Will you cruise if vaccination is mandatory in order to board?

[richstowe]

Busiest thread since you know ....

On 2/12/2021 at 2:38 PM, Daniel A said:

Yes - My question is: Will you cruise if they don't require a vaccination?

 

On 2/12/2021 at 2:40 PM, franktown said:

Yes.  Will not cruise without.

EXACTLY !

[c-boy]

1 hour ago, gmjc2 said:

Just a thought! Do you and your family also refuse the yearly Flu shot? It changes every year so are we all guinea pigs then?

only when the roads are open and there's no G men around. 

[Joebucks]

Carnival's President gave a video update yesterday on Facebook. Talked a lot about vaccination. I believe the comments and likes are pretty interesting. Seems to contradict the crowd in here that believes the majority of cruisers want the vaccine.

[ilikeanswers]

5 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

Carnival's President gave a video update yesterday on Facebook. Talked a lot about vaccination. I believe the comments and likes are pretty interesting. Seems to contradict the crowd in here that believes the majority of cruisers want the vaccine.

 

FB and other social media tend to be biased to anti vaxxers probably a lot of them are not even cruisers just looking for an excuse to push their views🙄. I've seen this many times with social media posts, even an innocuous one someone always finds a way to politicise it😖. If you were looking for a survey sample FB would be the last place to look.

[jfunk138]

1 hour ago, gmjc2 said:

Just a thought! Do you and your family also refuse the yearly Flu shot? It changes every year so are we all guinea pigs then?

This is an apples to oranges comparison.

The Flu shot is officially licensed by the FDA affirming its long term safety and effectiveness.  The Covid vax has only been granted an Emergency Use Authorization.  

EUAs are explicit that each is “an investigational vaccine not licensed for any indication” and require that all “promotional material relating to the Covid-19 Vaccine clearly and conspicuously … state that this product has not been approved or licensed by the FDA, but has been authorized for emergency use by FDA”

[jfunk138]

15 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

Carnival's President gave a video update yesterday on Facebook. Talked a lot about vaccination. I believe the comments and likes are pretty interesting. Seems to contradict the crowd in here that believes the majority of cruisers want the vaccine.

I think "Cruise Critic" is self-selecting of the most vocal, opinionated folks.  I'm sure a random sampling, of Carnival cruisers in particular, is going to be much more representative of Carnival's customers.  

 

I suspect the average Carnival cruiser is much closer to the "spring break" crowd than the hide in your basement until Covid is over crowd which seems to have infested this forum.

[navybankerteacher]

When discussing “vaccine hesitancy” among “health care workers” it is important to consider who those workers are.  There is a great difference between the levels of expertise involved — an MD is trained and has fairly broad understanding while a cleaner in a nursing home is unlikely to have as deep an understanding of what is involved —- yet they are all “health care workers”.

 

 

[ilikeanswers]

16 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

This is an apples to oranges comparison.

The Flu shot is officially licensed by the FDA affirming its long term safety and effectiveness.  The Covid vax has only been granted an Emergency Use Authorization.  

EUAs are explicit that each is “an investigational vaccine not licensed for any indication” and require that all “promotional material relating to the Covid-19 Vaccine clearly and conspicuously … state that this product has not been approved or licensed by the FDA, but has been authorized for emergency use by FDA”

 

I think context is required:

What are emergency use authorizations, and do they guarantee that a vaccine or drug is safe?

Edited February 26, 2021 by ilikeanswers

[Sky616]

1 hour ago, gmjc2 said:

Just a thought! Do you and your family also refuse the yearly Flu shot? It changes every year so are we all guinea pigs then?

My wife and I neve get any vaccines.  And hardly ever sick.  My kids don't either.

[gmjc2]

1 minute ago, Sky616 said:

My wife and I neve get any vaccines.  And hardly ever sick.  My kids don't either.

A lot of others have said similar things and then found themselves in the hospital unable to breathe with long term after effects!

