Smoking on balcony

[Caper04]

I traveled from Vancouver BC to Sydney Australia on board Royal Princess. My neighbor was smoking on his balcony my husband told him smoking on balcony was not allowed. Our neighbor flicked his ash into a glass and stated I am not smoking. Over the next 2 weeks we contacted and complained to guest services about our neighbors smoking. We were contacted by director of hospitality who stated to call guest services when are neighbor was smoking or to take pictures. So as a paying customer it is now my responsibility to document by pictures of my neighbor smoking. Our room steward was well aware of this. I was able to determine it is not illegal to smoke on your balcony, you must be caught in the act of smoking on your balcony by crew member. As a paying passenger who pays extra for a balcony and your neighbors are smoking a crew member must see this. As we were on a transpacific cruise we would sail for 6 days without seeing land, god forbid we should have had to deal with a fire from a smoker on his balcony and the cruise line accepting responsibility for the safety and security of its passengers. So for smokers wanting to smoke on your balcony go ahead there is no resource. For people who pay for a balcony you may have to put up with smokers near your balcony to bad for you paying extra money for a balcony. You are on your own.

[jsn55]

5 hours ago, Caper04 said:

I traveled from Vancouver BC to Sydney Australia on board Royal Princess. My neighbor was smoking on his balcony my husband told him smoking on balcony was not allowed. Our neighbor flicked his ash into a glass and stated I am not smoking. Over the next 2 weeks we contacted and complained to guest services about our neighbors smoking. We were contacted by director of hospitality who stated to call guest services when are neighbor was smoking or to take pictures. So as a paying customer it is now my responsibility to document by pictures of my neighbor smoking. Our room steward was well aware of this. I was able to determine it is not illegal to smoke on your balcony, you must be caught in the act of smoking on your balcony by crew member. As a paying passenger who pays extra for a balcony and your neighbors are smoking a crew member must see this. As we were on a transpacific cruise we would sail for 6 days without seeing land, god forbid we should have had to deal with a fire from a smoker on his balcony and the cruise line accepting responsibility for the safety and security of its passengers. So for smokers wanting to smoke on your balcony go ahead there is no resource. For people who pay for a balcony you may have to put up with smokers near your balcony to bad for you paying extra money for a balcony. You are on your own.

This must have been quite annoying.  But how else is the ship going to take some action if you don't present proof?  The ship isn't going to assign a crew member to 'watch your neighbor's balcony'.  How do you know the 'steward was well aware of this'?   A cigarette takes about 5 minutes to smoke, so if that's annoying, you'll need to take some action.  Your neighbor was obviously not concerned, since he just blatantly denied that he was smoking when your husband talked to him.  So no hope that he'd change his ways.  

Edited November 2, 2023 by jsn55

[Charles4515]

42 minutes ago, jsn55 said:

This must have been quite annoying.  But how else is the ship going to take some action if you don't present proof?  The ship isn't going to assign a crew member to 'watch your neighbor's balcony'.  How do you know the 'steward was well aware of this'?   A cigarette takes about 5 minutes to smoke, so if that's annoying, you'll need to take some action.  Your neighbor was obviously not concerned, since he just blatantly denied that he was smoking when your husband talked to him.  So no hope that he'd change his ways.  

Obviously proof is needed. I would take pictures or videos as if  you call for a crew member the miscreant is probably already finished by the time they arrive. As for the cabin steward they would have to see it too. I have a pretty good telephoto on my smartphone so I would pull it out and shoot video. It cames out good even at night. I would be obvious about it too.  

[Heidi13]

4 hours ago, jsn55 said:

This must have been quite annoying.  But how else is the ship going to take some action if you don't present proof?  The ship isn't going to assign a crew member to 'watch your neighbor's balcony'.  How do you know the 'steward was well aware of this'?   A cigarette takes about 5 minutes to smoke, so if that's annoying, you'll need to take some action.  Your neighbor was obviously not concerned, since he just blatantly denied that he was smoking when your husband talked to him.  So no hope that he'd change his ways.  

