Freedom Venues Vaccinated/Unvaccinated Rules Spelled Out

[Dat Cruisin Couple]

13 minutes ago, cured said:

In order for it to be discrimination, it needs to be against a category that cannot be changed by the person being discriminated against such as color of skin, sexual orientation, medical status, cognitive ability, etc.

 

A person cannot change the color of their skin to be able to access the casino, so it is discrimination if they are banned from the casino.  The person who is eligible for the vaccine but chooses to not get the vaccine can change his/her circumstances to be allowed in the casino. So it is not discrimination as the person has access to the casino if they want to follow health protocols. It is a choice of the unvaccinated and merely a health protocol.  It is no different than banning the pregnant woman after a certain time frame of pregnancy from cruising.

It also only covers a range of actions/subjects such as employment, availability of housing, rates of pay, right to promotion, educational opportunity, civil rights like voting, marriage, owning firearms. Choosing a vacation isn't part of that list.

[Russ Lomas]

43 minutes ago, exm said:

Once again, CDC numbers clearly state that the younger the child, the less likely it's a carrier of COVID. It seems that for some reason COVID can't penetrate younger kids' cells so in effect younger kids are also immune. Royal should differentiate between age rangers for kids. And yes, this is science that can be found directly on the CDC website.

I cannot speak for every place in the world, but the positive new cases of Covid where we live are becoming more prevalent in younger people.  This could very well be because a good portion of the older population are now vaccinated.  What they are finding is though that the Delta variant has been prevalent in younger victims.

[exm]

5 minutes ago, Russ Lomas said:

I cannot speak for every place in the world, but the positive new cases of Covid where we live are becoming more prevalent in younger people.  This could very well be because a good portion of the older population are now vaccinated.  What they are finding is though that the Delta variant has been prevalent in younger victims.

 

Again, define younger. It's mostly if not all teenagers.

[tinkertwo]

1 hour ago, coffeebean said:

I believe this whole line of discussion started out as "tongue in cheek". We all know that Las Vegas is not accessible by cruise ship. It was just a joke. LOL.

I once had a friend who told me she was going to drive to the Bahamas.  It was not a joke.  

[TheMastodon]

On 6/28/2021 at 11:01 AM, harkinmr said:

RCI does not need to jump through the hoops that it is in Florida. Celebrity just set sail from FLL with 99% vaccinated passengers and voluntary submission of vaccination proof. No problem with Florida government. Carnival will be proceeding with a similar plan. No less than 95% vaccinated.  RCI made a choice to welcome a larger percentage of unvaccinated passengers, including adults, thereby creating discomfort for both vaccinated and unvaccinated passengers.  Their call, and not the right one given the overall reaction. 

 

Yep.  So dumb

[jerseygirl3]

18 hours ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

I hope things change by November, but at this time I am not thrilled that my unvaxxed 10 yo child will be limited to areas full of unvaxxed adults. While it's not a problem for him (or any of us) to wear a mask at any of the indoor venues, like theater or ice shows where we are not eating or drinking, I am worried about congregating in the MDR limited to unvaxxed passengers only. And the fact that none of the passengers with kids can just take a taxi to the beach, keeping away from the crowds, but must actually ride a bus/ferry with the unvaxxed adults, is not going to keep the children safe.

 

We've kept him safe by doing remote schooling for the whole year, no sports, no extracurricular activities, no playdates with his BFF who went to school in person... However, now the teachers are all vaccinated, and all of the adults in his life as well, so even though there won't be any remote schooling in August, I find a small consolation in the fact that all of the people at the school are vaccinated.

 

So, needless to say - I am torn. It's already a risk to cruise with an unvaccinated child, but when the cruise line itself limits the already vulnerable kids to the areas with unvaccinated adults and teens only - the risk increases. 

At the same time, we haven't had a vacation in 2 years, thanks to covid. This cruise was L&S... We really want to cruise, and we are even willing to wear masks indoors.

