Lets get back to cruising from Florida!

[RedIguana]

10 hours ago, jrapps said:

A business has the right to deny service to anyone for any reason (unless it is discriminatory to a protected class, i.e. race, religion etc). However, they don't have the right to require that people brandish themselves based on something, protected class or not.

They actually do this in Florida in nightclubs that allow 18-21 years olds in. They were a different color wristband that brands them as under 21 and unable to drink.

[jules815]

38 minutes ago, RedIguana said:

They actually do this in Florida in nightclubs that allow 18-21 years olds in. They were a different color wristband that brands them as under 21 and unable to drink.

Common practice here in Illinois in college towns downstate. In the Chicago area, you can't enter a bar until you're 21. Down in Carbondale, home of Southern Illinois University, you can get into a bar with a different color wristband at 19.

[BecciBoo]

13 hours ago, jrapps said:

I just don't see a middle ground.

I do, they will do neither of those things you mentioned in my humble opinion, but whatever they do, I'll welcome.  The test cruises are a mute point as they have exemption if all are vaxed already.  And the bracelets they've had for years can carry all that information with one swipe at the bar. We have them and are ready to reprogram in September.  There will be no problem at all with the new law, of course, this is my humble opinion...but we'll see won't we?

Edited May 15, 2021 by BecciBoo

[ricka47]

52 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

Sorry - if you want to split hairs I should have said it is not Florida law YET.  Looking at it from a positive perspective, it is possible for an agreement to be made between the governor and the cruise lines which is a more likely scenario. 

 

Right - I think that he will have to find a way to make this work while saving face somehow.  I just hope that they can come to an agreement soon so that the cruise lines can get going.

 

I have to think that there are talks going on right now with with Disney (who bring a few bucks into Florida) and the other big players to find a way to make this work. There is too much at stake.

[livingonthebeach]

Just now, ricka47 said:

 

Right - I think that he will have to find a way to make this work while saving face somehow.  I just hope that they can come to an agreement soon so that the cruise lines can get going.

 

I have to think that there are talks going on right now with with Disney (who bring a few bucks into Florida) and the other big players to find a way to make this work. There is too much at stake.

 

I completely agree.

[BecciBoo]

10 hours ago, Dunfer said:

Still not discriminatory. It’s a choice. Cruise vaccinated, without having to wear a mask, or, cruise wearing a mask. Your choice. No one is forcing you to cruise, nor preventing it.

I agree, it's no different than asking for a passport or a birth cert. to cruise, they require that as well and it isn't considered discriminatory at all.  It doesn't require one to get a passport, but you must provide some form of ID.   In this case you must either provide proof of vaccination or wear masks and social distance...it is the cruiser's choice to have a good time or a bad time.  That is not discrimination.  I think some of you object because you didn't get it, again, just my humble opinion.

[John Reid]

12 hours ago, Iamcruzin said:

This is a perfect example of the discrimination that the law is trying to prevent.

First,  to think this is this Governor's motivation is ingenuous. 

Second, it is about as discriminatory as having to be clothed to go on a cruise. A disability, color of skin, age are not choices and need protection. Getting the vaccination is a choice. Choose not to, maybe one can't cruise.

 

Last time I tried going to Harris Teeter naked, they stopped me from entering. How discriminatory.

[coldflame]

1 minute ago, ricka47 said:

I have to think that there are talks going on right now with with Disney (who bring a few bucks into Florida) and the other big players to find a way to make this work. There is too much at stake.

 

Disney is no rush. They have their parks, entertainment, licensing and streaming service making the bulk of their profits. They could wait another year and not break a sweat.

 

As for being too much as stake, not really -- at all. As per court documents tax revenues from the cruise industry are around 2% of the state budget, which is why you see DeSantis so defiant to any threats by the cruise line.

[jrapps]

4 minutes ago, ricka47 said:

 

I have to think that there are talks going on right now with with Disney (who bring a few bucks into Florida) and the other big players to find a way to make this work. There is too much at stake.

I HOPE you are right. My opinion is that these talks either are not happening, or are not going well because if they were, we wouldn't see the governor publicly declaring NCL a small insignificant business. The language would have been more muted and more like "we continue to talk and work with NCL on a path forward to comply with FL law". Instead he said we don't care. That is digging in, not saving face.

 

I hope I am wrong.

[harkinmr]

8 minutes ago, ricka47 said:

 

Right - I think that he will have to find a way to make this work while saving face somehow.  I just hope that they can come to an agreement soon so that the cruise lines can get going.

 

I have to think that there are talks going on right now with with Disney (who bring a few bucks into Florida) and the other big players to find a way to make this work. There is too much at stake.

 

7 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

I completely agree.

Or maybe not.  
 

https://www.wesh.com/article/desantis-norwegian-cruise-line/36420109

 

[BecciBoo]

8 minutes ago, jrapps said:

I HOPE you are right. My opinion is that these talks either are not happening, or are not going well because if they were, we wouldn't see the governor publicly declaring NCL a small insignificant business. The language would have been more muted and more like "we continue to talk and work with NCL on a path forward to comply with FL law". Instead he said we don't care. That is digging in, not saving face.

 

I hope I am wrong.

Did he actually say "We don't care"  ?  I just watched, he didn't say that.  He said that niche would get filled.  I think he's right, plenty of other lines would want that slot.  I do agree that his plan wasn't necessary, but still don't think it will affect my cruise.