 

Sorry, but under no circumstances is it the responsibility of a pax to gather evidence for the cruise line. The Hotel Services manager was correct to request the pax submitting the complaint to immediately call the Purser's Office, upon observing a repeat offense. However, suggesting the pax take photos of the neighbour actively smoking is a request that is fraught with danger. Had the pax taking photos, as requested by a ship's manager, been assaulted or harmed, at any point on the cruise, the cruise line's liability would be considerable.

 

The smoking pax clearly has a complete disregard for safety and following published guidelines, so his reaction to being photographed smoking has a good probability of resulting in potential danger to the pax submitting the complaint and taking the photo.

 

What should of happened in this case, is the ship accepted the complaint, advising the pax to immediately call the Purser's Office if they see it again. A crew member would then be immediately dispatched. The Hotel Management should visit the offenders cabin, advising they have received a complaint regarding a person smoking on the balcony. They should then review the smoking protocols with said pax.

 

Should the pax subsequently be observed by a crew member, the Master can take disciplinary action, including forceable disembarkation, which is in accordance with most Cruise Line Terms & Conditions.

 

As a Master, provided the pax has already been warned and received a review of the guidelines, I would have no problem with forced disembarkation. 

[ceeceeDee]

Hopefully this inconsiderate (dare I say 'idiot') smoker is in the minority. For pity's sake, how hard is it to go to a designated smoking area rather than risking a devastating ship's fire. Obviously this muppet either hasn't seen photos and reports (or just doesn't care) about the tragic fire on Star Princess in (I think) 2006 as an example. A passenger died as a result of that particular fire. These entitled morons make my blood boil (and I'm a smoker).

As for the ship's staff, surely someone in authority (such as the purser) could, as someone suggested, confront this passenger and reiterate the no smoking in rooms or on balconies policy and perhaps underline the extreme danger of doing so. The OP filed a complaint, surely it is not their responsibility to provide video proof. And in this day and age of litigation, are they opening a legal can of worms if they did take photos or video? I'm certainly not a lawyer so I've no idea if this would be the case but I would certainly be hesitant to put myself in that situation.

[jsn55]

9 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

Obviously proof is needed. I would take pictures or videos as if  you call for a crew member the miscreant is probably already finished by the time they arrive. As for the cabin steward they would have to see it too. I have a pretty good telephoto on my smartphone so I would pull it out and shoot video. It cames out good even at night. I would be obvious about it too.  

Beyond the obvious question of how exactly one would take a photo/video of your neighbor's balcony (stick your arm/hand out around the balcony divider???), I think confronting this goon is a pretty bad idea.  If someone knocked on his door, he'd just not answer.  Doubtful that he has any concern about setting the ship on fire, he'd just scoff that the last incident was in 2006.  I'm a smoker, and like CCD, these kind of ignorant dolts make my blood boil.  However, confronting strangers who are obviously morons is never a great idea.  

[navybankerteacher]

Sadly, the lines do not want to drive away a segment of their market - regardless of how stupid and weak-willed they are- and continue to permit smokers on board.  The sad fact is that anyone stupid/weak enough to remain hooked is going to continue his assault on his neighbors’ health.

[ceeceeDee]

4 hours ago, jsn55 said:

Beyond the obvious question of how exactly one would take a photo/video of your neighbor's balcony (stick your arm/hand out around the balcony divider???), I think confronting this goon is a pretty bad idea.  If someone knocked on his door, he'd just not answer.  Doubtful that he has any concern about setting the ship on fire, he'd just scoff that the last incident was in 2006.  I'm a smoker, and like CCD, these kind of ignorant dolts make my blood boil.  However, confronting strangers who are obviously morons is never a great idea.  

Well, I suppose if the Star Princess fire was mentioned he may well scoff that it was ancient history. However, there have been quite a few fires since (I mentioned that one because of the fatality). Indeed, in June 2023 P&O Australia's Pacific Adventure had a room/balcony fire just outside of Sydney. (My understanding is that it was contained to just that one cabin, but resulted in a couple of thousand passengers being jolted out of bed to spend several hours at their muster stations from around 3am). I haven't seen the official investigation report, but scuttlebutt indicated that it was caused by a cigarette. The point is that smoking anywhere other than the designated smoking areas is inconsiderate, dangerous and sheer folly IMO.

