What about the un-vaccinated?

[kimanjo]

What I wonder about is the maybe 30-50% who say they will NOT take the vaccine. That is potentially 100 to 160 million people in the US. Does the virus still run rampant? Isn't herd immunity at least 70%?   What % of infected ( unvaccinated) end up hospitialized?  10-20% ??  Thats a LOT of people. That still leaves an overburdened healthcare system.  Certainly that does not mean everything goes back to normal.  Human cost + economic cost seems devastating if those people cannot be convinced to take the vaccine.  

[rucrazy]

29 minutes ago, kimanjo said:

What I wonder about is the maybe 30-50% who say they will NOT take the vaccine.

No offense intended but those folks are selfish.....

Anyone that would choose not protect their fellow travelers are folks I would not want to sail with in the first place...

Everyone has their right not to be vaccinated just like I have the right to be assured when I board a ship I will be protected from disease and death...I can understand apprehension, against an unknown vaccine and if that is the case maybe they shouldn't be  booking in the first place..

jmho

Joseph

[Tothesunset]

If only these anti-vaxxers would contract the deadly diseases that the vaccines protect against, a large number of morons would be removed from the gene pool. 

[Randyk47]

43 minutes ago, kimanjo said:

What I wonder about is the maybe 30-50% who say they will NOT take the vaccine. That is potentially 100 to 160 million people in the US. Does the virus still run rampant? Isn't herd immunity at least 70%?   What % of infected ( unvaccinated) end up hospitialized?  10-20% ??  Thats a LOT of people. That still leaves an overburdened healthcare system.  Certainly that does not mean everything goes back to normal.  Human cost + economic cost seems devastating if those people cannot be convinced to take the vaccine.  

We’re still in the more questions than answers phase.  We seem to be seeing some evidence that not everybody who catches Covid-19 develops long lasting antibodies.   Are they still somehow immune or not?   We don’t know exactly what that means in terms of herd immunity.   We still don’t understand the multiple and varied symptoms.   We don’t know if the virus will mutate and to what extent.   We don’t know if the Pfizer vaccine, or any other vaccine for that matter, will provide long term immunity or will require periodic boosters whether the virus mutates or not.   We don’t know if, like with some other vaccines, will everybody be able to take it because of other health issues.   

Edited November 11, 2020 by Randyk47

[cruiseej]

4 hours ago, kimanjo said:

What I wonder about is the maybe 30-50% who say they will NOT take the vaccine.

 

I'd also consider that the number of people who say they won't get the vaccine will probably decline over time, if it turns out there's a reliable and safe vaccine. People said they wouldn't get a vaccine when it was being described as rushed, when it was politicized, and when nothing was known about how effective it would be. If we can take the politics out of it, if the efficacy rate is better than expected, if there are no bad side effects, if multiple vaccines prove effective, if... lots of ifs, but I think more people will end up getting vaccinated if all goes well.

[MBP&O2/O]

22 hours ago, kimanjo said:

What I wonder about is the maybe 30-50% who say they will NOT take the vaccine. That is potentially 100 to 160 million people in the US. Does the virus still run rampant? Isn't herd immunity at least 70%?   What % of infected ( unvaccinated) end up hospitialized?  10-20% ??  Thats a LOT of people. That still leaves an overburdened healthcare system.  Certainly that does not mean everything goes back to normal.  Human cost + economic cost seems devastating if those people cannot be convinced to take the vaccine.  

Easy solution as far a cruising is concerned. 
Either produce a vaccination certificate or be denied boarding.

 

As they say in the UK “The management reserves the right to refuse admission”

 

[Roger88]

9 minutes ago, MBP&O2/O said:

Easy solution as far a cruising is concerned. 
Either produce a vaccination certificate or be denied boarding.

 

As they say in the UK “The management reserves the right to refuse admission”

 

I think that people who go through vaccine testing should receive a permanent pass, like some online pass where their name is inserted in some world program and every time you board the ship or a plane they check whether you are vaccinated or not 

[taxatty]

9 minutes ago, MBP&O2/O said:

Easy solution as far a cruising is concerned. 
Either produce a vaccination certificate or be denied boarding.