As for the remark about the flu vaccine being tried and true. They were all new at some point and if they change every year then they are only researched and tested for a few months!  

There just is no reasonable argument for not vaccinating if life is to get back to anything resembling "normal"

[Joebucks]

37 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

FB and other social media tend to be biased to anti vaxxers probably a lot of them are not even cruisers just looking for an excuse to push their views🙄. I've seen this many times with social media posts, even an innocuous one someone always finds a way to politicise it😖. If you were looking for a survey sample FB would be the last place to look.

 

Seems like a fairly typical cruise critic response. "Hundreds of negative vaccine reactions on Facebook are not indicative of anything. 20 people on cruise critic speak for the entire industry"

Edited February 26, 2021 by Joebucks

[ilikeanswers]

8 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

Seems like a fairly typical cruise critic response. "Hundreds of negative vaccine reactions on Facebook are not indicative of anything. 20 people on cruise critic speak for the entire industry"

 

Give this as an example. When FB shut down all news sites in Australia including charities, bloggers, medical and government notifications pages you know what they did keep up? Conspiracy theorists and anti vaxers pages. Absolutely screams bias by FB😒. 

Edited February 26, 2021 by ilikeanswers

[jfunk138]

1 minute ago, gmjc2 said:

As for the remark about the flu vaccine being tried and true. They were all new at some point and if they change every year then they are only researched and tested for a few months!  

The flu shots are somehow able to meet FDA's testing requirements to be fully licensed every year.  I'm not sure the process but they do it.  There is no annual EUA for the annual flu vaccine. 

 

The last time they did an EUA for a flu vaccine (Swine flu) it ended with some people suffering permanent narcolepsy.

 

 

[ilikeanswers]

24 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

20 people on cruise critic speak for the entire industry"

 

According to the poll thread it is 106😉

[iancal]

It would not surprise me in the least if proof of covid vaccination is required to board a cruise ship, an international flight, or indeed perhaps at some AI's and resorts.

 

We have no say over the matter.   If we want to travel we will have to conform.  If not....we will have to stay home.

Edited February 26, 2021 by iancal

[iancal]

It is a moot point for us. 

 

We will get the covid vaccination.  Just as have the flu shot each year, Hep shots, tetanus, yellow fever, etc.

 

We really do not care if others refuse the vaccine.  It will be their choice however this choice may limit their ability to travel internationally for some period of time.  It is just one of the pros and cons when making the decision.  In many countries employers will have the right to require employees in certain occupations to be covid vaccinated.

Edited February 26, 2021 by iancal

[SelectSys]

52 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Give this as an example. When FB shut down all news sites in Australia including charities, bloggers, medical and government notifications pages you know what they did keep up? Conspiracy theorists and anti vaxers pages. Absolutely screams bias by FB😒. 

 

This is a really poor example of bias by Facebook.   As you may know, the real dispute between big tech and Australia was about payments to big media (I think Newscorp was a big driver) more than anything else and throwing a "bone" to governments to allow them to say they stood up to censorship.  Anything caught up in the hastiness of Facebook's actions was simply temporary collateral damage - e.g., government notifications.  These accidental actions embarrassed Facebook further and made them look even worse in the public eye.

 

Cracks in big tech - Microsoft in particular - along with other governments threatening legislative action like Australia pushed Google and Facebook back to the table. 

 

The BBC suggests it was Facebook that blinked and made a deal to pay media companies for their content.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56168843

 

Australian news will return to the social media giant's platform, and it will reach deals to pay news groups for their stories.

So, who won this titanic battle and how will that play out around the world?

The former boss of Facebook in Australia is pretty clear.

"I'd say Facebook may have blinked a bit here," Stephen Scheeler told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

Australia had support not only from other governments, which wanted to see Mark Zuckerberg's company taken down a peg, but even from another tech firm that has previously been in regulators' sights itself.