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, ceeceeDee said:

Well, I suppose if the Star Princess fire was mentioned he may well scoff that it was ancient history. However, there have been quite a few fires since (I mentioned that one because of the fatality). Indeed, in June 2023 P&O Australia's Pacific Adventure had a room/balcony fire just outside of Sydney. (My understanding is that it was contained to just that one cabin, but resulted in a couple of thousand passengers being jolted out of bed to spend several hours at their muster stations from around 3am). I haven't seen the official investigation report, but scuttlebutt indicated that it was caused by a cigarette. The point is that smoking anywhere other than the designated smoking areas is inconsiderate, dangerous and sheer folly IMO.

And, again, I will say that the Star Princess fire was not proved to be from a cigarette.

 

As the Pacific Adventure fire happened in May of this year, I would not expect a MAIB report for about a year.  But "scuttlebutt" cannot even agree on the severity of the fire (one or more cabins) or where it was (bed in cabin, or balcony).  For every reported fire blamed on a cigarette (and there are very few), I've seen others that are definitively caused by things like draping something over the bedside lamp.

 

Yes, cigarette smoking can cause a fire, but given the fire retardant construction of even the upholstery on cruise ships, it becomes less of a threat than on land.

 

And, while there have been several fires on cruise ships since the Star Princess, I cannot think of but one or two that happened in passenger cabins (the lamp incident I mention), nor any that were found to be by cigarette.  If you know of any, please let me know.

[CruiserBruce]

Basing statements and arguments on "scuttlebutt" is not helpful to the situation.

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

Basing statements and arguments on "scuttlebutt" is not helpful to the situation.

 

Indeed. 

 

Many more fires start in the ship's laundry and kitchen than in any passenger cabin. Where is the professed concern about that?

[chengkp75]

31 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Indeed. 

 

Many more fires start in the ship's laundry and kitchen than in any passenger cabin. Where is the professed concern about that?

Yeah, we can ban all laundry, guests get towels and sheets once a cruise, and all food will be microwaved.

[cruisemom42]

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Yeah, we can ban all laundry, guests get towels and sheets once a cruise, and all food will be microwaved.

 

...but didn't we just have a long thread about microwaves on another board??  🤣

[jsn55]

This kinda reinforces my opinion that the whole hysteria about smoking is just that ... so many other awful things in life, but everybody just screams about the smokers.  People don't realize that they're being brainwashed by the media.  

[Aquahound]

1 hour ago, jsn55 said:

This kinda reinforces my opinion that the whole hysteria about smoking is just that ... so many other awful things in life, but everybody just screams about the smokers.  People don't realize that they're being brainwashed by the media.  

 

I'm not being brainwashed by anyone.  I can't stand the stench.  Period.  Why is that so hard to comprehend?

[Ricks]

On a 2 week cruise, first day guy lights up next to me on his balcony, I go out there and tell him… you already know your not suppose to smoke out here, besides that Im not spending the next 2 weeks smelling your smoke in my room and when I sit out here. This is what’s going to happen, either you put it out or I call down stairs and tell them your smoking in your room and on balcony. You can deal with them, you dont want to know the other option. Well he didn’t say much…. Put it out….. next day did it again…. I called down services and tell them he keeps on smoking….. they went up there with security and gave him a fine for smoking in the room. Told him he will be put off the ship if they come up again….  He wasn’t too happy with me….. Being 6’4” 250lbs  husky guy….  Didn’t really care…. Just knew I was not putting up with that….. I absolutely hate the smell….. on other cruise people below was smoking call services they came up and went on my balcony till they seen who was doing it and went down to them….. Sorry people that do smoke… I have no tolerance for it…. Im not brain washed….. 

[ceeceeDee]

With regards to the Star Princess, fire. I have read some time ago the MAIB report of the incident and it was concluded that "the fire started on an external stateroom balcony ........ probably caused by a discarded cigarette .. smouldering for 20 minutes before flames developed". Whilst 'probably' is not confirmation that a cigarette was definitely the culprit, the report still points in that direction.

