If cruise line only "recommends" vaccination and doesn't "require" it, will you cruise?

[Charles4515]

29 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

I also remember the Carnival Paradise.  Non-smoking cruise ship, it did not last.  People voted with their money.  If Vaccines are require, people will vote with their money and I predict will not last.  More people die from tobacco than Covid19.

Voting with their money ........why would vaccinated people or for that matter unvaccinated people want to book with the chance that their cruise will be ruined by people who get COVID infections? Spend thousands of dollars and quarantined on a ship or the ports turning the ship away. Or the cruise aborted part way. When I am vaccinated ( I won’t cruise until) I don’t want to cruise with unvaccinated people that could wreck my cruise. 

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, Geobugs said:

Today I re-booked my cruise for April 2021.  They did not mention anything about a vaccination requirement or a mask requirement.  Widespread vaccination availability will not come to at least April. 

 

Also "any person with a history of a significant allergic reaction to a vaccine, medicine or food (such as previous history of anaphylactoid reaction or those who have been advised to carry an adrenaline autoinjector) should not receive the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine,"  Me and my son's medical history documents such history.   It is not about rights, it is a health issue.

Given the way things are headed right now - with infections, hospitalizations and deaths climbing - and the expressed view of competent professionals about the likely duration-- I would say you have, at best, a 50% chance of seeing a sailing in April of 2021 --- and if  there are sailings, there is at least a 50% chance of vaccinations and masks being required.

 

I hope you are able to live with disappointment if things do not wok out exactly the way you seem to think they should.

 

Interesting that you raise the "health issue"  --- other people on the ship you hope to sail also have health issues --- and rights.  

 

[clo]

1 hour ago, Geobugs said:

I am not saying that Cruise lines can't enforce a vaccination requirement.  I am suggesting that I think that they should not enforce a vaccination requirement.  I take an advocacy stance. 

Thanks. It's good to know that people stand by their standards. If they require a vaccination then you won't cruise. Congratulations for your position.

[broberts]

47 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

I also remember the Carnival Paradise.  Non-smoking cruise ship, it did not last.  People voted with their money.  If Vaccines are require, people will vote with their money and I predict will not last.  More people die from tobacco than Covid19.

 

I would be beyond surprised if more people would refuse to cruise were vaccinations required than would refuse if vaccinations were not required.

 

COVID-19 is not a lifestyle disease. Less than 50,000 people die each year in the US from diseases related to second hand smoke. Until you can provide data that shows large numbers of people actually seeking out covid infection, fatalities from consuming tabacco directly are irrelavent.

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, Geobugs said:

I also remember the Carnival Paradise.  Non-smoking cruise ship, it did not last.  People voted with their money.  If Vaccines are require, people will vote with their money and I predict will not last.  More people die from tobacco than Covid19.

 

Considering the cruises that are currently operating with all their restrictions and rules have managed to sell out all their available space and people scrambling to be test subjects on test cruises I think there are more cruisers who will put up with all the rules just to be on a ship versus those who will take a moralistic stance and boycott the industry. 

[clo]

54 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

moralistic stance

Holey moley! If there's a stance then I stand with life or death. Sheesh.

[davecttr]

7 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

But cruise lines can just like they can ban you bringing alcohol on board or force you to book only cruise line tours to go offshore. Cruise lines have been forcing us to accept their rules regardless of our feelings for decades. No reason why they can't do the same with vaccines😕

Here in the UK Saga Cruises policy is you have to be 50+ years old to cruise with them, or 40+ if you are travelling with someone 50+. They are popular but expensive but their two new ships look good. I think they are going to get even more popular with us oldies.

[bigrednole]

13 hours ago, Geobugs said:

 

Making someone personally financially responsible for spreading the virus based upon non-vaccination is ludicrous.  I will sail without the vaccination, as in the past.   Cruise lines should not force untested and unproven vaccinations.

 

Cruise lines should not allow anti-vaxxers on board. I hope they do make in mandatory along with a everything that has public access: voting, driver's license, etc. After some point in 2021 when the vaccine is readily available, draw the line in the sand. On date XX/XX/XXXX anyone without the vaccine has their voter registration revoked, driver's license canceled, federal insurance on bank accounts, no government aid or social security payments, no medicare/medicaid. Then we will see how fast people go to get their vaccines. 

