90% effective vaccine EVEN without booster shot...

[A&L_Ont]

2020, thank God they aren’t delivering the vaccine in 737Max planes.
 

The year might be looking up. 

[firefly333]

11 hours ago, broberts said:

One of the committees that is involved in the approval process does not meet until Dec 10. Trucks would be less expensive and just as effective for prepositioning doses.

Lol I just heard a follow up that United is flying between Brussels and Belgium and Ohare, with twice the regular amount of dry ice usually allowed.

 

Pretty hard to drive a truck over water. They want to start vaccinations on the 11th and have them in place.

 

Will still be months for the rest of us.

 

I'm wondering if it's made overseas, that's why it has to be flown in.

[BND]

On 11/25/2020 at 2:23 PM, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Sigh.  If you don't want to respect my concerns, that's fine.  Cancer and sterility are two that jumped into my mind.  But your attitude to cancer is "it's out there, you're going to get exposed, so don't do anything about it"?  

 

I have said repeatedly (but it doesn't fit your and others narrative) that I am not against vaccines and I'm not against THIS vaccine.  I really and truly hope it works.  I will feel more comfortable after many many more people have taken it.  You want to be first in line, go for it.  I don't think that makes you stupid, idiotic, self centered, or any of the other things people have called me because I said I want to wait.  

Maybe because your "concerns" are things you just came up with out of thin air.  It's the type of things that people hear as rumor and make a decision based on something that just isn't proven in any way.  So, you're fine with everyone else getting it before you.  What if everyone felt that way?  You do have to look at the greater good sometimes.  There is zero indication of any side effects that aren't common with many other vaccines.  My issue is you are just making stuff up as you go along.  How do you live life if you're afraid of the unknown?  But, you do you and let others take the risk for you I guess.

Edited November 28, 2020 by BND

[firefly333]

52 minutes ago, BND said:

Maybe because your "concerns" are things you just came up with out of thin air.  It's the type of things that people hear as rumor and make a decision based on something that just isn't proven in any way.  So, you're fine with everyone else getting it before you.  What if everyone felt that way?  You do have to look at the greater good sometimes.  There is zero indication of any side effects that aren't common with many other vaccines.  My issue is you are just making stuff up as you go along.  How do you live life if you're afraid of the unknown?  But, you do you and let others take the risk for you I guess.

Lol I especially like the cancer or sterility worry from taking a vaccine. 

 

I'm 70, I think it's too late for me to worry about sterility is why it strikes me funny. I want to feel safe. I think some people are into conspiracy theories a bit too deep. 

[REEtired]

I’m 70 and am dealing with stage 4 metastatic breast cancer so every 3 weeks I get two “foreign” substances infused into my body. Bring on the vaccine so I can leave the house other than for treatment.  Oh how I miss cruising!🛳

[S.A.M.J.R.]

4 hours ago, BND said:

Maybe because your "concerns" are things you just came up with out of thin air.  It's the type of things that people hear as rumor and make a decision based on something that just isn't proven in any way.  So, you're fine with everyone else getting it before you.  What if everyone felt that way?  You do have to look at the greater good sometimes.  There is zero indication of any side effects that aren't common with many other vaccines.  My issue is you are just making stuff up as you go along.  How do you live life if you're afraid of the unknown?  But, you do you and let others take the risk for you I guess.

What if everyone decided to jump off a bridge?  I guess since everyone agrees that's the best thing to do, I should go along?  Just using your logic.

 

And I agree, there have been only minor side effects.  In the TWO (maybe three) months they've been testing?  Do you have another vaccine or medicine  that you take that's only been out for a couple of months?

 

And wait, first you say there are no indications of any side effects, but then say I'm letting others take "risks" for me.  What risks are they taking if things are "totally safe"?  

 

[nomad098]

On 11/24/2020 at 11:49 PM, S.A.M.J.R. said:

So you're fine with the vaccine if you find out in 10-20 years it causes cancer?  Or makes you (or your kids) sterile?  I can take precautions so I don't get hit by a bus.  If I take the vaccine, that's it, there's no precautions over long term side effects.  That worries me.  It may not worry you, and that's fine.  I'd never try to dissuade someone from getting a vaccine.  

 

4 hours ago, BND said:

Maybe because your "concerns" are things you just came up with out of thin air.  It's the type of things that people hear as rumor and make a decision based on something that just isn't proven in any way.  

 

Cancer treatment mRNA were specifically being used to change DNA and epigenetic DNA in cells using a R-loop to alter proteins causing cancer cells. There are many studies showing mRNA can inhibit or enable cancer cell reproduction

 

Many papers have shown that mRNA and its subsets can alter the fertility of both men and women. It was being looked at to treat infertile males or as a form of contraception.

