How would I fit in on Cunard?

[Dermotsgirl]

13 hours ago, shipgeeks said:

Coat = suit jacket or sportscoat.

What’s a sportscoat?
 

it sounds like a very casual item, nothing at all like a suit jacket. 

[shipgeeks]

In the mentioned context of "coat and tie", a sportscoat would be like a suit jacket, but not necessarily matched to the trousers.

[BigMac1953]

In the UK, it's a sports jacket.

[Windsurfboy]

2 minutes ago, shipgeeks said:

In the mentioned context of "coat and tie", a sportscoat would be like a suit jacket, but not necessarily matched to the trousers.

 

One language  , two meanings that have drifted apart over the centuries 

 

On this side of the pond a coat is an outer garment worn outside to protect you from the cold weather. To be taken off when one comes inside. Hence Victoria2's joke

 

What is worn when inside a building is referred to as a jacket , whether part of a suit or stand alone. Sports jacket is a throwback to the days of Downton, gentlemen either wore suits , or a tweed jacket for shooting. 

[exlondoner]

3 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

One language  , two meanings that have drifted apart over the centuries 

 

On this side of the pond a coat is an outer garment worn outside to protect you from the cold weather. To be taken off when one comes inside. Hence Victoria2's joke

 

What is worn when inside a building is referred to as a jacket , whether part of a suit or stand alone. Sports jacket is a throwback to the days of Downton, gentlemen either wore suits , or a tweed jacket for shooting. 

In the 1950s and 1960s, my father used sometimes to have to go to the office on Saturday mornings. On those occasions, he wore a sports jacket, in contrast to the business suit he wore on weekdays. 

[Windsurfboy]

12 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

In the 1950s and 1960s, my father used sometimes to have to go to the office on Saturday mornings. On those occasions, he wore a sports jacket, in contrast to the business suit he wore on weekdays. 

 

What I  should have said is the name sports jacket is a throwback.......

 

I remember  my father doing the same as yours.

[shipgeeks]

Thank you all for the UK clarifications.

Here in the US, coat is an outdoor, winter garment as well.

The phrase "coat and tie"  was very familiar to me as what a man would traditionally wear to church, office, etc.

[Victoria2]

20 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

One language  , two meanings that have drifted apart over the centuries 

 

On this side of the pond a coat is an outer garment worn outside to protect you from the cold weather. To be taken off when one comes inside. Hence Victoria2's joke

 

What is worn when inside a building is referred to as a jacket , whether part of a suit or stand alone. Sports jacket is a throwback to the days of Downton, gentlemen either wore suits , or a tweed jacket for shooting. 

Thank you for your comment Wsb. I appreciate it.

 

I knew exactly what was meant by the coat [US] remark v jacket [UK] but felt a little levity was required as true to form, feelings run high when anything dress code'ish is discussed.

 

What a nice change though, to read about something which pertains to future cruising rather than how many trips have and will be cancelled due to the dreaded virus.

 

Roll on the Cunard itineraries for the remainder of '21 and for '22 and beyond.

 

[Jim9310]

On 6/27/2021 at 3:51 AM, exlondoner said:

 

Cunard has many other things to recommend it. The dress code may be one, but there are lots of other things - the peacefulness, the calming decor, the lectures, (usually) the food, the quiet kindness and efficiency of the staff.  Go for it.

 

I’m glad you said this, because this CC board does not adequately cover all of the outstanding reasons why Cunard cruises are exceptional.   Overall, balanced enthusiasm is lacking.

There are inadequate personalized discussions of onboard venues, shore excursions, lectures, special events, performances, favorite crew members, etc.  There are too many extended discussions of the dress code and themes for gala evenings. 

[Host Hattie]

Feel free to start threads discussing any or all of the above !

[Jim9310]

44 minutes ago, Host Hattie said:

Feel free to start threads discussing any or all of the above !

 

Perhaps I can do so, eventually .  My initial booking on QM2 (i.e. 2022 World Cruise) has been cancelled. 

I agree with exlondener.   I encountered the same type of "off-putting" comments now provided  to MamallamaAndDaddy but was ultimately enticed by the itinerary.

 

[bluemarble]

Aside from the dress code being a passionate topic for many posters here, it keeps getting discussed here because we keep getting questions about it, more than other topics about the overall Cunard experience. In my view, that's partly because Cunard doesn't do all that great a job of spelling out the details of the dress code on their main website for those that haven't yet booked a voyage.

 

First case in point from the latest "What to pack" page on the Cunard website. Here is the paragraph that describes the "Smart Attire" dress code (emphasis mine).