Earlier this month, Microsoft came out in strong support of the new media law.

Its President Brad Smith wrote: "The legislation will redress the economic imbalance between technology and journalism by mandating negotiations between these tech gatekeepers and independent news organisations."

Cynics might point out it's not surprising Microsoft backed a law framed specifically to affect two of its biggest rivals.

Edited February 26, 2021 by SelectSys

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, Sky616 said:

My wife and I neve get any vaccines.  And hardly ever sick.  My kids don't either.

What about rubella, polio, diphtheria, tuberculosis,  rabies, tetanus etc?. Without vaccines all these would still be rampant in the world. Sounds like you are trying to return to the dark ages. 

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

 

Seems like a fairly typical cruise critic response. "Hundreds of negative vaccine reactions on Facebook are not indicative of anything. 20 people on cruise critic speak for the entire industry"

 

You bring up a bigger issue, I think.  People should not be making important decisions based on Facebook.  With the exception of cruising type info the same applies to Cruise Critic.   I categorize both as social exchanges and entertainment (at times).  Too many people are placing trust about their health and well being on social media places.  

 

"Pass this on to 10 others and hit the like button if you want the pandemic to end."  😀

[ColeThornton]

Folks, sometimes you just have to realize you are just wasting keyboard ink trying to change other people's minds, regardless of what either point of view is.     How many times do people have to say the same thing ad nauseum in multiple threads on a daily basis?

[iancal]

I believe that employers and those employing staff who deal with the public  in many countries are going to have to consider litigation issues with an eye to their standard 'duty of care'  obligations  when it comes to protecting staff and customers.

 

It has already become a topic for employment lawyers in our jurisdiction as the vaccine rolls out.  The opinion of most is that an employee can be required to be vaccinated as a condition of employment or a condition of continuing employment.  Just as it is now, and has been for many years, in certain occupations and environments.

 

At the end of the day it will come down to choice and the consequences of that choice.

Edited February 26, 2021 by iancal

[jfunk138]

1 minute ago, iancal said:

I believe that employers and those employing staff who deal with the public  in many countries are going to have to consider litigation issues with an eye to their standard 'duty of care'  obligations  when it comes to protecting staff and customers.

 

It has already become a topic for employment lawyers in our jurisdiction as the vaccine rolls out.  The opinion of most is that an employee can be required to be vaccinated as a condition of employment or a condition of continuing employment.  Just as it is now, and has been for many years, in certain occupations.

"Federal law prohibits employers and others from requiring vaccination with a Covid-19 vaccine distributed under an EUA"

 

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/23/federal-law-prohibits-employers-and-others-from-requiring-vaccination-with-a-covid-19-vaccine-distributed-under-an-eua/

[navybankerteacher]

It is interesting (read: frightening) to see how many people prefer to get their information from Facebook and the on-line supermarket tabloids than from established and reputable medical sources.

 

  Paying attention to polls of “health care workers” without distinguishing between educated doctors and nursing home cleaners - makes about as much sense as getting on a plane flown by a baggage handler rather than a trained pilot —- after all both are aviation industry workers 

[wowzz]

1 minute ago, ColeThornton said:

Folks, sometimes you just have to realize you are just wasting keyboard ink trying to change other people's minds, regardless of what either point of view is.     How many times do people have to say the same thing ad nauseum in multiple threads on a daily basis?

That's true. 

It's just that some of the stuff being written about why vaccines are dangerous/work of the devil/ were designed on the back of an envelope etc is so irrational that it's difficult to ignore.

  

[ldubs]

7 minutes ago, wowzz said:

That's true. 

It's just that some of the stuff being written about why vaccines are dangerous/work of the devil/ were designed on the back of an envelope etc is so irrational that it's difficult to ignore.

  

 

And, it is appropriate, if not an obligation, to stand up and debunk that stuff.  Otherwise it becomes acceptable to share rubbish as if it were science.