If cruise line only "recommends" vaccination and doesn't "require" it, will you cruise?

[clo]

9 minutes ago, goldengirl123 said:

Yes, I would be content with just domestic travel for the foreseeable future.  I LOVE cruising and traveling as well. But I have quite a few hobbies and travel is not everything to me. 

Not trying to pry but are you against this particular vaccine or any of them? I get a flu shot every year, started being religious about it when we started getting grand-kiddos. 

[neverbeenhere]

We’re most likely not cruising with the recommended vaccine scenario in the next year or so. But after that, we most likely would cruise. 
 

I don’t know about morals, but you are blinding me with science. 

[SelectSys]

19 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Of course we all have a different definition but of the particular possibilities mentioned let's face it, they happened before COVID came along... Bottom line is if I am vaccinated then I will feel comfortable cruising, I'm not going to let all the what ifs control my life. I mitigate all the risk I can and then go with it.

 

Possibilities yes.  One thing that I think COVID has changed, at least in the short run, is the probability that a particular significant disruption event will occur mostly in terms of timing with a significant delay in returning home the most serious to me personally.

 

Even though I tend to agree with you in terms of personal comfort with cruising and travel generally after vaccination, I will need to think about the possible impacts of getting stuck/diverted on a cruise ship.  

[goldengirl123]

1 hour ago, clo said:

Not trying to pry but are you against this particular vaccine or any of them? I get a flu shot every year, started being religious about it when we started getting grand-kiddos. 

No I am not against getting vaccines at all.  Some past vaccines have performed near miracles for human civilization. And I’m impressed by the brilliance of medical researchers and biochemists who developed these Covid vaccine candidates in record time.

So I am in no way anti-vaccine.   But on the other hand, since it was developed so quickly, I have my reservations.    

[clo]

2 minutes ago, goldengirl123 said:

No I am not against getting vaccines at all.  Some past vaccines have performed near miracles for human civilization. And I’m impressed by the brilliance of medical researchers and biochemists who developed these Covid vaccine candidates in record time.

 

So I am in no way anti-vaccine.   But on the other hand, since it was developed so quickly, I have my reservations.    

 

My reservation is only will it actually work and for how long. So we've got a cancellable cruise for 9/22. I'll get the vaccine when my number comes up but I won't be cruising then.

[cbr663]

12 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

People should try to understand what it takes to attain "herd immunity"  - particularly in the context of COVID.  You need about 75-80% immunized - either by vaccination or by natural contagion. When you are dealing with COVID with a roughly 1% fatality rate, that 75% of the US population is at least 240,000,000 - and the 1% of that amounts to 2,400,000 fatalities --- plus the many more hospitalized - possibly with lingering aftereffects.

 

Herd immunity with COVID is going to take a long, long time to achieve.  Trying to get 75-80% immunized rate will be practically impossible.

 

First you have that % of the population that simply won't get the vaccine.  Time will show how many that is, but unscientific polls have suggested that it could be as high as 30%.

 

Add to that the number of people who should not get the vaccine.

 

And then add to it the number of people that the vaccine is not going to be very effective.  Vaccines, for instance, often lose some of their effectiveness on seniors who have weakened immune systems.  This tends to lower the over all effectiveness of the vaccine in the general population.

 

And finally, let's not forget that the vaccine is not currently being administered to children.  So another 20% of the population.

 

It's going to take a very long time to rely on herd immunity with the vaccine.  A very long time.

Edited December 15, 2020 by cbr663

[navybankerteacher]

10 minutes ago, cbr663 said:

 

Herd immunity with COVID is going to take a long, long time to achieve.  Trying to get 75-80% immunized rate will be practically impossible.

 

First you have that % of the population that simply won't get the vaccine.  Time will show how many that is, but unscientific polls have suggested that it could be as high as 30%.

 

Add to that the number of people who should not get the vaccine.

 

And then add to it the number of people that the vaccine is not going to be very effective.  Vaccines, for instance, often lose some of their effectiveness on seniors who have weakened immune systems.  This tends to lower the over all effectiveness of the vaccine in the general population.

 

And finally, let's not forget that the vaccine is not currently being administered to children.  So another 20% of the population.

 

It's going to take a very long time to rely on herd immunity with the vaccine.  A very long time.