 

"If you do want to make an effort in the evening you won’t be alone. The majority of guests traveling with us embrace the chance to switch to smart attire by night. This doesn’t mean you’ll be expected to wear a gown or dinner jacket each evening. Smart attire simply means a dress shirt and trousers, skirt and a top, or a cocktail dress. Essentially, choose something along the same vein as you’d wear to a formal restaurant or the theater on a special occasion."

 

The sample photos do show both gentlemen wearing jackets. And those of us in the know are aware jackets are now optional on Smart Attire evenings in Australia and on embarkation evenings for some other itineraries. But I think it's little wonder we get questions about whether jackets are required or not.

 

Second case in point. I can no longer find anywhere on the main Cunard website (prior to booking a voyage) that spells out which venues are the designated casual venues.

 

All the "What to pack" page seems to offer are assurances such as "you’ll find many areas on board where casual dress is welcome." and "if you don’t wish to take part you’ll still have a choice of dining venues and bars to pass time in." Again, I think it's little wonder we get questions about where the evening dress code applies.

Edited June 28, 2021 by bluemarble

[david,Mississauga]

8 hours ago, BigMac1953 said:

In the UK, it's a sports jacket.

 

In Canada we often used the term blazer as an alternative to sports jacket/sports coat. I know there is a difference, but most people don't care. For informal nights on Cunard I usually wear a classic navy blazer with brass buttons - and a tie even though it is optional.

Edited June 28, 2021 by david,Mississauga

[TouchstoneFeste]

4 hours ago, bluemarble said:

"If you do want to make an effort in the evening you won’t be alone. The majority of guests traveling with us embrace the chance to switch to smart attire by night. This doesn’t mean you’ll be expected to wear a gown or dinner jacket each evening. Smart attire simply means a dress shirt and trousers, skirt and a top, or a cocktail dress. Essentially, choose something along the same vein as you’d wear to a formal restaurant or the theater on a special occasion."

 

 

I follow a kilt forum where, naturally, terms for different grades of dress are often thrown about, and every so often the participants need to supply a British-to-US lexicon. I can assure you that adding "dress shirt" to the discussion will only muddy things.

 

Caveats:

1) I don't know the Australian or New Zealand equivalents. There are probably also regional variants I'm not taking into account.

2) Canadians and Central and South Americans: Forgive me ... I'm going to use the term "Americans" to mean "people from the US". I know you're in America, too.

 

Of course, please correct me if I'm wrong. It's possible the kilt guys are just having me on.

 

*****

The shirt you wear with black or white tie dress. US: "formal shirt, tux shirt"; British: "dress shirt".

 

The shirt you wear with a business suit and tie (the actual suit and tie are optional, but that's what it's made for): US: "dress shirt"; British: ?

 

The jacket part of black or white tie. US: "tuxedo jacket" (rarely, "tux coat"); British: "dinner jacket".

 

The trousers part of black or white tie. US: "tux pants"; British: I don't know (it's kilt forum, after all), but I know it's not "pants".

 

Let's not get into "suspenders".

 

Jackets and suits.

 

In a men's suit, both cultures, the jacket and trousers have matching fabrics and styles. Brits often call these "lounge suits"; Americans may call this a "business suit". (My brother calls it a "funeral suit".)

 

Americans use the term "jacket" to mean any full-sleeved thing worn on the upper body that isn't a shirt, as long as it's not knitted or otherwise clearly a sweater (British: "jumper"). Can include: the top half of a business suit; a sport coat; a blazer; or a casual waist-length thing with zippers or snaps (or rarely, buttons). Don't know the precise British usage.

 

Coat: In the US, the word "coat" can encompass anything in the American "jacket" definition, PLUS the British definition below.

 

Coat: I really didn't know this before the current discussion, but in Britain, apparently this term is reserved for the worn-for-warmth outer thing and does not include any of the items Americans include in "jacket".

 

Sports coat, sport jacket (and variations with and without internal spaces or extra "s"s). Originally: a hunting jacket, often patch pockets, more casual fit and fabric than a lounge or buisness suit, worn without regard to matching trousers. In both British and US usage, now covers items with much more fashionable fit and fabric, but never worn with matching trousers.

 

Blazer. Originally a boating jacket, frequently in navy blue, often with patch pockets and metallic buttons and a slightly trimmer fit and fabric than the original sport coats. Like the sport coat, has undergone an upgrade over the years. Like the sport coat, never worn with matching trousers.

 

In the US at least, "sport coat" and "blazer" are often used interchangeably.

[TouchstoneFeste]

4 minutes ago, TouchstoneFeste said:

@bluemarble quotes Cunard: "Smart attire simply means a dress shirt and trousers, skirt and a top, or a cocktail dress."

 

Quote

The shirt you wear with black or white tie dress. US: "formal shirt, tux shirt"; British: "dress shirt".