 

As they say in the UK “The management reserves the right to refuse admission”

 

Agreed--that may very well be the standard once a reliable vaccine exists and is widely disseminated, because the cruise lines may come to the conclusion that is the only way they can fill their ships to capacity. 

[MBP&O2/O]

Indeed ... it is / was called a Record of Vaccinations and was recognised Internationally.

They were mandatory when I went to sea, 

[Roger88]

7 minutes ago, taxatty said:

Agreed--that may very well be the standard once a reliable vaccine exists and is widely disseminated, because the cruise lines may come to the conclusion that is the only way they can fill their ships to capacity. 

"Reliable" vaccine will take another 2-3 years to appear. These only volunteers are being vaccinated. We dont know and we can't know what effects it will have on a human immune system. I would be very careful with it 

[rucrazy]

41 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

"Reliable" vaccine will take another 2-3 years to appear.We dont know and we can't know what effects it will have on a human immune system. 

I will be shouting.... AGREED! 

Joseph

[Covepointcruiser]

Guess you can get to the back of the line or out of the line for the COVID vaccine.    The one that is 90% effective will be given to healthcare provides after the U.S. Thanksgiving.   If you don’t want it, it will just mean more doses for the rest of us.   Don’t think the U.S. will force anyone to get the vaccine but it may be required for children to attend in person school.

[Gourmet Gal]

On 11/12/2020 at 10:40 AM, Roger88 said:

"Reliable" vaccine will take another 2-3 years to appear. These only volunteers are being vaccinated. We dont know and we can't know what effects it will have on a human immune system. I would be very careful with it 

Are you an immunologist?  What does it matter if only volunteers are being vaccinated as long as they are human subjects?

[kimanjo]

On 11/13/2020 at 6:14 PM, Covepointcruiser said:

Guess you can get to the back of the line or out of the line for the COVID vaccine.    The one that is 90% effective will be given to healthcare provides after the U.S. Thanksgiving.   If you don’t want it, it will just mean more doses for the rest of us.   Don’t think the U.S. will force anyone to get the vaccine but it may be required for children to attend in person school.

 

If/when the 1st people to receive this after Thanksgiving? are the healthcare providers, I assume it's to keep them as safe as possible to care for the absolute huge wave of hospitalizations that are about come. I feel so badly for them.  

I don't think the US will force anyone either, but since this is a Cruise board, I suspect the cruise lines, and a lot of countries WILL require proof of immunization. So some travelers are going to have to decide how much of their anti-vax philosophy they're  willing to stick with.

[Camillus112]

Then there are travelers like me, who cannot get a vaccine due to an immunological condition which could be triggered.  I do not even get a Flu shot!  With regards to the Flu, it's been great that most people get vaccinated and I have never gotten the Flu, even though I am very active and sociable.  People like me will have to wait years for all to get the vaccine before I can enjoy cruising again.  So I'll wait, and will travel virtually with all your posts. 

[Randyk47]

14 minutes ago, Camillus112 said:

Then there are travelers like me, who cannot get a vaccine due to an immunological condition which could be triggered.  I do not even get a Flu shot!  With regards to the Flu, it's been great that most people get vaccinated and I have never gotten the Flu, even though I am very active and sociable.  People like me will have to wait years for all to get the vaccine before I can enjoy cruising again.  So I'll wait, and will travel virtually with all your posts. 

 My wife is in much the same situation.  Her hematologist told her she would decide if  and when my wife gets any of the Covid vaccines assuming more than one becomes available. She did allow that Covid risks might outweigh the risks of taking a vaccine.   She doesn’t feel the same way about the flu vaccine and does not recommend my wife take a flu shot.   Helps my wife has no history of getting the flu, at least not in the 24 years we’ve been together.  

[cruiseej]

Keep in mind that there are a number of different COVID vaccine candidates being tested, and they use some remarkably different approaches. The Pfizer vaccine, for instance is a new type of RNA technology which has never been deployed in a vaccine before. Whether it will be recommended for people who don't get flu shots or have other immune system issues is not yet known.

 

Nor is it known if it will be as effective for older people; some vaccines like flu vaccines protect younger people better than older people. Some of the other vaccines under development but further behind in testing may prove better for older people. (A few contain immune-stimulating particles similar to the Shingrix shingles vaccine, which is highly effective at protecting older people.)