If you’ve kept your child home from school for the past year, why would you risk taking him on a cruise and expose him to unvaccinated passengers.  I’m not saying that to be snarky. I’m just really wondering.  Even if they didn’t separate the 2 groups, you would surely still be putting him at risk on a ship. My brother and SIL wouldn’t commit to attending our family reunion until they verified that everyone was fully vaccinated. We all are, so it will be safe for their 7  and 3 year olds 

[Itchy&Scratchy]

18 minutes ago, jerseygirl3 said:

If you’ve kept your child home from school for the past year, why would you risk taking him on a cruise and expose him to unvaccinated passengers.

that's why I said I was torn. Our cruise is in November, and the school will be in person, starting the first week of August. As of this time, we still don't dine indoors, go anywhere without a mask (indoors) or visit with unvaccinated people without a mask and social distancing or outdoors and distancing. I hope things will get better by November, but seeing how only 38% are vaccinated in our state - it is doubtful. 

 

To be honest, I was more afraid that our kid would get Covid and bring it home to me. I am high risk due to several factors (co-morbidities)*. Now that my DH and I are vaccinated - there is less risk for us, although it's not a zero.

 

*You never know, though. My elderly dad survived Covid even with several co-morbidities, while my much younger, healthy cousin did not. And my dad fared better both in terms of symptoms and the lasting effects than my niece who is in her 20s (she ended up in the hospital on the ventilator and months later still isn't anywhere near 100%).

Edited June 29, 2021 by Itchy&Scratchy

[jerseygirl3]

38 minutes ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

that's why I said I was torn. Our cruise is in November, and the school will be in person, starting the first week of August. As of this time, we still don't dine indoors, go anywhere without a mask (indoors) or visit with unvaccinated people without a mask and social distancing or outdoors and distancing. I hope things will get better by November, but seeing how only 38% are vaccinated in our state - it is doubtful. 

 

To be honest, I was more afraid that our kid would get Covid and bring it home to me. I am high risk due to several factors (co-morbidities)*. Now that my DH and I are vaccinated - there is less risk for us, although it's not a zero.

 

*You never know, though. My elderly dad survived Covid even with several co-morbidities, while my much younger, healthy cousin did not. And my dad fared better both in terms of symptoms and the lasting effects than my niece who is in her 20s (she ended up in the hospital on the ventilator and months later still isn't anywhere near 100%).

I see your point. I’m not very hopeful about things improving significantly by November. Is it possible for you to switch to a different cruiseline that is almost fully vaccinated and would not put your son at as great a risk? 

[coffeebean]

13 hours ago, Heymarco said:

So what’s it like on the 95% cruises? Hopefully kids don’t have to wear a mask? Nothing stranger than a healthy two year old forced to wear a mask onboard a ship of fully vaccinated healthy people without masks. But I digress as logic, reason, and tolerable risk have long since flew out the window.

My understanding is no one has to wear a mask anywhere on the ship on the 95/100% vaxxed cruises. THAT is the way to go, IMHO.

[coffeebean]

11 hours ago, OSUZorba said:

You don't understand why people don't like kids that have no choice in not being vaccinated being forced to be surrounded by adults that have chosen to put those around them at a higher risk? The adults have chosen to take high risks with theirs and other's health, why give them targets with children?

 

To be clear, I don't mind kids having higher restriction than vaccinated adults. But it isn't right to force unvaxxed kids into the same spaces as unvaxxed adults (MDR, Shows, Excursions, etc). If they want to make a unvaxxed adults section far away from the unvaxxed kids section, fine.

The cruise line is certainly NOT "forcing" kids to be in areas with a bunch of un-vaxxed adults. That falls strictly on their parents who make the choice to bring their un-vaxxed children on a cruise. Take the kids on a land based vacation where the parents can control the environment their children are exposed to. Blame should not be placed on the cruise line.

[coffeebean]

9 hours ago, Biker19 said:

What if masking is imposed after you leave the dock? 