[ontheweb]

6 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

Cruise lines should not allow anti-vaxxers on board. I hope they do make in mandatory along with a everything that has public access: voting, driver's license, etc. After some point in 2021 when the vaccine is readily available, draw the line in the sand. On date XX/XX/XXXX anyone without the vaccine has their voter registration revoked, driver's license canceled, federal insurance on bank accounts, no government aid or social security payments, no medicare/medicaid. Then we will see how fast people go to get their vaccines. 

Not going to happen. Well cruise lines requiring proof of vaccination may happen, but not the rest.

 

As Adam Schiff once said to Jack McCoy on an episode of Law & Order, "there's that pesky thing, the Constitution". 
 

[navybankerteacher]

9 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Considering the cruises that are currently operating with all their restrictions and rules have managed to sell out all their available space and people scrambling to be test subjects on test cruises I think there are more cruisers who will put up with all the rules just to be on a ship versus those who will take a moralistic stance and boycott the industry. 

Perhaps what will happen is that the industry will, for a while at least, simply boycott the anti-vaxxers —- particularly those who are also anti-maskers.  

[Markanddonna]

10 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

why would vaccinated people or for that matter unvaccinated people want to book with the chance that their cruise will be ruined by people who get COVID infections? Spend thousands of dollars and quarantined on a ship or the ports turning the ship away. Or the cruise aborted part way. When I am vaccinated ( I won’t cruise until) I don’t want to cruise with unvaccinated people that could wreck my cruise. 

This is the wisest way to look at it. Even if 99% are vaccinated, our cruise could be detoured and ruined by that one COVID infection.

[sverigecruiser]

33 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

anyone without the vaccine has their voter registration revoked, driver's license canceled, federal insurance on bank accounts, no government aid or social security payments, no medicare/medicaid. Then we will see how fast people go to get their vaccines. 

 

That might happen in North Korea but probably in very few other places, I hope!

[navybankerteacher]

12 hours ago, Markanddonna said:

Cruises are not run by the government. They can set their own rules. Consider churches. My old church encouraged people to wear a mask but said they would never enforce it.  My new church has a 9:00 service where a mask is mandatory. You are even escorted out different doors from the early service so you won't run into non mask wearers. If you want to claim an exemption to mask wearing, you have to go to one of the later services. I like that sensible approach.

My church has strictly limited attendance - wide spacing, resulting in about 20% of total capacity - and masks required on everyone, at all services. They have added a number of services - and attendance is limited by requiring advance reservations.  They also stream services -allowing remote “participation”.

[navybankerteacher]

5 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

That might happen in North Korea but probably in very few other places, I hope!

I doubt such extreme measures are likely in most civilized parts of the world — but would make great sense in making non-essential recreational activity (like cruising) feasible.

[sparks1093]

7 minutes ago, Markanddonna said:

This is the wisest way to look at it. Even if 99% are vaccinated, our cruise could be detoured and ruined by that one COVID infection.

I suspect that if 99% are vaccinated that the risk would be low enough to be acceptable to most (it would be to me).

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

I suspect that if 99% are vaccinated that the risk would be low enough to be acceptable to most (it would be to me).

If that 1% resulted in either infectionon board or (more likely) denial of entry to one or more ports, 99% would prove to have not been sufficient.  As a practical matter: if the cruise line accepts some non-vaccinated,  there will be a lot of individuals who would want to be part of that 1%.

[sverigecruiser]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

I doubt such extreme measures are likely in most civilized parts of the world — but would make great sense in making non-essential recreational activity (like cruising) feasible.

 

I agree about cruising.

 

For most other recreational activities I don't think that vaccinations will be required.  

[sparks1093]

29 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

If that 1% resulted in either infectionon board or (more likely) denial of entry to one or more ports, 99% would prove to have not been sufficient.  As a practical matter: if the cruise line accepts some non-vaccinated,  there will be a lot of individuals who would want to be part of that 1%.

If. Only time will tell and it could be that actual events will turn out differently enough to change my thinking. We shall see. (And it would be expected that some citizens of the ports would also be vaccinated which would also affect what the port would do in response to an infection onboard.)

[2wheelin]

1 hour ago, Markanddonna said:

This is the wisest way to look at it. Even if 99% are vaccinated, our cruise could be detoured and ruined by that one COVID infection.

