d9704011 Posted October 20, 2020 #51 Share Posted October 20, 2020 11 minutes ago, Mary229 said: The problem is if you intend to fly there are limited options and a high probability of flight cancellations That may very well be the case. Air Canada will sell me a ticket from YOW to DFW on Wednesday if I thought I’d like to take the trip. If they cancel, they’ll give me a credit. Now, if I do get to Dallas and get sick with CV at least my insurance will cover my hospital bills! And if I make it back to Canada, I have another 14 days of quarantine to look forward to after my treatment. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kangforpres Posted October 20, 2020 Author #52 Share Posted October 20, 2020 On 10/18/2020 at 4:39 PM, StLouisCruisers said: My son and family from Michigan are leasing a penthouse condominium in Clearwater, Florida for the months of December and January. Normally they don't do that but this year want a reward for being so careful to not spread coronavirus. They've invited us to come down for a visit and we probably will. I'm not really sure spending 2 months in Clearwater, FL will be a reward for not catching the virus until now. It looks like the virus will be raging over the Winter months considering how it is escalating already this Fall. Unless the plan on isolating the entire time in FL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iancal Posted October 20, 2020 #53 Share Posted October 20, 2020 We are not considering making any decisions or plans until the New Year. I believe that we are in for a very tough and a worsening covid situation until the New Year. The numbers appear to increasing at a larger rate each week. This is the scary part from my perspective. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Mary229 Posted October 20, 2020 #54 Share Posted October 20, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, iancal said: We are not considering making any decisions or plans until the New Year. I believe that we are in for a very tough and a worsening covid situation until the New Year. The numbers appear to increasing at a larger rate each week. This is the scary part from my perspective. Look at the hospitalization rates, those are the only rates that are standardized by any measure. The testing rates vary down to county by county. We have a 4 county metroplex. One uses new people only and the number there are less than 100s where the other 3 counties use every single test and their numbers are in the thousands, so if a person tests 2 or 3 times then that is counted as 2 or 3 cases. My point is that there is no standard method to the reporting except hospitalizations. Edited October 20, 2020 by Mary229 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLouisCruisers Posted October 20, 2020 #55 Share Posted October 20, 2020 12 hours ago, kangforpres said: I'm not really sure spending 2 months in Clearwater, FL will be a reward for not catching the virus until now. It looks like the virus will be raging over the Winter months considering how it is escalating already this Fall. Unless the plan on isolating the entire time in FL. Having been locked down entirely in Michigan (if you watch any news outlet you know that already) since March with very strict face mask rules, I'm sure they know how to handle keeping themselves safe while they relax in the sun at the beach. 😎 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Hlitner Posted October 20, 2020 #56 Share Posted October 20, 2020 12 hours ago, kangforpres said: I'm not really sure spending 2 months in Clearwater, FL will be a reward for not catching the virus until now. It looks like the virus will be raging over the Winter months considering how it is escalating already this Fall. Unless the plan on isolating the entire time in FL. Yes, one can certainly choose to keep themselves in semi-isolation (even in their basement) for the next few years or until COVID is under control (whatever occurs first). However, some of us are getting older and prefer to live our lives. And yes, it is possible to live one's life with COVID by using some common sense. We have already taken some trips (including 2 weeks in South Carolina) and were able to social distance and carefully choose restaurants that minimized risk. This winter we will live in Puerto Vallarta (our usual winter home) where we will certainly modify our usual activities (and restaurant habits) to minimize COVID risk. But staying home and hiding in the basement is just not our style. As to COVID, many folks have completely ignored common sense. When folks crowd into a club or bar or go onto the streets as part of a crowd they are playing Russian Roulette with the virus. Not wearing a decent mask (we only use N95 or KN95) when near other folks is just folly. And hiding in one's basement is very bad for one's mental health! Like most things in life there is compromise that balances risk and reward. Speaking of FL we are heading there for a short (8 day) trip in December! Our plans include flying into FLL, renting a car, and driving down to Key West where we stay at an upscale Suite Hotel where social distancing in not a problem. We know restaurants where we can dine outdoors (or indoors) and social distancing is not a problem. We will then drive up to another hotel (near Ft Myers) that