Princess Test Cruises ?

[Daniel A]

53 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

There seem to be two sets of thoughts. Some see the CDC as unyielding and obstinate, while others see the cruise lines as lobbying instead of seriously trying to address the requirements laid out by the CDC.

It has been my lifelong experience that the truth almost always lies somewhere in between.  😑 

[ontheweb]

45 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

It has been my lifelong experience that the truth almost always lies somewhere in between.  😑 

I agree, but I do wonder if the truth is closer to one than the other. IMHO, the cruise lines should have been doing more to see how they could meet the protocols or see if they could suggest more practical alternatives as opposed to having the CLIA call for letters to the CDC.

[Redwing55]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

I agree, but I do wonder if the truth is closer to one than the other. IMHO, the cruise lines should have been doing more to see how they could meet the protocols or see if they could suggest more practical alternatives as opposed to having the CLIA call for letters to the CDC.

As I've posted earlier, how do we know what really happened or is happening?  What makes this journey even more difficult is when both sides may not necessarily have the same goal.  Both should have the same.. open up cruising to a safe operation.  I know my bias, but I don't see a priority at the CDC for trying to find a path to open things up.  As for the cruise industry doing it safely, do any of us really believe that the cruise lines want to see even one person infected on a cruise ship?  I mean really?  Sure they may accept a few, but we all know that if they have significant infections that the lines will suffer long term consequences.  Think about that for a bit.🧐

[trbarton]

On 4/16/2021 at 2:19 PM, nocl said:

Because they are willing to exclaim publicly that it is the CDC's fault.  They are willing to post when they submit a letter.  They are willing to say that CDC is non-responsive when they do not get a reply to a letter requesting they be dropped from the CSO and allowed to cruise in two weeks.

 

So the cruise lines certainly do not seem to be bashful with the media.

 

Yet not a word about not being able to complete port agreements.  For that matter not a word about even negotiating with the ports.  Also if I recall correctly didn't the ports have a meeting a few weeks back where they called for cruising to return.  That does not point to the problem being with port negotiations.

 

It is not blaming the victim. They are a regulated industry, that does not want to follow what is requested for them to return to business.  They are perfectly willing to paint themselves as the victim.  But they are now more the victim than an oil industry that has to follow environmental regulations to keep operating.

 

Show me any sign that they are moving to implement any portion  of the CDC requirements.  Show me any place where they have submitted a detailed plan for consideration by the CDC (no outlines and the safe sail committee report are not plans).  Show me where they have submitted anything without a request that they be dropped from the CSO based.  Not modification, not an alternative proposal for modification under CDC oversight, there request have all been to be dropped from the CSO.

 

In the meantime they have been doing their lobbying effort to put pressure on the CDC, to paint themselves as the victim.  Why not they have been successful for years following that game plan when dealing with government requirements (such as increased fees in Caribbean ports) why do anything differently today.

 

But nothing shows any sign that they are seriously working to do anything under CDC oversight.

 

The only one that has submitted something that might be a plan is MSC.  It is reported that they have sent in their protocols used in Europe and the results from the cruises using those protocols.

Curious if you have read ALL of the port requirements. Some of the requirements like having the terminal vacated 12 hrs btw disembarking passengers & boarding passengers is a ridiculous requirement & as a CEO of a cruise line why would you agree to that?

 

Tom🤔 

[nocl]

1 hour ago, trbarton said:

Curious if you have read ALL of the port requirements. Some of the requirements like having the terminal vacated 12 hrs btw disembarking passengers & boarding passengers is a ridiculous requirement & as a CEO of a cruise line why would you agree to that?

 

Tom🤔 

Yes I have.

 

Apparently you have not kept up to date.

 

The CDC revised the language of that requirement within a couple of days after release.  It now reads to "to the extent practicable"

 

Any other ridiculous sections.  The rest look pretty reasonable to me. Especially based upon the experience last year.

 

So let me ask you a question.' If you were a CEO of a cruise line that really wanted to start cruising again would you not start negotiating the agreements on sections that you are not in disagreement with wh ile negotiating with the CDC on the ones you really disagreed with?  Instead of adding that time on to the end.

 

Or would you just say its all unreasonable and refuse to sail under CDC over sight while trying to work to get CDC out of the equation.  Which is what it seems like the cruise lines are doing.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2021 by nocl

[Ken the cruiser]

7 hours ago, nocl said:

Yes I have.

 

Apparently you have not kept up to date.

 

The CDC revised the language of that requirement within a couple of days after release.  It now reads to "to the extent practicable"

 

Any other ridiculous sections.  The rest look pretty reasonable to me. Especially based upon the experience last year.