Edited May 15, 2021 by BecciBoo

[jrapps]

5 minutes ago, BecciBoo said:

I agree, it's no different than asking for a passport or a birth cert. to cruise, they require that as well and it isn't considered discriminatory at all.  It doesn't require one to get a passport, but you must provide some form of ID.   In this case you must either provide proof of vaccination or wear masks and social distance...it is the cruiser's choice to have a good time or a bad time.  That is not discrimination.  I think some of you object because you didn't get it, again, just my humble opinion.

It is legal for them to require info like your passport to go on the cruise. Would it be legal if they made everyone on the ship wear something that indicated the country they are from? Maybe it would be, I don't know. My issue with the OP idea was the "make it difficult for them by requiring a color band while onboard". To me that reads "make it uncomfortable for them to walk around the ship by being single out to others". Scarlet Letter style.

 

I have no issue with them requiring vaccination the way they require a passport. That is NOT discrimination. It's the brandishing part I am uncertain of.

[harkinmr]

1 minute ago, BecciBoo said:

Did he actually say "We don't care"  ?

Basically. 
 

https://www.wesh.com/article/desantis-norwegian-cruise-line/36420109

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, harkinmr said:

 

Or maybe not.  
 

https://www.wesh.com/article/desantis-norwegian-cruise-line/36420109

 

 

He is entitled to change his mind, especially when push comes to shove.  Looking back, on several occasions he has changed his tune on some issues. 

[jrapps]

1 minute ago, BecciBoo said:

Did he actually say "We don't care"  ?

In "political speak" as far as I am concerned. Say it without quite saying it 

 

From the article above:

"Norwegian's not one of the big ones, by the way. Cruise lines have been operating in other parts of the world where there's no access to vaccine,” DeSantis said. "These cruise lines are ready to go: Royal Caribbean, Carnival."

 

The governor added: "At the same time, our state policy is our state policy. But I can tell you this, if one of the smaller ones says they somehow don't want that, that niche will get filled in Florida."

[harkinmr]

1 minute ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

He is entitled to change his mind, especially when push comes to shove.  Looking back, on several occasions he has changed his tune on some issues. 

We will see. 

[coldflame]

Just now, livingonthebeach said:

 

He is entitled to change his mind, especially when push comes to shove.  Looking back, on several occasions he has changed his tune on some issues. 

 

There's nothing pushing the shove here. People are making how a big deal cruise industry is to the state, but it's really not. If you read through the court filings, cruise line tax impact only represents about 2% of the state budget and the overall economy of the state is firing on all cylinders. So this is small stakes, he can afford to lose and he's acting on those.

[BecciBoo]

5 minutes ago, jrapps said:

I have no issue with them requiring vaccination the way they require a passport. That is NOT discrimination. It's the brandishing part I am uncertain of.

Went back and re-read the OP.  I think that IS discriminatory, only because it's none of anybody else's business whether or not you got the vaccine.  That information can be discreatly carried on the boarding bracelets without branding anyone.

[livingonthebeach]

Just now, coldflame said:

There's nothing pushing the shove here. People are making how a big deal cruise industry is to the state, but it's really not. If you read through the court filings, cruise line tax impact only represents about 2% of the state budget and the overall economy of the state is firing on all cylinders. So this is small stakes, he can afford to lose and he's acting on those.

 

That's one way to look at it.

 

The way I see it, It's a huge deal for the cities that have ports and have invested billions of dollars in infrastructure and maintaining the ports.  There are also a lot of local jobs and businesses that depend on the cruise industry.  That's a lot of votes or non-votes, I should say.  He will have to weigh the costs associated with whatever he decides.  

[ricka47]

23 minutes ago, coldflame said:

 

Disney is no rush. They have their parks, entertainment, licensing and streaming service making the bulk of their profits. They could wait another year and not break a sweat.

 

As for being too much as stake, not really -- at all. As per court documents tax revenues from the cruise industry are around 2% of the state budget, which is why you see DeSantis so defiant to any threats by the cruise line.

 

But, tax revenues don't tell the whole story, does it? What about jobs, hotels, and other ancillary businesses. I like to watch the fork lifts load all the stuff on an Oasis-class ship or any ship for that matter. All of that created jobs and money for people and benefit the state as well.

 

Plus, it's fun to imagine how much of that I can eat and drink!

[S1drfl]

3 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

 

LOL — let’s make it a status symbol instead of a scarlet..uhm lime green letter — sort of like a Pinn pin.  If they give the lime green light, I’ll crowdfund the initiative.  I’ve even developed some prototypes.

 

 

Interesting idea, but you'll have to get in line.  ImmunaBand

[broberts]

Would it violate FL law if cruise lines simply stated that passengers must be vaccinated to board and ask them to sign a declaration to that effect?

 

If not it seems to me this should be sufficient. Especially if all passengers are warned of legal liability for making a false declaration.

[not-enough-cruising]

2 minutes ago, broberts said:

Would it violate FL law if cruise lines simply stated that passengers must be vaccinated to board and ask them to sign a declaration to that effect?

 

If not it seems to me this should be sufficient. Especially if all passengers are warned of legal liability for making a false declaration.

Yes, that would be a violation, according to the governor (who is overstepping the authority of his office IMO)

[CruisingHogFan]

 

Why does most of the Republican Party think it’s so important to enforce proof of ID to vote but think vaccine proof shouldn’t be allowed?? Kinda ironic.... 

[livingonthebeach]

26 minutes ago, S1drfl said:

 

Interesting idea, but you'll have to get in line.  ImmunaBand

 

Phooey!  Someone beat me to it....back to the drawing board.  How about a t-shirt required at boarding?  No T-Shirt no boarding pass.