Floatplane crash families sue HAL even though they did not sell the excursion.

[DaveOKC]

While I really feel badly for the families involved, I do think that suing HAL over this is a bit much, since HAL did not sell them the excursion.  If they win, where does the liability stop??

 

"The families of four tourists killed in an Alaskan floatplane crash last year have sued Holland America Line, alleging the Seattle-based cruise company pressures outside excursion operators to take unnecessary risks to meet cruise schedules and doesn't warn passengers of excursion dangers.

The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Seattle, alleges Holland America knew of the dangers because passengers on previous trips had died in similar crashes. Rather than warning its passengers that such trips come with risks, the lawsuit accuses Holland America of merely requiring floatplane excursion operators — most of which are independent businesses — to add the cruise line company to their insurance policies.

 

"Under maritime law, the Holland Defendants had a duty to warn passengers of these risks," the lawsuit says. "Thus, the Holland Defendants response ... was to protect itself from liability rather than protect its cruise passengers — by mitigating associated risks or warning its passengers of the risks involved in floatplane excursions."

 

Edited August 13, 2022 by DaveOKC

[carlmm]

One feels with their loss but this is ridicolous. 

Or maybe just the greed of some lawyers.

[MAVIP]

18 minutes ago, DaveOKC said:

While I really feel badly for the families involved, I do think that suing HAL over this is a bit much, since HAL did not sell them the excursion.  If they win, where does the liability stop??

 

"The families of four tourists killed in an Alaskan floatplane crash last

 

"Under maritime law, the Holland Defendants had a duty to warn passengers of these risks," the lawsuit says. "Thus, the Holland Defendants response ... was to protect itself from liability rather than protect its cruise passengers — by mitigating associated risks or warning its passengers of the risks involved in floatplane excursions."

 

Are we getting crazy in this world? Our behaviour i.c. booking that plane trip, is our own responsibility. And maybe can be included our excluded from our own personal insurance. 

[ottahand7]

8 minutes ago, MAVIP said:

Are we getting crazy in this world? Our behaviour i.c. booking that plane trip, is our own responsibility. And maybe can be included our excluded from our own personal insurance. 

I agree.  Thanks.

[1ANGELCAT]

I hope HAL doesn’t settle just to make this go away. Not to be nasty but, from what I remember one of the victims was a flight attendant and had to know the risks of flying. 

 

[Boatdrill]

"....alleging the Seattle-based cruise company pressures outside excursion operators to take unnecessary risks to meet cruise schedules and doesn't warn passengers of excursion dangers."

 

I'm curious as to what the unnecessary risks would be to meet schedules.

 

Non-HAL excursion dangers:  how much do they want HAL to mention about tours they don't operate ? That there's no air traffic control for those planes...that the weather can change on a dime and suddenly it's not safe to fly in and out of fjords...that tour helicopters have a lower threshold than planes for flying in bad weather and many of those tours are cancelled because of it? 

 

If so, then comes the next law suit, by the independent aviation tour operators, against HAL, for maligning their business.  

 

 

 

 

[TiogaCruiser]

Here’s the link, with more details towards the end. This lawsuit wreaks of opportunism to me.

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/families-of-4-killed-in-alaska-floatplane-crash-sue-holland-america-alleging-cruise-company-pressures-excursion-operators/?amp=1

[GeorgeCharlie]

All a person has to do is look at who the attorneys are in this case, to see who's actually chasing the money. James S Rogers is a small (couple of attorneys) firm, which specializes in ambulance chasing and pursuing frivolous claims which no respectable law firm would want. 😠

[SilvertoGold]

At a condominium seminar with a law company the idea was broached that they would take any case: maybe the judge would side with the condominium, maybe not.  They would be happy to "give it a try".  Nothing about the precedents, how strong a case they would be able to make, just that if you are willing to try (pay), they would try.

 

I can see that the tour companies involved might think they need to cut corners (safety pre-flight items, for one) to be able compress the trips and fit in more trips the timespan they have within the ships' schedules.  A very bad thing to even consider, but.......

[Mary229]

Hopefully when this is thrown out HAL will have countersued for frivolous lawsuit damages, something allowed in some states.    I am glad Dave posted this as it serves as a reminder that the cruise ship is not your agent.  They are simply a provider of a limited service 

[Mary229]

1 minute ago, SilvertoGold said:

can see that the tour companies involved might think they need to cut corners (safety pre-flight items, for one) to be able compress the trips and fit in more trips the timespan

This was not a HAL tour.  HAL exercised no control over the logistics of this operator.  What if a restaurant onshore hurriedly prepared food to meet the demands of the cruise ship passengers, you ate it,  you got sick, is that HAL’s fault. 

[Quartzsite Cruiser]

While I have sympathy for the families who lost loved ones in the crash, this lawsuit is another example of a frivolous lawsuit.

 

About ten years ago, we booked a floatplane trip to Misty Fjords on our own since we had a two for one coupon.  We came within seconds of flying into a mountain.  We survived because the pilot pulled up and turned very quickly, but we felt the near miss could have been avoided.. 

 

At no time did we ever consider blaming HAL for the near miss.  They had nothing to do with our decision to book the flight.

 

However, the next time we want to see Misty Fjords, it will be on a boat, and even that comes with risks.

[ski ww]

 My condolences to the families involved. It all boils down to greed.

[DaveOKC]

I have been on this excursion about 3 years ago and it was sold to me by HAL, so I can understand the risks involved.  I need to mention that I had two other exact same excursions (sold by HAL) cancelled before that one and both were  cancelled do to bad weather in the area.  The day we went was picture perfect without any clouds, a rare event for Ketchican, and it was a great tour.