You are forgetting that Covid is unlike most other recent pandemics - it is highly effective at killing off its victims.  A significant number of those 30% whom you say  "...simply wont get the vaccine..." will simply die off - making the 75 to 80% not that difficult a threshold to achieve.

[crzndeb]

15 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

You are forgetting that Covid is unlike most other recent pandemics - it is highly effective at killing off its victims.  A significant number of those 30% whom you say  "...simply wont get the vaccine..." will simply die off - making the 75 to 80% not that difficult a threshold to achieve.

It’s quite effective killing off elderly and those with comorbidities. You can look at charts to see this. So it’s not killing off a majority of healthy individuals, even seniors. Last I looked, close to 600k have died from heart disease this year. Anybody worried about a heart attack anymore? I would be definitely worried about Covid if I fell into an unhealthy or comorbidity category.

Edited December 15, 2020 by crzndeb

[clo]

53 minutes ago, crzndeb said:

It’s quite effective killing off elderly and those with comorbidities. You can look at charts to see this. So it’s not killing off a majority of healthy individuals, even seniors. Last I looked, close to 600k have died from heart disease this year. Anybody worried about a heart attack anymore? I would be definitely worried about Covid if I fell into an unhealthy or comorbidity category.

Here's some more info:

 

https://abc7ny.com/covid-cases-latest-coronavirus-updates-how-many-people-have/8069630/

[Geobugs]

Yes, the only way.

[broberts]

1 hour ago, crzndeb said:

It’s quite effective killing off elderly and those with comorbidities. You can look at charts to see this. So it’s not killing off a majority of healthy individuals, even seniors. Last I looked, close to 600k have died from heart disease this year. Anybody worried about a heart attack anymore? I would be definitely worried about Covid if I fell into an unhealthy or comorbidity category.

 

Apples and oranges. No one died of a heart attack because they were in close proximity of another heart attack. No one spent a month in the hospital because they hugged someone that had a heart attack the next day. No one had to spend ten days at home because they visited someone that then had a heart attack. And no one gave a heart attack to their cherished grandmother because a coworker had a heart attack. 

 

But this pandemic is not only about unnecessary deaths of older people. It's also about the consequences of filling hospitals to overflowing and exhausting caregivers. 

 

[clo]

20 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

Yes, the only way.

Not sure I understand. "Only way" meaning the only way you'll cruise is if the lines require a vaccination. Or not requite.

[clo]

1 minute ago, broberts said:

 

Apples and oranges. No one died of a heart attack because they were in close proximity of another heart attack. No one spent a month in the hospital because they hugged someone that had a heart attack the next day. No one had to spend ten days at home because they visited someone that then had a heart attack. And no one gave a heart attack to their cherished grandmother because a coworker had a heart attack. 

 

But this pandemic is not only about unnecessary deaths of older people. It's also about the consequences of filling hospitals to overflowing and exhausting caregivers. 

 

WOW! This describes it better than ANYTHING I've read. Thanks.

[sparks1093]

10 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

Possibilities yes.  One thing that I think COVID has changed, at least in the short run, is the probability that a particular significant disruption event will occur mostly in terms of timing with a significant delay in returning home the most serious to me personally.

 

Even though I tend to agree with you in terms of personal comfort with cruising and travel generally after vaccination, I will need to think about the possible impacts of getting stuck/diverted on a cruise ship.  

Right now yes, there appears to be a heightened risk of disruption, but after the vaccine has been in place for a while I would expect that this would change (and of course I would be keeping an eye on this trend as well to assess the potential risk). Delay getting home is always a risk due to a large number of factors, that's one of the reasons I get travel insurance. But the question wasn't "would you cruise if the cruise line only recommended the vaccine and there was a high risk of disruption to the cruise", it was "would you cruise if the cruise line only recommended the vaccine but doesn't require it" and my answer remains yes. Could other factors influence my answer when the time comes to cruise again? Of course.

[sverigecruiser]

27 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

But the question wasn't "would you cruise if the cruise line only recommended the vaccine and there was a high risk of disruption to the cruise", it was "would you cruise if the cruise line only recommended the vaccine but doesn't require it" and my answer remains yes. Could other factors influence my answer when the time comes to cruise again? Of course.