Are you referring to a ship with 95/100% vaxxed passengers? I would make a wager that masking of those fully vaxxed passengers would not be imposed after leaving the dock. Not only would that be bad publicity for the cruise line, it would be very damaging for the cruise industry.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

55 minutes ago, jerseygirl3 said:

I see your point. I’m not very hopeful about things improving significantly by November. Is it possible for you to switch to a different cruiseline that is almost fully vaccinated and would not put your son at as great a risk? 

Not really. There are 5 of us traveling, and we got a great deal on this with KSF. If I switch, I'll lose a lot of money. 

[coffeebean]

3 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

I'm sailing Allure in Sept..no way do I think the vaccinated need to be masked up in many areas of the ship.  

Unfortunately, that is the protocol at this moment in time from the CDC. Hopefully, that protocol will be eased up and vaxxed will not have to mask. BUT>>>>there must be a way to identify vaxxed from un-vaxxed at a glance. My best guess would be to give vaxxed people ID bands which are in full view of everyone on board.

[coffeebean]

3 hours ago, ZoeyVictoria said:

I wonder if the people who are medically exempt from the vaccine due to something out of their control could safely weather a COVID infection?  Or would they be wise to avoid putting themselves in any situation where they are likely to be exposed?  The risks of travel involve much more than the time spent on a ship.

This medical exemption reason may just be overused, in my most humble opinion. Please, don't get me wrong. I'm aware there are some people who can not take either type of the vaccine because of being immunocompromised.

 

Then, there are those who claim they are allergic to an ingredient in the vaccine. Well.....with two types of vaccines that are being used in the US, there must be ONE of those vaccines that a person is not allergic to. Just me thinking out loud.

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, BSocial said:

Sure they do.  My family loves to cruise, but if one of us were medically unable to get the COVID vaccine, we  would not choose a cruise vacation at this time.   That would be our choice 
 

We would not put our family member at risk on a cruise ship, or at ports where COVID may be flourishing.  
 

This train of thought is just level headed for some, I guess. Why else would these people who are unable to be vaccinated still insist that they must cruise?

[ZoeyVictoria]

1 minute ago, coffeebean said:

This medical exemption reason may just be overused, in my most humble opinion. Please, don't get me wrong. I'm aware there are some people who can not take either type of the vaccine because of being immunocompromised.

 

Then, there are those who claim they are allergic to an ingredient in the vaccine. Well.....with two types of vaccines that are being used in the US, there must be ONE of those vaccines that a person is not allergic to. Just me thinking out loud.

I agree.  It is the immunocompromised who I believe should be more concerned with the risks of traveling that being discriminated against.  

[coffeebean]

3 hours ago, MommaBear55 said:

How do you feel about the vaccinated having to wear masks in airports and on airplanes? It's not much different

That is a Federal mandate and there is no getting around that. As very frequent leisure travelers, hubby and I have decided not to travel as long as these mask mandates remain in effect for fully vaccinated people. It is our decision to hold off on our leisure travel.

[coffeebean]

3 hours ago, cured said:

In order for it to be discrimination, it needs to be against a category that cannot be changed by the person being discriminated against such as color of skin, sexual orientation, medical status, cognitive ability, etc.

 

A person cannot change the color of their skin to be able to access the casino, so it is discrimination if they are banned from the casino.  The person who is eligible for the vaccine but chooses to not get the vaccine can change his/her circumstances to be allowed in the casino. So it is not discrimination as the person has access to the casino if they want to follow health protocols. It is a choice of the unvaccinated and merely a health protocol.  It is no different than banning the pregnant woman after a certain time frame of pregnancy from cruising.

Totally agree. This is exactly what I said upthread but worded it differently.

[coffeebean]

4 hours ago, Russ Lomas said:

Seems simple enough but you can only imagine the scene those not permitted on the ship after travelling across the country or possibly the world and then being denied at the gangway.  I think RCCL is smarter than this and will be "selecting" (no idea how they choose to do this though) prior to people heading to the port that they will not be allowed on the ship since the 95% threshold had been reached and that is the risk that those who are unvaccinated will have to understand.  This seems very unfair to those who will be denied, and I feel for those individuals, but RCCL needs to ensure that there are no major outbreaks aboard if they want to continue to operate.