is located on a beach and somewhat isolated. Again we will have no problem social distancing on the beach (and when swimming the sea) and will carefully choose our restaurants for quality and safety. Our major area of risk will by flying, but statistics seem to indicate that flying is not a particularly great risk and we will use common sense while wearing our N95 masks, social distancing to the extent possible, and practicing frequent hand washing. Is this kind of trip risk free? Nope. On the other hand, hiding in a CA basement might get you killed if there is an earthquake or a meteor crashes into your home. Hank 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JazzyV Posted October 20, 2020 #57 Share Posted October 20, 2020 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Hlitner said: As to COVID, many folks have completely ignored common sense. When folks crowd into a club or bar or go onto the streets as part of a crowd they are playing Russian Roulette with the virus. Not wearing a decent mask (we only use N95 or KN95) when near other folks is just folly. And hiding in one's basement is very bad for one's mental health! Like most things in life there is compromise that balances risk and reward. Hank Where do you find N95 masks or legitimate KN95 masks? I'm on 3 immunosuppressants and so have been pretty much staying in except for Dr. appointments and curbside grocery pick-ups. I've looked online but couldn't find affordable N95 masks. Edited October 20, 2020 by JazzyV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senorjim Posted October 20, 2020 #58 Share Posted October 20, 2020 20 hours ago, d9704011 said: Fro Canadian travellers looking for COVID-19 medical coverage try: Medipac Tour+Med Blue Cross Manulife I have only looked at Medipac's wording. They offer only $500,000 coverage for covid. I wonder many days would that last in ICU in the USA? Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iancal Posted October 20, 2020 #59 Share Posted October 20, 2020 We are not considering any travel to the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennybear Posted October 20, 2020 #60 Share Posted October 20, 2020 2 hours ago, JazzyV said: Where do you find N95 masks or legitimate KN95 masks? I'm on 3 immunosuppressants and so have been pretty much staying in except for Dr. appointments and curbside grocery pick-ups. I've looked online but couldn't find affordable N95 masks. the big box store had the kn95 last week. 2 hours ago, senorjim said: I have only looked at Medipac's wording. They offer only $500,000 coverage for covid. I wonder many days would that last in ICU in the USA? Jim Sadly, probably not long enough. I read one case where it was well over one Million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Mary229 Posted October 20, 2020 #61 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Wyze, the people famous for Wyze cameras has KN95 masks always. I think they ship to Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d9704011 Posted October 20, 2020 #62 Share Posted October 20, 2020 4 hours ago, senorjim said: I have only looked at Medipac's wording. They offer only $500,000 coverage for covid. I wonder many days would that last in ICU in the USA? Jim No idea on the ‘daily rate’ in an ICU. Not only is the max $500K, that’s in Canadian dollars so about USD 370K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Mary229 Posted October 20, 2020 #63 Share Posted October 20, 2020 24 minutes ago, d9704011 said: No idea on the ‘daily rate’ in an ICU. Not only is the max $500K, that’s in Canadian dollars so about USD 370K. My sister who worked in "the Covid hospital" in New Orleans during the early crisis and worked exclusively with Covid patients during that period estimates the cost of maximum Covid care is $40-60K, that would be for an individual isolated in ICU with a respirator. That treatment is no longer used as widespread as it had been initially. In the US Covid care is paid for by the federal government but I don't know if that extends to visitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Hlitner Posted October 20, 2020 #64 Share Posted October 20, 2020 7 hours ago, JazzyV said: Where do you find N95 masks or legitimate KN95 masks? I'm on 3 immunosuppressants and so have been pretty much staying in except for Dr. appointments and curbside grocery pick-ups. I've looked online but couldn't find affordable N95 masks. I guess the optimal word is "affordable" and N95 masks can be a bit pricy. On the other hand if you get a decent one they do last a while if you are careful. KN95s are easier to find and many places sell them online. Even on Amazon you can buy certified KN95 masks for less then $2 per piece. In our case DD ordered, back in March, several dozen N95s and KN95s and we still have a supply. The thing is that folks will go out and buy cheap masks made of a single layer of whatever and they get something that is not very effective. For a few dollars per mask one can get pretty decent 3 layer N95 and KN95 masks. A good compromise would be to look for multi layer masks that don't have a rating (better then nothing). But it is almost laughable when you see folks wearing knitted masks (you can even see light through those) or single layer fabric. We also bought 100 multi layer surgical-type masks (no rating) that are relatively common and better then nothing. They are relatively inexpensive and most folks use them multiple times even though the experts will tell you to only use a mask once. Even our own physician is wearing that type of mask. Hank 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkacruiser Posted October 21, 2020 #65 Share Posted October 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Hlitner said: Even our own physician is wearing that type of mask. Maybe some rationality is starting to come into the minds of even the professionals? This morning was my 3rd appointment with my PCP during the pandemic. Still wearing a mask, but he was not wearing the other outer protective gear that seemed so "out of place" for an office appointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSJ711 Posted October 21, 2020 #66 Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, Hlitner said: Yes, one can certainly choose to keep themselves in semi-isolation (even in their basement) for the next few years or until COVID is under control (whatever occurs first). However, some of us are getting older and prefer to live our lives. And yes, it is possible to live one's life with COVID by using some common sense. We have already taken some trips (including 2 weeks in South Carolina) and were able to social distance and carefully choose restaurants that minimized risk. This winter we will live in Puerto Vallarta (our usual winter home) where we will certainly modify our usual activities (and restaurant habits) to minimize COVID risk. But staying home and hiding in the basement is just not our style. As to COVID, many folks have completely ignored common sense. When folks crowd into a club or bar or go onto the streets as part of a crowd they are playing Russian Roulette with the virus. Not wearing a decent mask (we only use N95 or KN95) when near other folks is just folly. And hiding in one's basement is very bad for one's mental health! Like most things in life there is compromise that balances risk and reward. Speaking of FL we are heading there for a short (8 day) trip in December! Our plans include flying into FLL, renting a car, and driving down to Key West where we stay at an upscale Suite Hotel where social distancing in not a problem. We know restaurants where we can dine outdoors (or indoors) and social distancing is not a problem. We will then drive up to another hotel (near Ft Myers) that is located on a beach and somewhat isolated. Again we will have no problem social distancing on the beach (and when swimming the sea) and will carefully choose our restaurants for quality and safety. Our major area of risk will by flying, but statistics seem to indicate that flying is not a particularly great risk and we will use common sense while wearing our N95 masks, social distancing to the extent possible, and practicing frequent hand washing. Is this kind of trip risk free? Nope. On the other hand, hiding in a CA basement might get you killed if there is an earthquake or a meteor crashes into your home. Hank In several CC comments -- including four times in this post alone -- you say that folks who choose not to travel right now are "hiding in the basement," as if we're all cowering in the face of Covid. There's really no reason to demean others for their decisions in life. You can enjoy your travels without resorting to unnecessary and belittling language. Try to be a little more sensitive. Edited October 21, 2020 by DaveSJ711 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABoatNerd Posted October 21, 2020 #67 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Hlitner, your words are a breath of common sense. Our extended family are beyond fed up with the isolation and hiding and cowering, the frozen hell is arriving here soon and the weather has been below normal temperatures, gloom and rain since August, an awful late summer and fall. We are leaving soon for our annual October Hilton Head golfing trip. Have to fly of course, cause the border is closed, would rather drive. Have everything lined up for a nice week, then a drive down to Alabama to do the Robert Jones golf trail. Plan to be away a month or more. Can hardly wait to have many biscuits. Time is precious and it is slipping away, so not waiting anymore to live it. Moving on. We wear the N95s and a shield and use gloves when purchasing in stores. Not doing any more than that. The circumstances in the great USA are no more "scary" than the cases here in Ontario and Quebec - so off we go. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Hlitner Posted October 21, 2020 #68 Share Posted October 21, 2020 10 hours ago, DaveSJ711 said: In several CC comments -- including four times in this post alone -- you say that folks who choose not to travel right now are "hiding in the basement," as if we're all cowering in the face of Covid. There's really no reason to demean others for their decisions in life. You can enjoy your travels without resorting to unnecessary and belittling language. Try to be a little more sensitive. No, I do not think so. Using a metaphor is a great way to describe what has happened to our society with folks scared out of their minds and "hiding in their basements." I do understand that our society has put itself into a place where most folks are deterred from speaking their mind (it is called freedom of speech) and quickly become quiet when anyone accuses them of being "insensitive," "offensive," "xenophobic," etc. I am not buying it! So lets add some truth to the discussion. Millions have died (over several hundred years) to win and maintain our freedom and rights. But now, much of society cowers "in their basements" and has readily given away many of their RIGHTS in the name of public health. While this might make sense in light of the seriousness of COVID, history tells us that once you give up your rights they are gone. Politicians and some scientists have now discovered they wield incredible power by simply invoking "it is is the interests of public health." Using this moniker they have taken away some fundamental rights such as Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Assembly, and even our freedom to travel. Anyone who dares to challenge these folks gets labeled as being insensitive? I think not. Yes, COVID is a dangerous problem but there needs to be some balance and common sense applied to how we deal with this problem. Allowing a few to trample all over our rights (without any due process) is just wrong! Allowing a single agency (CDC) without a single elected official to shut down the entire cruise industry (without due process) and most of the travel industry (without any due process) scares me a lot more then COVID. If this rant hurts your feeling please get over it! Hank 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuthC Posted October 21, 2020 #69 Share Posted October 21, 2020 36 minutes ago, Hlitner said: No, I do not think so. Perhaps then you should take some time and consider the merits of DaveSJ's post. They are there if you look. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted October 21, 2020 #70 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Hank, sorry to see the underlying current of your comments. The have a bit of conspiracy in them. I understand your point but what would you have us do instead? We could do what the White House’s latest flunky says and just establish herd immunity in the “manly way”, of course multiple million people would die but hey, we maintain our right to choose. Life is full of rules for the greater good, you can’t yell fire in a theatre, you have to wear seat belts, a helmet when on a motorcycle, stay within speed limits on the highway. These are to protect us from ourselves. China has shown what a severe but relatively short term sacrifice can do to significantly reduce the virus impact. They just report their economy grew almost 5% last quarter and are pretty much back to normal. We took the pain of a shutdown but did it in such a half ass way that we did not get any benefit other then the fatigue of restrictions. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted October 21, 2020 #71 Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, ABoatNerd said: Hlitner, your words are a breath of common sense. Our extended family are beyond fed up with the isolation and hiding and cowering, the frozen hell is arriving here soon and the weather has been below normal temperatures, gloom and rain since August, an awful late summer and fall. We are leaving soon for our annual October Hilton Head golfing trip. Have to fly of course, cause the border is closed, would rather drive. Have everything lined up for a nice week, then a drive down to Alabama to do the Robert Jones golf trail. Plan to be away a month or more. Can hardly wait to have many biscuits. Time is precious and it is slipping away, so not waiting anymore to live it. Moving on. We wear the N95s and a shield and use gloves when purchasing in stores. Not doing any more than that. The circumstances in the great USA are no more "scary" than the cases here in Ontario and Quebec - so off we go. And those of you who choose to engage in riskier behavior are free to do so. Just understand it is people like you that keep the virus alive and spreading. I also remind you of the risk you share with the first responders when you do get sick. Edited October 21, 2020 by KirkNC 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tampa Girl Posted October 21, 2020 #72 Share Posted October 21, 2020 45 minutes ago, Hlitner said: No, I do not think so. Using a metaphor is a great way to describe what has happened to our society with folks scared out of their minds and "hiding in their basements." I do understand that our society has put itself into a place where most folks are deterred from speaking their mind (it is called freedom of speech) and quickly become quiet when anyone accuses them of being "insensitive," "offensive," "xenophobic," etc. I am not buying it! So lets add some truth to the discussion. Millions have died (over several hundred years) to win and maintain our freedom and rights. But now, much of society cowers "in their basements" and has readily given away many of their RIGHTS in the name of public health. While this might make sense in light of the seriousness of COVID, history tells us that once you give up your rights they are gone. Politicians and some scientists have now discovered they wield incredible power by simply invoking "it is is the interests of public health." Using this moniker they have taken away some fundamental rights such as Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Assembly, and even our freedom to travel. Anyone who dares to challenge these folks gets labeled as being insensitive? I think not. Yes, COVID is a dangerous problem but there needs to be some balance and common sense applied to how we deal with this problem. Allowing a few to trample all over our rights (without any due process) is just wrong! Allowing a single agency (CDC) without a single elected official to shut down the entire cruise industry (without due process) and most of the travel industry (without any due process) scares me a lot more then COVID. If this rant hurts your feeling please get over it! Hank Our "rights" have not been taken away. They have, in some states or communities been temporarily and partially suspended, but that is a far cry from our rights being erradicated. Furthermore, any rights granted our citizens come with exceptions and responsibilities. Attempting to slow down the spread of a pandemic is one such responsibility. Unfortunately, too many of our citizens deny this aspect of "rights." 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wonderingabout Posted October 21, 2020 #73 Share Posted October 21, 2020 It is amazing how everybody knows the truth about how to approach the Virus and and how different the truth is depending on the person. And it is amazing how anybody who does not follow the truth as he sees its is either foolish because he is too adverse to risks that don't exist. ie Foolish to hide in the basement. Or Foolish because not only does he risk infecting himself but risks infecting everybody else. ie Foolish not to be wearing a mask. (When and where depends on the opinion of the responder) ie. Foolish not to be wearing a particular type of mask. (Gaiter is okay, or gaiter is not okay, multi layered. cover the nose. N95 only.) The one constant in all the varying opinions is "follow the science" is the rule.. Amazing how science seems to vary from person to person. When we say follow the science we are presuming to say follow the facts BUT: Perhaps a better definition of the rule is "Follow the Scientists". Scientists are all over the board on the issue of the spread of the virus because they have their own opinions, hypothesis and theories. They are just as human as we are. We can pick the scientist or group of scientists that we like best or sounds the best and rely on him or her or them. Scientists that match our preconceived opinions, our natural inclinations are the ones we quote and accept as gospel However the best scientists are those who say different things at different times so they can be relied on to support different positions. Dr. Fauci is a good example. In March Masks are useless and in May Masks are necessary. AND NO the facts did not change rather he says he was lying in March but for a good cause. Or No we should not gather in large groups for Thanksgiving but no comment on protestors gathering in mass in cities and towns. AND NO the facts did not change rather he will not comment on protests group gathering which would be a political comment and might make him seem partisan and not a saint who is above politics whereas he sees nothing to lose on commenting on thanksgiving gatherings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Mary229 Posted October 21, 2020 #74 Share Posted October 21, 2020 (edited) If you are offended by another’s forum post remember there is a report button. I believe in an active discussion but not personal attacks Edited October 21, 2020 by Mary229 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horizon chaser 1957 Posted October 21, 2020 #75 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, KirkNC said: Hank, sorry to see the underlying current of your comments. The have a bit of conspiracy in them. I understand your point but what would you have us do instead? We could do what the White House’s latest flunky says and just establish herd immunity in the “manly way”, of course multiple million people would die but hey, we maintain our right to choose. Life is full of rules for the greater good, you can’t yell fire in a theatre, you have to wear seat belts, a helmet when on a motorcycle, stay within speed limits on the highway. These are to protect us from ourselves. China has shown what a severe but relatively short term sacrifice can do to significantly reduce the virus impact. They just report their economy grew almost 5% last quarter and are pretty much back to normal. We took the pain of a shutdown but did it in such a half ass way that we did not get any benefit other then the fatigue of restrictions. Well said. Our daughter and SIL live in Taipei, where the Diamond Princess stopped just a couple of days before her horror show in Japan. Taiwan went into a very tight lockdown for a fairly short time. SARS devastated Taiwan in it’s day, and the plan developed from those lessons was put into place immediately. There was no problem with people complying with mask wearing. As a result, they don’t need to any more. With the exception of international travel, their lives went back to normal months ago. My daughter now has social freedoms that we haven’t had since we left the Amsterdam in Fremantle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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