 

We have no idea if the Pfizer vaccine will actually be found to have 90% effectiveness; the announcement last week was based on a pretty small sample size. And, of course, we have no idea if the Pfizer vaccine will end up being the most effective as others complete their clinical testing over the next 3 to 6 months.

 

All of which suggests simply that no one should be making assumptions today about who COVID vaccines will or won't be safe for, until more information emerges in the months ahead.

[rucrazy]

13 minutes ago, cruiseej said:

which suggests simply that no one should be making assumptions today about who COVID vaccines will or won't be safe for, until more information emerges in the months ahead.

Very good point @cruiseej!

Joseph

[clo]

22 hours ago, Camillus112 said:

 So I'll wait, and will travel virtually with all your posts. 

But you will be able, IMO, to do non-cruise travel more safely and sooner.

[Camillus112]

1 hour ago, clo said:

But you will be able, IMO, to do non-cruise travel more safely and sooner.

 

Yes, I will by car, but probably not by airplane.  When the vaccine/s are disseminated throughout, I would be protected by others' protection (as is happening now with the Flu).  However, I have read that airplanes will most probably require proof of vaccination in order to board, just like cruise lines would.  At some point (at which I may or may not benefit), the virus will be generally controlled and I will be able to cruise!!

Edited November 16, 2020 by Camillus112

[Covepointcruiser]

From the studies released, the Moderna vaccine has shown it is especially effective for older folks.   I hope I can get the Moderna instead of the Pfizer vaccine.

[Randyk47]

15 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said:

From the studies released, the Moderna vaccine has shown it is especially effective for older folks.   I hope I can get the Moderna instead of the Pfizer vaccine.

There has been some discussion, probably best described as speculation, that there might be some regional distribution of the different vaccines.   I’ve seen nothing I’d describe as official that says anything along the lines that potentially the southern states will get this vaccine, the westerner states a different vaccine, and so on.   We’re still relying on my wife’s hematologist to hopefully determine and pick the right vaccine for her assuming any are safe.   

[Randyk47]

A question over on Facebook about whether or not Silversea should require proof of vaccination got me thinking about my past vaccinations and travel.   I grew up in a military family and my father’s assignments meant we lived in something like 12+ different states plus overseas in England and Morocco.   With the caveat that I am relying on 50+ year old memory and not knowing whether vaccinations were routinely required by the US Air Force or by the countries we were stationed in I know we had to have current shots and vaccinations to travel.   I still to this day have my original International Certificate of Vaccination also known as the Yellow Card.   You virtually went nowhere without it and even when we moved within the United States my parents had to provide it when they enrolled me in a new school district.   
 

So with this background I go back to the question and discussion on Facebook on whether or not Silversea should or will require proof of Covid vaccination to board.   The majority say yes, there are a few naysayers who say no, and some who feel Silversea should recognize or allow valid medical exemption.  I said yes but I actually think it may be out of Silversea’s hands and may be, actually most probably will be, required by at least some governments like the days of my youth.   I have no memory or know if medical exemptions were allowed or even a consideration all those years ago so I have no idea how that might be viewed or handled today.   Of course there might be some countries that do require proof of vaccination and some that don’t.  Can only imagine how that might complicate destinations and itineraries for cruise lines.   

Edited November 27, 2020 by Randyk47

[clo]

On 11/27/2020 at 10:46 AM, Randyk47 said:

I actually think it may be out of Silversea’s hands and may be, actually most probably will be, required by at least some governments like the days of my youth.

And I agree with you. I think most if not all governments are going to require proof of vaccination.

[les37b]

As has been touched on, any decision for boarding with proof of vaccination, I doubt it will be a decision in the hands of SS, but an international requirement. I won't say it doesn't concern how quickly these candidates have been made and the as yet unknown long term potential after affects, but I could be run over crossing the road and generally speaking I don't give that much thought.

 

The logistics however is a bigger "worry". If they vaccinated 100000 in the UK, every day, it would still take 2 years to complete..... double as its 2 shots. My next booking is May.......on the understanding its been a success, I do wonder how likely I will be high enough on the priority list to get anywhere near getting 2 jabs prior to sailing. And if I can't (not through choice)..... what happens?