 

So let me ask you a question.' If you were a CEO of a cruise line that really wanted to start cruising again would you not start negotiating the agreements on sections that you are not in disagreement with wh ile negotiating with the CDC on the ones you really disagreed with?  Instead of adding that time on to the end.

 

Or would you just say its all unreasonable and refuse to sail under CDC over sight while trying to work to get CDC out of the equation.  Which is what it seems like the cruise lines are doing.

I enjoyed watching Richard Fein and what he had to say on his blog April 12th. Not much detail, but he did sound very positive IMHO with regards to working with the CDC to start sailing by July. We shall see.

 

Richard Fain | Royal Caribbean Blog

 

[Daniel A]

12 hours ago, Redwing55 said:

Woah, just what we need... not.  It clearly could be a roadblock.  It's sad that these 2 Senators are so paranoid about cruise ships.  

Only one senator (Blumenthal) and one congress representative (Matsui.)  1/100th of the US Senate and 1/435th of the House of Representatives, hardly a major threat.  These two did the same thing last November sending a letter to the CDC demanding that the CSO Framework be scrapped and reinstituting the No Sail Order.  It went nowhere as one might expect.  They did get their names into the papers though...😒

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Only one senator (Blumenthal) and one congress representative (Matsui.)  1/100th of the US Senate and 1/435th of the House of Representatives, hardly a major threat.  These two did the same thing last November sending a letter to the CDC demanding that the CSO Framework be scrapped and reinstituting the No Sail Order.  It went nowhere as one might expect.  They did get their names into the papers though...😒

Just like the Senators and Governor from Florida and one Alaskan Senator get their names in the papers.😒

[dog]

Any news on these test cruises staring soon with Princess?

[wowzz]

13 minutes ago, dog said:

Any news on these test cruises staring soon with Princess?

Starting in the UK this summer.

[dog]

5 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Starting in the UK this summer.

Is this the free ones?

[wowzz]

6 minutes ago, dog said:

Is this the free ones?

Oh no!

But I don't think there were ever going to be free ones The UK ones will be a good test, with actual paying customers..

Edited April 27, 2021 by wowzz

[K.T.B.]

I know I'm "late to the game" here, but the one thing people on these eventual test cruises will need to be be aware of is that it won't be a typical cruise.  You're going to be asked to do certain things to simulate real life situations.  You WILL need to wear a mask.  The time will not be your own the majority of the time.  The cruise lines will need to be able to proof that they can handle any type of situation that might come up, and this will probably include a simulated covid outbreak on board.

 

Yes, you'll be on a cruise ship, but you'll be a guinea pig basically.  A test cruise will be used to test every protocol in place.  So don't expect to be chair hogging and foo-foo drinking your way to a free cruise. 

Edited April 27, 2021 by K.T.B.

[K.T.B.]

On 4/17/2021 at 4:25 PM, OccasionalSanta said:

Interesting observation. However the fake beard is done at my discretion and does not hinder breathing. 

Neither does a mask, which has been medically proven.  So there's that.  

[dog]

55 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

I know I'm "late to the game" here, but the one thing people on these eventual test cruises will need to be be aware of is that it won't be a typical cruise.  You're going to be asked to do certain things to simulate real life situations.  You WILL need to wear a mask.  The time will not be your own the majority of the time.  The cruise lines will need to be able to proof that they can handle any type of situation that might come up, and this will probably include a simulated covid outbreak on board.

 

Yes, you'll be on a cruise ship, but you'll be a guinea pig basically.  A test cruise will be used to test every protocol in place.  So don't expect to be chair hogging and foo-foo drinking your way to a free cruise. 

Please post your source. I am trying to find out more about the test cruises. I did not think this meant the UK only ones, but wows posts says so 

 

 

[Daniel A]

1 hour ago, dog said:

Any news on these test cruises staring soon with Princess?

Ha Ha!  You need to ask the CDC who are keeping secret what the requirements will be if they will even authorize test cruises in phase 2B.  If you even get an answer, then let the rest of the world know.

[K.T.B.]

27 minutes ago, dog said:

Please post your source. I am trying to find out more about the test cruises. I did not think this meant the UK only ones, but wows posts says so 

 

 

 

It's just logic.  A test is just that, a test.  They'd need to use the people to test ever conceivable issue or situation that could arise.  They'd also test dining room procedures, disembarkations, etc,

 

Look at it as when you're testing, say, a computer program or game.  You need to test everything that could happen with it, run it through its paces in every way possible. 

 

Just putting people on a ship to party wouldn't help the cruise line to find its weaknesses or strengths.  This is why it's called "a test".

Edited April 27, 2021 by K.T.B.