Thus, I have experienced HAL tours cancelling due to weather on this excursion, so I know they pay attention to it.  I really wonder if the HAL excursion went out that day??  I bet they did not.

[DaveOKC]

Just now, DaveOKC said:

I have been on this excursion about 3 years ago and it was sold to me by HAL, so I can understand the risks involved.  I need to mention that I had two other exact same excursions (sold by HAL) cancelled before that one and both were  cancelled do to bad weather in the area.  The day we went was picture perfect without any clouds, a rare event for Ketchican, and it was a great tour.

Thus, I have experienced HAL tours cancelling due to weather on this excursion, so I know they pay attention to it.  I really wonder if the HAL excursion went out that day??  I bet they did not.

Also, consider that this happened last season, when things were just opening back up for Alaska cruises.  The lost business due to Covid could be one of the reasons why the operator went up, needing to make more money - cancelled excursions are a real burden on the tour operators.

 

I have flown in these small planes MANY times (business related and leisure) and I never would go up unless the conditions were fine, and even then it could change quickly on you.

 

Sorry for the rant......  just my opinion of course.

[RAS4331]

They go where the money is.  An independent floatplane operator would never be able to pay a multi million dollar settlement, even if they were ordered to. They would just go bankrupt.  So the attorneys say, hmmmm, who could we include in the suit who WOULD have that kind of money?  Greed.

[SilvertoGold]

2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

This was not a HAL tour.  HAL exercised no control over the logistics of this operator.  What if a restaurant onshore hurriedly prepared food to meet the demands of the cruise ship passengers, you ate it,  you got sick, is that HAL’s fault. 

Definitely HAL was not  in any way to blame in this.  Strictly the tour operator's problem.

Edited August 13, 2022 by SilvertoGold

[esther e]

This reminds me of a local commercial on TV a year or so ago:  If you have a fall, give us a call.  

[iancal]

One rule of litigation, I am led to believe,  is  always go after or include the ones with the deepest pockets or the most insurance. 

 

Seems to me that HAL might have deeper pockets than the tour operator.

 

It does not mean that they will be successful.

 

Edited August 13, 2022 by iancal

[carolina_yankee]

If the stats of 200+ crashes and 80+ dead in the last 15 years is true, I would definitely re-think one of these flights, whether independently or through a cruise company. At least with the cruise company, you know the company is vetted. 

 

As for the suit, I agree that there is no way HAL is responsible. I doubt they would settle. If a company knows they are in the right, they will fight.  Disney is famous for settling as fast as possible when there is even the slightest hint of liability, but if the claim is bogus and they can prove it, they fight tooth and nail.

[crusinbanjo]

Flying small planes in Alaska is quite challenging, primarily because of weather.  I believe Alaska has the highest incidence of aircraft accidents in the country.  So risks are there.  Even as a trained, licensed pilot, I would not just go flying around that area, I leave it to the pilots experienced in the area and even then, I have stayed on the ground if I thought the weather was not right for the flight.

 

so, given that, like most others, I feel for the families, but I don’t think HAL is responsible or liable and the case is frivolous.

[Loreto]

I was on the Nieuw Amsterdam Alaska sailing last summer along with my family when this accident occurred.  This was our first time back on board after the pandemic pause.  My  HAL Ketchican  excursion left by small boat for an island.  The weather was very overcast as the float planes were taking off.  As the day progressed it was raining heavily.  Our port call was lengthened because the ship would not call at Victoria.  By early afternoon the captain announced that a private flying excursion had not returned and had our guests on the flight.  At dinner it was announced that the wreckage had been located and that crisis counselors would be available for anyone .  It was a very sad, traumatic ending to our cruise.  We prayed for those lost.

 

I am somewhat surprised that HAL would be sued and I hope they will not settle.  For many HAL excursions I have signed a waiver and the dangers are clearly spelled out.  I am sure it is the same with private companies too.

[DaveOKC]

43 minutes ago, Loreto said:

I was on the Nieuw Amsterdam Alaska sailing last summer along with my family when this accident occurred.  This was our first time back on board after the pandemic pause.  My  HAL Ketchican  excursion left by small boat for an island.  The weather was very overcast as the float planes were taking off.  As the day progressed it was raining heavily.  Our port call was lengthened because the ship would not call at Victoria.  By early afternoon the captain announced that a private flying excursion had not returned and had our guests on the flight.  At dinner it was announced that the wreckage had been located and that crisis counselors would be available for anyone .  It was a very sad, traumatic ending to our cruise.  We prayed for those lost.

 

I am somewhat surprised that HAL would be sued and I hope they will not settle.  For many HAL excursions I have signed a waiver and the dangers are clearly spelled out.  I am sure it is the same with private companies too.

Do you know if the HAL floatplanes were flying that day?  

[Loreto]

10 minutes ago, DaveOKC said:

Do you know if the HAL floatplanes were flying that day?  

There were a number of float planes taking off, so HAL excursions may have been among them.  A HAL excursion floatplane did crash a few years ago.  As others have stated, it can be very risky.  My husband was a pilot, and we would never chance flightseeing, spectacular is it may be.  This lawsuit just brings back memories of this sad day.  We were having dinner at the Pinnacle Grill with son, wife and 12 year old grand daughter when the announcement was made and the venue became very subdued.  I felt badly for the crew as this should have been a very happy, upbeat return to sailing for them.  

[julia]

@Loreto  I am so sorry to read your account.  We were on the following  sailing, and when sitting in the Lido in Ketchikan, I looked over to the yellow bldg of SW Aviation and said a prayer. Along with the passengers who perished, this community was mourning a dedicated pilot.  The accident was 100% weather related, human error, and tragic, but in no way, shape or form was Holland America even remotely liable for the decision of their passengers to take this tour. I pray this gets tossed and quickly.