 

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

I suspect that if 99% are vaccinated that the risk would be low enough to be acceptable to most (it would be to me).

 

30 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

If that 1% resulted in either infectionon board or (more likely) denial of entry to one or more ports, 99% would prove to have not been sufficient.  As a practical matter: if the cruise line accepts some non-vaccinated,  there will be a lot of individuals who would want to be part of that 1%.

If 100% are vaccinated there is still a 5% or greater chance of infection so if anyone is expecting 100% protection, you will not be cruising, or doing anything else. If the general population has a vaccination rate of, say 70%, I would be comfortable cruising as the incidence probability is low. Certainly the odds are changed by requiring 100% vaccination but some of the posts on here seem to suggest there will be absolute protection. BTW I will get the vaccine as soon as possible after I complete the current study I am in.

[2wheelin]

13 hours ago, clo said:

Or perhaps they'll just not take those people. Would that be alright? I know of a very reputable escorted land tour company that states that they won't carry people who have to use a wheel chair.

Different situation when a land tour makes multiple stops, may cover uncertain terrain, does not have the capacity to accommodate a wheel chair bound person, etc.

 

13 hours ago, clo said:

When we went to Antarctica we had to have a detailed form from our doctor. I don't recall what was on it but certainly enough that we could be denied. Charles, I see you live in the US as we do. I can see our brethren pitching fits about their "rights."

Do we need that last sentence which only serves to incite posters. Your brethren have just as much right to their opinions as everyone else and there is no need to poke the snake to get more responses here.

[GrJ Berkshire]

13 hours ago, Geobugs said:

I am not saying that Cruise lines can't enforce a vaccination requirement.  I am suggesting that I think that they should not enforce a vaccination requirement.  I take an advocacy stance. 

RUBBISH!!

They already deny boarding to certain health conditions, it will be commercial suicide not to exclude the anti-vaxx mob. Nobody will sail with these "21st Century Lepers". Get vaccinated or become a hermit, to rejoin society you will have to have it. otherwise no flights, hotels, cruises , restaurants, cinema, theatre, in the future SIMPLE choice................................................................

[sverigecruiser]

6 minutes ago, GrJ Berkshire said:

RUBBISH!!

They already deny boarding to certain health conditions, it will be commercial suicide not to exclude the anti-vaxx mob. Nobody will sail with these "21st Century Lepers". Get vaccinated or become a hermit, to rejoin society you will have to have it. otherwise no flights, hotels, cruises , restaurants, cinema, theatre, in the future SIMPLE choice................................................................

 

I agree with you about cruises and probably flights for a while. I doubt that hotels, restaurants, cinemas and theatres in Europe, including the UK, will require vaccinations. I can be wrong but that is what I think. 

[broberts]

1 hour ago, 2wheelin said:

 

 

If 100% are vaccinated there is still a 5% or greater chance of infection so if anyone is expecting 100% protection, you will not be cruising, or doing anything else. If the general population has a vaccination rate of, say 70%, I would be comfortable cruising as the incidence probability is low. Certainly the odds are changed by requiring 100% vaccination but some of the posts on here seem to suggest there will be absolute protection. BTW I will get the vaccine as soon as possible after I complete the current study I am in.

 

It will depend on the behavior of other vaccines, but Pfizer is said to provide 100% protection from serious complications. If Moderna and other vaccines provide the same protection there will be little reason that cruising could not go back to the way it was.

Edited December 17, 2020 by broberts

[clo]

1 hour ago, 2wheelin said:

Different situation when a land tour makes multiple stops, may cover uncertain terrain, does not have the capacity to accommodate a wheel chair bound person, etc.

 

My point was a general one that companies can make those rules and we know in advance.

[electro]

15 hours ago, Geobugs said:

I also remember the Carnival Paradise.  Non-smoking cruise ship, it did not last.  People voted with their money.  If Vaccines are require, people will vote with their money and I predict will not last.  More people die from tobacco than Covid19.

I sailed the non-smoking paradise twice and loved it. I , and many others, didn't stop cruising it because it was non-smoking, I stopped because  it was only 1 ship with the same itinerary and I wanted more variety. If only 1 ship required vaccines, I would cruise that once or twice and then take my vacation dollars elsewhere. If all ships require vaccines, I will cruise as much as I did pre covid.

 

And dieing from tobacco is not contagious.

Edited December 17, 2020 by electro