As for the Pacific Adventure, I used the word 'scuttlebutt' deliberately to indicate that there was no proof that fire was started by a cigarette and I am definitely not saying that it was. I was not on Pacific Adventure at the time (though I was, ironically, on board her sister ship Pacific Encounter - the former Star Princess) so I don't know anything other than what was reported in the media which I tend to take with a grain of salt.

Whatever the actual cause of those particular two incidents, the point I was making is that smoking on a ship's balcony is dangerous, is banned, is inconsiderate and totally irresponsible which was the thrust of the initial post in this thread.

[navybankerteacher]

19 hours ago, jsn55 said:

This kinda reinforces my opinion that the whole hysteria about smoking is just that ... so many other awful things in life, but everybody just screams about the smokers.  People don't realize that they're being brainwashed by the media.  

Reminding people of the obvious: that smoking is not only harmful to one’s health, it is also an imposition on others, is not brainwashing.  As a former smoker for many years, I am aware of how hard it is to give it up.  I can understand the reluctance to accept anti-smoking commentary as anything more than media hype;   but… seriously?

[JRG]

------------------------End of Report---------------------

 

       (please do not burn after reading)

 

[ldubs]

On 11/3/2023 at 10:33 AM, jsn55 said:

This kinda reinforces my opinion that the whole hysteria about smoking is just that ... so many other awful things in life, but everybody just screams about the smokers.  People don't realize that they're being brainwashed by the media.  

 

No. No. No. No.   I sincerely hope I'm misinterpreting your comment.  

[ldubs]

On 11/2/2023 at 8:41 AM, jsn55 said:

This must have been quite annoying.  But how else is the ship going to take some action if you don't present proof?  The ship isn't going to assign a crew member to 'watch your neighbor's balcony'.  How do you know the 'steward was well aware of this'?   A cigarette takes about 5 minutes to smoke, so if that's annoying, you'll need to take some action.  Your neighbor was obviously not concerned, since he just blatantly denied that he was smoking when your husband talked to him.  So no hope that he'd change his ways.  

 

Toss a bucket of water on them!    Best get rid of the bucket so the evidence is gone.  😀

[ldubs]

On 11/2/2023 at 6:55 PM, navybankerteacher said:

Sadly, the lines do not want to drive away a segment of their market - regardless of how stupid and weak-willed they are- and continue to permit smokers on board.  The sad fact is that anyone stupid/weak enough to remain hooked is going to continue his assault on his neighbors’ health.

 

Not to mention a number of the crew are smokers too.   

[CPT Trips]

On 11/3/2023 at 11:08 AM, chengkp75 said:

all food will be microwaved.

And hopefully no one will leave anything metallic in the microwave.

 

On 11/3/2023 at 1:33 PM, jsn55 said:

This kinda reinforces my opinion that the whole hysteria about smoking is just that ... so many other awful things in life, but everybody just screams about the smokers.  People don't realize that they're being brainwashed by the media.  

Surely you recall all the brainwashing, media  manipulation, perjured testimony to Congress that the tobacco industry and their media consultants engaged in during years past. They actually “fessed up” to all of it and settled suits brought against them by numerous states. 

[sparks1093]

I took jsn55's comment as a reference to the fact that whenever a cause of a fire can't be identified a cigarette is blamed and the fact that most people overestimate the fire danger of cigarettes. I served on three different ships in the Navy and only recall one or two small incidents caused by cigarettes and certainly no large fires. 

[chengkp75]

13 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

I took jsn55's comment as a reference to the fact that whenever a cause of a fire can't be identified a cigarette is blamed and the fact that most people overestimate the fire danger of cigarettes. I served on three different ships in the Navy and only recall one or two small incidents caused by cigarettes and certainly no large fires. 

That's the way I take it.  Yes, there are health issues with smoking.  Yes, there are objectionable smells from smoking.  But, in my professional opinion, smoking on a ship's balcony is no more dangerous than smoking anywhere else on the planet.