 

Disruption of the cruise may be a possibility if vaccination is only recommended so for me that posssibility matter when I shall answer the question. (I know that can happen even if vaccinations are mandatory but then it's less likely.) I'm not afraid to be sick but I don't want the cruise to be disrupted if there is one case of Covid-19 on the ship. So without more information my answer is NO but with more information it may change.

[K32682]

Either the cruise line requires proof of immunization of all passengers and crew or I will not sail with them. I am not going to risk being denied access to ports, having the cruise cut short or incarcerated in my cabin for a two-week quarantine because of some anti-vaxx kook. 

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by K32682

[Geobugs]

9 hours ago, clo said:

Not sure I understand. "Only way" meaning the only way you'll cruise is if the lines require a vaccination. Or not requite.

 

I will only cruise, if the cruise lines does NOT require the vaccination. 

[sanger727]

18 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

For me it should be no problem to be quarantined at home. I like my job but I like my home more! 

 

How bad it should be to be locked down at sea on a cruiseship depends on what kind of food they will deliver to the cabin, and how much I will have to pay for it! If the food is decent and the price for it is decent I can spend some extra weeks sitting on my balcony, no problem.

 

I think I could deal with being quarantined at home a few days but not on the ship. In my home I have multiple rooms to go to, good TV service, a large patio/yard, a home gym, and plenty of food on demand. Sitting in a small room with a handful of TV channels, no where to go and stretch your legs outside of a tiny balcony, no way to really exercise, and depending on the cruise line to deliver food would make me miserable. I will not be cruising as long as this is an option. 

[mammajamma2013]

13 hours ago, broberts said:

But this pandemic is not only about unnecessary deaths of older people. It's also about the consequences of filling hospitals to overflowing and exhausting caregivers. 

 

Thank you for this statement. My son is an ER doc. As much as he tries to keep us out of the loop regarding how he is doing both mentally and physically (because it becomes a mental issue for us), we see how much of a toll it's taking on him. It also takes a huge toll on his wife. Our hospitals are at capacity; decisions are being made as to who gets ICU care and who might be able to hang on without it. How on earth can someone make a decision like that?

 

He recently recovered from a mild case of COVID. It was always a matter of when he contracted it, never if.

 

Edited to add: I will cruise if a vaccine is required.

Edited December 15, 2020 by mammajamma2013
Answer the original question

[clo]

I think it's a legitimate question. If it's not required there appear to be plenty of people here who won't cruise.

[Hlitner]

Probably not!  And here is why?  Without mandatory vaccinations the odds are increased (in a big way) that one or more folks on the cruise will develop COVID symptoms.  When that happens the cruise will likely need to end or at least not stop at any other ports.  The ship would have to find a port willing to accept the ship and its ill passenger(s).  Meanwhile, everyone else (i.e. those who are vaccinated) would be screwed out of their fun cruise, might have to deal with quarantine requirements, might not be able to use any public transit for a couple of weeks, etc.  That is not the kind of cruise I want especially when I am paying for the privilege.  If you want proof of what I have said you could simply look at what happened to quite a few of the start-up cruises (both Ocean and River) in Europe.

 

Hank

[FredT]

What Hank said (Almost word for word!)

 

[clo]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Hank

Exactly. Even with vaccinated people it's not 100% but without, no thanks.

[bigrednole]

I think anyone cruising without a vaccine should be personally financially responsible for everyone's cruise fares and expenses onboard. I think it would be stupid for the cruise lines to sail without a vaccination requirement now. A few months ago, I didn't have that opinion. 

[Markanddonna]

I'm all for getting the vaccine and for cruises to require 100% participation in vaccines, but...

 

How does one get a legitimate certificate that you  have been properly vaccinated?  The idea of an electronic vaccination stamp on one's passport that expires is a great idea (you might need a yearly booster), but I can see a black market for any verification. What about those passengers from second and third world countries who received an inferior vaccination with low efficacy (read: made in China)?

 

Maybe it is because I am a WWII researcher and writer and am a bit more aware of faked everything and the black market that I am a bit "paranoid."  Most cruisers are likely very nice people who are mostly unaware of such practices, but my mind tends to go down the road of "Yeah, but what if?"