[dog]

On 4/15/2021 at 5:21 PM, Denmal said:

The CDC states the test cruises have to be with non-paying passengers and not people dependent on the cruise line for a job 

so it sounds like no news yet 

[mcrcruiser]

Simple solution : all cruise lines & ships sail from foreign ports  until the CDC gets its act together . Financial & political pressure would be hot & heavy from all states with cruise ports  because of those extra tourist bucks  & jobs

Edited April 27, 2021 by mcrcruiser

[K.T.B.]

17 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Simple solution : all cruise lines & ships sail from foreign ports  until the CDC gets its act together . Financial & political pressure would be hot & heavy from all states with cruise ports  because of those extra tourist bucks  & jobs

 

Well, IMO, with their new guidelines today for those who are fully vaccinated, I think it pretty much does away with the CSO as long as all the cruise lines require all its passengers and crew to be vaccinated.  BUT ALL the cruise lines need to make it a requirement.

[Syracusefan44]

I find it interesting that Princess sales department is hosting a four day webinar/seminar for travel agents from May 3rd - 7th since the CDC has not issued any guidance and/or dates when they can return to service.

 

Is it a possibility that Carnival Corporation/Princess has received information from the CDC and an announcement by the CDC is imminent?  
 

In my opinion it would make no sense to schedule this type of seminar/webinar for travel agents if you did not have any information regarding your return to service.

 

Edited April 27, 2021 by Syracusefan44
Spelling error

[HBCcruiser]

2 hours ago, Syracusefan44 said:

 

Is it a possibility that Carnival Corporation/Princess has received information from the CDC and an announcement by the CDC is imminent

Interesting 🤔🤔 Today the Princess App updated and I was able to order my medallions for the July 5, 2021 cruise. Could it be??? Wishful thinking??? I do have a backup plan - sailing RCI out of Nassau July 17, 2021. 

[Redwing55]

On 4/18/2021 at 12:27 AM, nocl said:

Yes I have.

 

Apparently you have not kept up to date.

 

The CDC revised the language of that requirement within a couple of days after release.  It now reads to "to the extent practicable"

 

Any other ridiculous sections.  The rest look pretty reasonable to me. Especially based upon the experience last year.

 

So let me ask you a question.' If you were a CEO of a cruise line that really wanted to start cruising again would you not start negotiating the agreements on sections that you are not in disagreement with wh ile negotiating with the CDC on the ones you really disagreed with?  Instead of adding that time on to the end.

 

Or would you just say its all unreasonable and refuse to sail under CDC over sight while trying to work to get CDC out of the equation.  Which is what it seems like the cruise lines are doing.

 

 

I understand that it was revised.  But why wasn't it just removed?  Even better, why was it in there in the first place?  The CDC has no idea, data, or experience as to how this would impact the spread of the virus.  So why did they put this in there?  I suspect this isn't the only item like this.  These type of requirements just leads to frustrations by the regulated and builds animosity as opposed to working towards a solution to get cruising going.  As I mentioned before, I've yet seen ANY action by the CDC that indicates that they are trying their best to open cruising safely.  It's more like foot dragging and an annoyance for them to open up the industry.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Redwing55

[Redwing55]

1 minute ago, nocl said:

And exactly what have you seen of the cruise lines actually submitting anything to the CDC to actually open up cruising.  For that matter go read the cruise lines own healthy sail panel report.

 

 

Not sure about your point.  I stand by listing unnecessary requirements as being wasteful and borders on showing incompetence.  I don't know what the cruise lines are or aren't doing.  I just saw what the CDC's product is.  Since they are the controlling body, it's up to them to promulgate appropriate recommendations.    Yes, the regulated can and should be part of the process to help develop them, but it is not in the cruise industries' laps to write these.  The CDC should develop appropriate rules.. not ones that don't benefit or are totally risk averse.

[nocl]

1 hour ago, Redwing55 said:

Not sure about your point.  I stand by listing unnecessary requirements as being wasteful and borders on showing incompetence.  I don't know what the cruise lines are or aren't doing.  I just saw what the CDC's product is.  Since they are the controlling body, it's up to them to promulgate appropriate recommendations.    Yes, the regulated can and should be part of the process to help develop them, but it is not in the cruise industries' laps to write these.  The CDC should develop appropriate rules.. not ones that don't benefit or are totally risk averse.

My point is very simple the requirements that the CDC has in their documents are not dissimilar from the recommendations made by the cruise lines own healthy sail panel in their report.  

 

Actually the regulatory authority creates the requirements.  The cruise lines  do have to develope their plans that indicate how they will meet those requirements for each individual ship since all of the ships are different, with different facilities, staffing, etc.  Even ships of the same class have some differences that need to be addressed in that ships plan.