% full.  

 

LvnCrusin  - while I agree that the hospitality industry is being hard hit, it really cannot be compared to the cruise industry where the crew and passengers are living on a ship and cannot go home after work where there are no "protocols" to be followed unless you leave the house.  Also, hotels are opening while cruise ships cannot sail (and are receiving unfair bad press).  

[rallydave]

1 hour ago, Pcardad said:

 

The break-even for the ship itself with standard crew and full passengers is around 35% occupancy. I am sure they would run at a loss just to get a clean cruise under their belts.

 

Really think the 35% for break-even is understated.  Some simple math.  Believe the capacity of all ships is approx 3200.  35% break even means profit on every passenger over 65% cf the capacity.  That w,120,000ould be 2080 passengers and at an average of $1000 per dayk per person would be $7000 per week per person so  $7000 X  2080 passengers X 52 weeks equals $757,120,000 in profit per year if all ships are sailing full.  Know ships don't all sail full and there are weeks for dry dock, etc.  But, I hardly think Regent's profits are anywhere near that figure.  

 

The entire NCLH profit for 2019 was $1.1 B so doubt Regent was anywhere near 3/4 of a Billion on their own.

 

Think you need to take another look at 35% occupancy as a break even point.

Edited June 20, 2020 by rallydave

[CBWIR]

2 hours ago, Got2Cruise said:

I don’t understand the remark tedious. It’s called a pandemic. Fortunately taking a luxury cruise during a pandemic is not mandatory. 

Wasn't meant to refer to the pandemic or future cruising. Sorry for the confusion.

Edited June 20, 2020 by CBWIR

[Pcardad]

25 minutes ago, rallydave said:

 

Really think the 35% for break-even is understated.  Some simple math.  Believe the capacity of all ships is approx 3200.  35% break even means profit on every passenger over 65% cf the capacity.  That w,120,000ould be 2080 passengers and at an average of $1000 per dayk per person would be $7000 per week per person so  $7000 X  2080 passengers X 52 weeks equals $757,120,000 in profit per year if all ships are sailing full.  Know ships don't all sail full and there are weeks for dry dock, etc.  But, I hardly think Regent's profits are anywhere near that figure.  

 

The entire NCLH profit for 2019 was $1.1 B so doubt Regent was anywhere near 3/4 of a Billion on their own.

 

Think you need to take another look at 35% occupancy as a break even point.

 

That % should be accurate for the SHIP only...it does not cover debt servicing, facilities onland, corporate. It just covers the costs to sail the ship, food, fuel, etc. 

[journeyfan]

And how about the single travelers.  Are they to spend every meal eating by themselves?

[Travelcat2]

45 minutes ago, journeyfan said:

And how about the single travelers.  Are they to spend every meal eating by themselves?

 

Based on what is currently in place in our state, we can have 5 people together as a "group".  While it may differ when we sail, the same protocols will be in place at sea as at home.  I wonder if there will be an informal meeting of "solo travelers" as there typically is (with social distancing of course) so that single cruisers can dine together if they choose to do so.  I cannot imagine solo travelers having to dine on their own.