 

Plenty of studies in the transgenerational ability of mRNA and the subsets of this in DNA. This was specifically shown in zebrafish, zebrafish are used because their DNA matches ours around 80%, it is easier to follow changes through life cycles and they have a commonality of disease profiles.

 

The poster is not exactly pulling theories out of thin air.

 

mRNA vaccine should be safe in the long term as it only uses part of the genetic code of the SARS COV 2 that creates the spike protein. Your natural immunity should then neutralize the infected cells. In the short term this seems to be the case but long term implications and consequences are unknown and can only be said to be theoretically safe.

 

Part of the problem is that main stream media, social media, fact checking organisations, scientific advisers, cruise critic posters and governments are calling genuine concerns over mRNA vaccines fake news, anti vaxxer propaganda or misinformation without reference to the body of scientific work that took place pre pandemic in the rush to produce and have a vaccine.

[MommaBear55]

On 11/24/2020 at 6:49 PM, S.A.M.J.R. said:

So you're fine with the vaccine if you find out in 10-20 years it causes cancer?  Or makes you (or your kids) sterile?  I can take precautions so I don't get hit by a bus.  If I take the vaccine, that's it, there's no precautions over long term side effects.  That worries me.  It may not worry you, and that's fine.  I'd never try to dissuade someone from getting a vaccine.  

The good news is that we've been using vaccines for 65 plus years and neither of your doomsday predictions have even come close to happening. I also walk outside without worrying about a plane falling on me, which actually has happened to a few people. 

[S.A.M.J.R.]

17 minutes ago, MommaBear55 said:

The good news is that we've been using vaccines for 65 plus years and neither of your doomsday predictions have even come close to happening. I also walk outside without worrying about a plane falling on me, which actually has happened to a few people. 

Correct.  There have been some vaccines recalled over time however.  Granted, not serious.  But I still worry about putting a vaccine in my body that has been tested for a couple of months.  I don't worry about an airplane falling from the sky since people have been flying airplanes for over 100 years.  

[Tree_skier]

42 minutes ago, MommaBear55 said:

The good news is that we've been using vaccines for 65 plus years and neither of your doomsday predictions have even come close to happening. I also walk outside without worrying about a plane falling on me, which actually has happened to a few people. 

But you’re worried about a virus that 99.86% of people recover from. 

[time4u2go]

31 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

But you’re worried about a virus that 99.86% of people recover from. 

Where do you get that number from? It seems a bit high. 

Edited November 28, 2020 by time4u2go

[broberts]

1 hour ago, MommaBear55 said:

The good news is that we've been using vaccines for 65 plus years and neither of your doomsday predictions have even come close to happening. I also walk outside without worrying about a plane falling on me, which actually has happened to a few people. 

 

There has never been an approved mRNA vaccine. So while we have a great deal of experience with vaccines in general, we have almost no experience with vaccines of the type likely to be approved shortly. a

 

We do know that injecting foreign substances into humans can sometimes have extremely negative effects. Sometimes these effects are not evident for years. In fact the reason there is a lengthy approval process is due to the bitter lessons of rushing drugs to use.

 

Some people are more cautious than others. It's part of what makes us so successful as a species. I don't understand why this can not be tolerated by some.

[MommaBear55]

11 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

There has never been an approved mRNA vaccine. So while we have a great deal of experience with vaccines in general, we have almost no experience with vaccines of the type likely to be approved shortly. a

 

We do know that injecting foreign substances into humans can sometimes have extremely negative effects. Sometimes these effects are not evident for years. In fact the reason there is a lengthy approval process is due to the bitter lessons of rushing drugs to use.

 

Some people are more cautious than others. It's part of what makes us so successful as a species. I don't understand why this can not be tolerated by some.

I understand why some people don't get vaccines, as it was part of my practice. I also worked in a setting where I had to be vaccinated to have a job. I'm also old enough to remember the relief my parents felt when there was a vaccine for polio. What I don't understand is those who are rumor mongering and fear spreading before the results of the studies are even available. Want to wait to make sure a vaccine is safe? Great, I support that. Start rumors that it's going to cause cancer? No, that makes no sense. Will it cause cancer 20 years down the road? We'll know in 20 years.

[A&L_Ont]

14 minutes ago, broberts said:

We do know that injecting foreign substances into humans can sometimes have extremely negative effects.

As I read this all I could think of is Peter Parker.
 