Royal is NOT doing it this way out of Florida but all other cruise lines are. Royal, OTOH, is doing it this way out of all other ports, just not in Florida.

Edited June 29, 2021 by coffeebean

[jerseygirl3]

2 hours ago, coffeebean said:

Unfortunately, that is the protocol at this moment in time from the CDC. Hopefully, that protocol will be eased up and vaxxed will not have to mask. BUT>>>>there must be a way to identify vaxxed from un-vaxxed at a glance. My best guess would be to give vaxxed people ID bands which are in full view of everyone on board.

Actually this is not the protocol that the cdc is imposing. The cruise lines that are restricting unvaccinated passengers (max 5%) are not mandating masks for the vaccinated. Only Royal sailings out of Florida are mandating masks for everyone because they are allowing unlimited amounts of unvaccinated on their ships. I suppose the reason is there is no way to constantly verify who is and is not vaccinated, therefore, all have to mask. 

[harkinmr]

 

3 minutes ago, jerseygirl3 said:

Actually this is not the protocol that the cdc is imposing. The cruise lines that are restricting unvaccinated passengers (max 5%) are not mandating masks for the vaccinated. Only Royal sailings out of Florida are mandating masks for everyone because they are allowing unlimited amounts of unvaccinated on their ships. I suppose the reason is there is no way to constantly verify who is and is not vaccinated, therefore, all have to mask. 

I would agree.  Because they will have more unvaccinated adults on board, it is a lot more difficult to monitor compliance than just unvaccinated children.  But it is also because the CDC has not given them the discretion to allow fully vaccinated passengers on a hybrid cruise to go maskless other than in designated areas.  I would imagine that even if that guidance were to come out, RCI may not even apply it because of the headaches involved in policing it.  

[link99]

Looks like more rules and cost for unvaccinated. Aug 01 to Dec 31 2021 unvaccinated will have to buy insurance that covers COVID-19 Medical and Travel  for all persons 12 and up. Getting a little more expensive. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by link99

[Russ Lomas]

8 hours ago, coffeebean said:

My understanding is no one has to wear a mask anywhere on the ship on the 95/100% vaxxed cruises. THAT is the way to go, IMHO.

The full answer is that nobody knows what masking requirements will be for ships leaving from Florida for sure.  Michael Bayley has posted that come August he expects mask wearing on ships to look significantly different from in July.

 

7 hours ago, coffeebean said:

Royal is NOT doing it this way out of Florida but all other cruise lines are. Royal, OTOH, is doing it this way out of all other ports, just not in Florida.

I believe you are correct and I mixed up protocols (there are so many of them and they are constantly changing).  I posted too early this morning while not fully awake.  My mistake - until they change the rules again...

[J9sling]

6 hours ago, OSUZorba said:

If the parent chooses to take their kid on the ship...the ship is forcing the kids to be in close proximity to the potential carriers. This is less safe for the kids that don't have option to be vaccinated and increases the likelihood of an outbreak.

 

Again, I don't mind kids having more restrictions, but they shouldn't be grouped with the adults that couldn't care less if they make those around them sick. The best solution is to keep the plague rats off the ship altogether, not tell parents "well we have to cuddle the adults that act like children, so if your kid gets sick it's ultimately your fault."

You make a great point and certainly make a case for why parents should not cruise with their children right now. My guess is that the cruise line is focusing their attention on the desired passenger, the vaccinated one. They are not prohibiting children but they are not catering to them. I wouldn’t bring children on a cruise right now just for this reason. No matter what, unvaccinated children and adults are much more likely to spread the virus.   

[forgotmyCCname]

13 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Thank you. It is indeed a tragic event and one that personally affects me as I have a friend underneath that rubble and live in a high-rise on the same barrier island.  It will also affect everyone who has property on the ocean, to some degree. As it will take many resources and time to get to the bottom of what caused it, I don't believe cruise line protocols are of any major concern to the State of Florida at the moment. 

Oh, I am so sorry!!!