 

The shirt you wear with a business suit and tie (the actual suit and tie are optional, but that's what it's made for): US: "dress shirt"; British: ?

 

Using the term "dress shirt" is only adding to the confusion. I presume this is on the US site.

Edited June 28, 2021 by TouchstoneFeste
correction

[TouchstoneFeste]

4 hours ago, bluemarble said:

This doesn’t mean you’ll be expected to wear a gown or dinner jacket each evening. Smart attire simply means a dress shirt and trousers, skirt and a top, or a cocktail dress. Essentially, choose something along the same vein as you’d wear to a formal restaurant or the theater on a special occasion."

 

The problem here is that they jump directly from "dinner jacket" (which doesn't mean anything to an American; we call them "tux jackets") to no jacket at all.

 

Oy vey.

[bluemarble]

37 minutes ago, TouchstoneFeste said:

Using the term "dress shirt" is only adding to the confusion. I presume this is on the US site.

 

I'm finding identical verbiage on the "What to pack" page of all three of Cunard's main English-language websites (the sites for the US, the UK and Australia).

[shipgeeks]

Whew!

We had a similar discussion, but regarding women's clothing, on the Fashion and Beauty forum a few months ago.  I don't recall that any defined formality or otherwise, but it was quite interesting.  Having lived in Australia, I knew Jumper, Frock, Tights, Costume (sweater, dress, pantihose, swimsuit); there were other big differences, mainly between UK and US words.

[Windsurfboy]

I continue to be amazed at how they turn the simple task into such confusion. 

 

You write one definative version  in Either English or American..

 

Someone,  with a rudimentary knowledge of both cultures translates it for the other version of English.

 

You then translate it into foreign languages

[Lakesregion]

One of the largest problems are the words "Smart Attire" There are places in the world where "smart attire" requires a suit or at the lowest end a blazer, dress shirt and tie plus wool or linen slacks Then there are other places in the world say in many a back water region of the US where "smart attire" only requires a clean t shirt and jeans with out hammer loops and holes. Pretty broad range for two words.

[lissie]

9 minutes ago, Lakesregion said:

One of the largest problems are the words "Smart Attire" There are places in the world where "smart attire" requires a suit or at the lowest end a blazer, dress shirt and tie plus wool or linen slacks Then there are other places in the world say in many a back water region of the US where "smart attire" only requires a clean t shirt and jeans with out hammer loops and holes. Pretty broad range for two words.

I agree. Formal is pretty easy, particularly for men. Though to this day I'm amused that there is no mention in the code for formal white jacket - ie what all the officers wear in warmer climates. 

 

Smart attire is a complete nightmare. Saying its what you wear to a show or a smart restaurant doesn't help. I'm going to see Lion King in Auckland tomorrow. The forecast is freezing - what will I wear - wool sneakers, merino black pants, merino top (s) and a heavy jacket.  I will wear exactly what I will wear to fly to the city that morning - I don't dress up to go to a show - and I can't remember the last time I did - maybe over 20 years ago? 

 

Smart restaurant - again rarely would I change to go to dinner - in summer I'd swap shorts for a skirt or trousers - that would be it. I'd  change out of anything dirt or smelly. But its not a different level of dress as such. 

 

I have travelled a lot though - if you tell me what percentage of Brits, Australians  and Americans will be on the ship then I can dress appropriately. 

[Victoria2]

For those who are flummoxed by the what to wear  terminology, and it is a bit loose when world dress cultures are involved, the Cunard site has photographs to help.

[Windsurfboy]

4 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

For those who are flummoxed by the what to wear  terminology, and it is a bit loose when world dress cultures are involved, the Cunard site has photographs to help.

 

I think people are more flummoxed why a huge company makes such a mess of communication , when they know they are dealing with multiple cultures, than by what to wear

 

 The photos are pretty uninspiring and only examples

 

The formal dress code is clear if you use American terms e.g Tuxedo on US website , English terms on English site  German on German ......

 

Day time is clear "wear what you are comfortable with". 

 

It's other evenings. I think the key is not to use ambiguous terms like smart attire.  Simply Spell out what they mean, for example long trousers no jeans , a collared shirt and a jacket (coat in US) , no trainers for men, or what whatever Cunard choose it's up to them just use words that have a unique meaning

Edited June 29, 2021 by Windsurfboy

[Victoria2]

The photos are pretty uninspiring but they are  examples for those in a quandary.  The terminology is 'loose' too but thousands of people a year cope without resorting to social media. 

If in doubt, follow the photos initially and sort out daily wear once on board.

 

This is a holiday, not a trial by dress code some seem to want to make it.

[Underwatr]

On 6/29/2021 at 6:56 AM, Windsurfboy said:

The photos are pretty uninspiring and only examples

They do clarify jacket/sportscoat requirements however.