I wish I could have posted some of the other Spider-Man meme’s I found, but I don’t want a time out. 😂
 

[Tree_skier]

1 hour ago, time4u2go said:

Where do you get that number from? It seems a bit high. 

Stanford University peer reviewed study conducted by John Ioannidis. He reviewed the data from 61 studies world wide and the median IFR was .27%

[time4u2go]

6 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

Stanford University peer reviewed study conducted by John Ioannidis. He reviewed the data from 61 studies world wide and the median IFR was .27%

How does .27% translate into 99.86% survival rate? 

Edited November 29, 2020 by time4u2go

[Ocean Boy]

50 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

As I read this all I could think of is Peter Parker.
 

I wish I could have posted some of the other Spider-Man meme’s I found, but I don’t want a time out. 😂
 

 

But it is such an elite club.🙂

[firefly333]

2 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

Stanford University peer reviewed study conducted by John Ioannidis. He reviewed the data from 61 studies world wide and the median IFR was .27%

I'm getting afraid to post news I see on tv. If I post it, people ask where is my source, so I google it, like that the vaccine flights started yesterday.. then I have to carefully pick a newspaper where I'm not accused of being political, when it's a random site I goggled to show i didnt make up the news.

 

Lol. Whatever stats you post, people will question imo. Doesnt matter, even if it was on the tv news someone will call you out on it. 

 

We all need a cruise and get back fo having fun instead of this bickering. 

[Tree_skier]

5 minutes ago, time4u2go said:

How does .27% translate into 99.86% survival rate? 

It doesn't I misstated the number by 3/100th of a percent. I was posting from memory and not from the original study data. It was to late for me to edit the post. It should read 99.73 percent.  Sorry for the inaccuracy.

[Milwaukee Eight]

7 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

But it is such an elite club.🙂

Thanks 😇

[S.A.M.J.R.]

1 hour ago, MommaBear55 said:

Start rumors that it's going to cause cancer? No, that makes no sense.

It's a good thing that's not what I'm doing.  I simply said we could find out it causes cancer or sterility or many other things (good and bad) years down the road.  If you read it as me saying the vaccine is going to cause cancer, I suggest you go back and read again.  

[S.A.M.J.R.]

11 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Whatever stats you post, people will question imo. Doesnt matter, even if it was on the tv news someone will call you out on it. 

What is wrong with skepticism?  We should be questioning "facts".  Not just about this disease and vaccine, about almost everything.  Just because it's on TV (like the internet) doesn't mean it's true.  

 

IMO, if you want to present something you saw on TV, it should be easy to find the story online and link to it.  Why?  Because *I* want to know that what you heard and reported is actually what was reported.  AND, where did the reporter get their information?   

 

Remember the game "telephone"?  We played it in grade school.  The teacher would whisper a sentence in one student's ear, they'd whisper what they heard to another student, etc, etc.  By the time the last person heard it, it was usually no where near what it started as. 

[Ocean Boy]

16 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Thanks 😇

Perhaps RCI could create a new lounge for those of us in the club? Then you won't care so much about the Pins in the suite lounge.😇... and I might never enter the Diamond lounge again.☺

[BND]

32 minutes ago, Tree_skier said:

Stanford University peer reviewed study conducted by John Ioannidis. He reviewed the data from 61 studies world wide and the median IFR was .27%

We know at least 10 people who have tested positive and had symptoms and every single one has recovered just fine. They were all well over 40, most over 60.   For some reason some do not focus on the 99+% recovery but the "numbers" of deaths, which most have been in 80+ year olds with other illnesses.  Ever notice it's stated as "Covid related" and not "Covid caused"?   Related isn't caused.  This fear mongering by SOME about the vaccine isn't going to help anyone.  In the past people ran to get polio vaccines to save their children, not knowing anything about any side effects.  They just wanted to protect their children.

 

 

[BND]

1 hour ago, MommaBear55 said:

I understand why some people don't get vaccines, as it was part of my practice. I also worked in a setting where I had to be vaccinated to have a job. I'm also old enough to remember the relief my parents felt when there was a vaccine for polio. What I don't understand is those who are rumor mongering and fear spreading before the results of the studies are even available. Want to wait to make sure a vaccine is safe? Great, I support that. Start rumors that it's going to cause cancer? No, that makes no sense. Will it cause cancer 20 years down the road? We'll know in 20 years.

Just like we'll know in 20 years about the newest Shringrix vaccine, yet you don't hear people starting rumors about it, right?  You are correct about parents relief about previous vaccines.  Now, so many seem to think everything is a conspiracy.